Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Admittedly it's all speck-you-lay-shun, but it really does look like Masherano wants to leave and that he wants to get gone as soon as possible. It's hardly surprising I guess when you consider the reports about his wife and child being in a different country, and it may well be the case that we simply have to bite the bullet and get the best fee we can.

The team which stormed to the top of the league last season though has now seen three of its number openly agitating for a move. Arbeloa seemingly made it known that he wanted to return to Spain before his departure, while Alonso's desire to go home was widely trailed before he actually upped sticks and left. In fairness, far from having to replace the players "from the bargain basement" the manager was able to invest all of the Alonso fee plus a few million in order to get the two replacements, Aquilani and Johnson.

The new signings have shown though that while it is possible given funds to sign good players, obviously it is unreasonable to expect them to instantly gel together. There have been instances where whole groups of new players have instantly gelled and been very successful in the Premier League, but in the main if you disrupt and remodel it takes time. Even huge funds and largely locally sourced players don't seem to be able to guarantee instant success, as Man City are now showing. So unless the circumstances are very unusual, selling first team regulars is difficult.

Is it just coincidence that players are seemingly looking for moves, and is this the end of the trickle? Obviously you'd expect blokes like Dossena and Babel to agitate for a move as they aren't getting a game. That said, other clubs seem to be able to keep a squad reasonably happy but it is fairly normal for players who don't play to get gradually more frustrated. Is it because of the owner situation at the club, perhaps players are not convinced that with the current structure we have a good chance of success. Perhaps we don't pay high enough wages, players can look to the Eurozone and see richer pickings elsewhere what with changes to the tax regime and the like. Or is it maybe that players no longer believe in the project, or perhaps they are tired of the same faces and same techniques?

Whatever it is, it's not a good sign when first team regualrs are looking for the exit door. Hopefully Masherano is the last one who openly seeks a move away, and whatever the reasons are hopefully they are addressed.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:26 pm

Quote:In fairness, far from having to replace the players "from the bargain basement" the manager was able to invest all of the Alonso fee plus a few million in order to get the two replacements, Aquilani and Johnson.

So are you saying Mick that all the money we got from our sales went on 2 players ,

Quote:Or is it maybe that players no longer believe in the project, or perhaps they are tired of the same faces and same techniques?

After a couple of seasons

Quote:whatever the reasons are hopefully they are addressed.

The only way there gonna be address imo is by more funding to bring the new quality in that will keep the top players here , Have you not thought that some of them could be p.issed off at being told an hearing that were going after such an such only for the finance not to be there , Do you honestly think we would have bought the greek if money was there , Or is this just another well maybe the players are fed up with Rafa an his teqniques.

by **Madmax** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:51 pm

If we don't win nothing ina few years i could see torres opting for a move aswel!

by **JC_81** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:07 pm

Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players... eventually a lot of them want to go home/ to a country with a more familiar culture or try their luck in another foreign league. Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa and now perhaps Mascherano all probably belong to this category. Sometimes you can't really blame them and if Mascherano's reported social circumstances are correct then I certainly don't hold it against him.

We're not the only ones affected. Arsenal lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Henry and Vieira while they were at their peaks. United lost Ronaldo and Chelsea lost Robben. I'm sure there are countless others.

What can you do about it? Well winning trophies would help keep these players around longer I feel, but isn't always possible. Building a team with a strong British core is another possibility, but again it's difficult and expensive to do. You might also have to accept players of less quality. Basically it's something we will just have to learn to accept in modern football unfortunately.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:17 pm

If the coincidence is supposed to be with our form, then no.

Two of the three - Alonso and Arbeloa - left after our best ever PL campaign. Clearly then not simply because of a lack of progress on the pitch. In Alonso's case the personal element probably swung it, and with Arbeloa more simply the fact that it was Real Madrid who came calling.

