Dirk kuyt - Peace everyone

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:34 pm

As i said in an earlier post so far more goals than other right sided players in the prem - think its 5 so far this season , more than valencia,swp,lennon ashley young .
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Postby bigmick » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:05 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:As i said in an earlier post so far more goals than other right sided players in the prem - think its 5 so far this season , more than valencia,swp,lennon ashley young .

In fairness it's not as simple as saying he is "producing" simply because he's scored a few goals. This season he's been very poor, and only the most one eyed or clueless would deny that.

It's worth remembering that he's playing right side of midfield, and as such his job isn't just to get his knee onto one that's going in, or his erse, it's to contruibute to the flow of the team, to pass it, to move, to create. I know he's a failed striker, but it's not just about goals where he plays now. The argument that he is "producing" is the same as sticking the Greek at right midfield and then talking about how many headers he has won from corners.

To go on and then compare Kuyt to the likes of Ashley Young as a wide midfielder runs the risk of turning the discussion into a bit of a laugh to be honest. The simple fact of the matter is that each and every time his goal runs dry up, the rest of his game comes into sharp focus. The reason why it comes into sharp focus is because his contribution other than to score is negligable save for lots of running around.
Last edited by bigmick on Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:12 pm

Hold the horses - im comparing end product which im pretty sure it what its all about in the game of football - scoring and creating goals which help win games - is that not correct ? he was doing it early season hence the 5 goals and 4 assists .

As i said the likes of young,swp lennon etc may well be more skillfull and pacey etc etc etc but end product wise who produces more ?

Kuyt along with the REST of the team maybe bar torres is in poor form - every bloody one of them not just Kuyt .

Kuyt has proved his doubters wrong on many occasion and will continue to do so and those people will disappear into the woodwork again just like they did last season failing to give credit where its due : disclaimer not aimed at you specifically , but they will appear once again when he has another quiet run of form . Every player has them - its natural .
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:37 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Hold the horses - im comparing end product which im pretty sure it what its all about in the game of football - scoring and creating goals which help win games - is that not correct ? he was doing it early season hence the 5 goals and 4 assists .

As i said the likes of young,swp lennon etc may well be more skillfull and pacey etc etc etc but end product wise who produces more ?

Kuyt along with the REST of the team maybe bar torres is in poor form - every bloody one of them not just Kuyt .

Kuyt has proved his doubters wrong on many occasion and will continue to do so and those people will disappear into the woodwork again just like they did last season failing to give credit where its due : disclaimer not aimed at you specifically , but they will appear once again when he has another quiet run of form . Every player has them - its natural .

No doubt Kuyt will have a scoring run again to save him, but IMO that is not enough. Kuyt players awful for 60% of the season every year, then produces a run of goals and is hailed as the most productive right sided player in the league! yes he scores a few, but what else does he bring to the side? his game has so many negatives, and he really does drag the attack down with him when he is struggling. In a team that plays with two defensive midfielders with extremely limited attacking threat is it right to add to that with a right sided player who dosnt have much ability either? were struggling for a reason, and the midfield is obviusly very badly balanced at the moment, i cant see how any one cant see that.

If Benayoun got the chance Kuyt got out on the right side he would score the same amount of goals, and be a much better cog in the running of the machine.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:09 pm

I think the simplest and easiest thing to see is what the players say about both for his club and his country - they are the beneficaries of his work and they tell  us how an important part of the cog he is to the team - they play and train with him day in day out - they have nothing but high praise for him and they are in a better position to judge than any one of us .

As a right sided midfielder his job is to attack and defend and create chances and pop up with goals - he does that beyond belief as well as giving johnson the chance to attack as much as possible - now thats a point that gets overlooked - having kuyt their is a reason for getting johnson - put a winger their or yossi their and all of a sudden johnson is exposed . You say he does nothing when he isnt scoring -well he is working his socks of for the team - his team mates and fellow pros appreciate all that work and i know for sure torres appreciates the chances kuyt creates for him - in fact i think ngog does after his little ball to lucas which helped him score that crucial goal against the mancs - oh wasnt kuyt also involved in the first goal as well :O

His fellow players and manager and coaches value and appreciate what he brings to the team - its a shame some fans dont but lucky for us they are in the small minority as match days they guy is praised to high heaven in the ground - even when he doesnt score .
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:13 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:I think the simplest and easiest thing to see is what the players say about both for his club and his country - they are the beneficaries of his work and they tell  us how an important part of the cog he is to the team - they play and train with him day in day out - they have nothing but high praise for him and they are in a better position to judge than any one of us .

As a right sided midfielder his job is to attack and defend and create chances and pop up with goals - he does that beyond belief as well as giving johnson the chance to attack as much as possible - now thats a point that gets overlooked - having kuyt their is a reason for getting johnson - put a winger their or yossi their and all of a sudden johnson is exposed . You say he does nothing when he isnt scoring -well he is working his socks of for the team - his team mates and fellow pros appreciate all that work and i know for sure torres appreciates the chances kuyt creates for him - in fact i think ngog does after his little ball to lucas which helped him score that crucial goal against the mancs - oh wasnt kuyt also involved in the first goal as well :O

His fellow players and manager and coaches value and appreciate what he brings to the team - its a shame some fans dont but lucky for us they are in the small minority as match days they guy is praised to high heaven in the ground - even when he doesnt score .

like his team mates are gonna slag him off are they? look he's an average player and anyone with a brain can see that. He's not bad, from time to time he's good, but lets get serious here for one minute, you talk about him like he's one of the top players in the league when the fact is he is a run off the mill pro, a club like Liverpool should be doing much better.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:19 pm

Maybe not slag him but they arent going to give him as high as praise as they do are they ???

Like i said his team mates realise his importance to the team and what he brings to the team and his end product proves those points well and truely beyond doubt . Kuyt is far from average - now no one is calling him world class etc but he is certainly more than average - the  guy is a starter for us and for one of the best national teams because of his importance to that team - his managers recognise that .

A club like liverpool have had plenty of pros that people didnt rate but they sure  as hell over the years showed how important they were to the team .

Last season he was a vital part of us getting to second and our best season in many years .

And the point about Johnson is extremely important in the part kuyt plays in the team . Kuyt enables him to go rampaging .
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:26 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:And the point about Johnson is extremely important in the part kuyt plays in the team . Kuyt enables him to go rampaging .

and hows that exactly? Johnson is an attacking right back and would do the same thing regardless of who played in front of him. Its not like Kuyt stays back and covers for him is it, when Johnson goes forward Kuyt usually goes into the box, so i dont see your point there.
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:29 pm

Because Kuyt covers for Johnson and also kuyts running opens up plenty of space for johnson to expose - its very clear to see whenever johnson is going forward with the ball and then when johnson is having to defend he isnt exposed a lot of the time like insua is - because kuyt is back their helping unlike yossi on the left or babel or even reira .
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:24 am

Benny The Noon wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Yet out produces most other right sided players in the prem - how the hell does someone who is average or limited keep doing that Image

so you think that kuyt is the best right winger in the prem?

No i never said that did i .

Yes their is more skillful more pacey wingers in the prem but for me the main thing is end product .

Plenty of times players like lennon and even pennant etc look lovely dancing round defenders then when it comes to a end product it is non exsitant hence little assists small amount of goals .

So while Kuyt maybe not the quickest,or the most skillful but for some reason with him being so limited and awful he seems to produce a lot more than the others in terms of end product which is the most important aspect .

end product  :laugh:
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Postby supersub » Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:50 am

:sleep
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THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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Postby kazza » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:14 am

bigmick wrote:This season he's been very poor, and only the most one eyed or clueless would deny that.

Kuyte has not been very poor, he may not be as good as he was last year but he has not been "very poor". He runs all over the field, covers players when the other team is in possession, he is passing and tracking back when he has too, he helps Johnson (when he plays) push forward and is strong on the ball and actually hard to take the ball off as well as the five goals and four assists. NOT "very poor", Dossena and Veronin have been very poor and Kuyt has been much better than them.

You always do this Mick, you make a bold statement then follow it with "only an idiot would disagree" to somehow intimidate anyone else from disagreeing. Frankly only an idiot would agree.

Is there anything you like about the team?
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Postby bigmick » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:30 am

:sleep
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Postby kazza » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:02 am

bigmick wrote: :sleep

Ahh, the old fallback when you have no case. I'm surprised you left out the "deary me"
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Postby Sabre » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:06 am

When things went better Kuyt never was among the first to get praises.

For me Kuyt has been poor, in a good extent, because the context of the team has been poor.

I don't think Kuyt is one of the main culprits of our situation, regardless I can think of better players to cover his position.
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