The speculation surrounding Masch originated if not last season, then in the summer, so again it doesn't point toward the suggestion that he's 'agitating' for a move simply because of where we are in the league - though that reality may have hastened it.

In the wider scheme of things, with the way we've been going, you wouldn't dismiss the possibility of key players becoming unsettled because of our form, but for the time being I wouldn't expect any others to start angling for a move on that basis. I think their immediate focus will be on dragging us out of the mire because as much as much has been said in the press, and as much is implied by their demeanour on the pitch. Two of our 'key' players (granted, Aquilani..) only joined in the summer, I can't see either of them 'agitating' for a move any time soon.

by **Igor Zidane** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:39 pm

When mascherano goes, not if .Take it from me . We wiill be officially a selling club . Buying potential and selling at a massive profit , Alonso ,mascherano , and probably torres next year . Then we buy players of lesser value just to keep us in or around the top four and sell again . That's what the yanks are after and that's what there getting . Get used to it , some of us have been banging on about this for a few years now . Maybe once Torres goes some will start to take some notice .

What was the quote from hicks , something like " it's not about winning things it's about brand loyalty " .

Mascherano wants to go, make no mistake and it's got feck all to do with Rafa . He's had his head turned by his agent and by Barca and he's fell for it hook line and sinker .

Does anyone think that rafa will see the majority of that money ? He'll get half if he's lucky and he'll have to juggle the squad on that basis once again .

If we sell mascherano to Barca for the reported fee ( i doubt it will be that much by the way ) £36 million . Do you know how much rafa's net spend will be from when the yanks took over , 3years in Jan '10 .

A big fat £0 , waddayathink now.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:44 pm

But noone took any notice Igor when a few on here were shouting from the rooftops that this would happen, with these two, I can see a few heads coming out the sand if Javier goes mate , Too fecking late iimo

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:54 pm

What worries me most is what Alonso said. He is not the type of player who slags off a team for no reason, so when he says something I think it carries a bit of weight. He said something along the lines of....... "the team has changed too much since 2006, and things are'nt the same".

I think one of the hardest things in football is getting a good team spirit among the players. With all the changes both of staff and players, and the problems with the owners I wonder whether the moral and spirit of the club is not what it should be. We have seen heads dropping or being shaken when players have come off, rumours of blazing rows between key players in the dressing room, and even on the pitch things have been tense at times.

Obviously our troubled start to the season hasn't helped , but maybe its just a sign of problems within the club rather than just loss of form.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:05 pm

I dont think its because he wants to go. He has everything he needs here. Its someone else who doesnt want to stay in Liverpool

by **tubby** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:11 pm

john craig wrote:Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players... eventually a lot of them want to go home/ to a country with a more familiar culture or try their luck in another foreign league. Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa and now perhaps Mascherano all probably belong to this category. Sometimes you can't really blame them and if Mascherano's reported social circumstances are correct then I certainly don't hold it against him.

We're not the only ones affected. Arsenal lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Henry and Vieira while they were at their peaks. United lost Ronaldo and Chelsea lost Robben. I'm sure there are countless others.

What can you do about it? Well winning trophies would help keep these players around longer I feel, but isn't always possible. Building a team with a strong British core is another possibility, but again it's difficult and expensive to do. You might also have to accept players of less quality. Basically it's something we will just have to learn to accept in modern football unfortunately.

Nail on the head.

I just wish we had more finincial clout. I can't help but feel if we were bringing in more quality on par with Masch, Stevie and Torres then these players wouldn't be so quick to want to leave.

As happy as he makes the fans I can see Torres eventually wanting to leave too.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:15 pm

Sir Roger wrote:I dont think its because he wants to go. He has everything he needs here. Its someone else who doesnt want to stay in Liverpool

Well she should of realised that when she married a footballer. :;):

by **europian-kings** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:15 pm

bavlondon wrote:
john craig wrote:Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players... eventually a lot of them want to go home/ to a country with a more familiar culture or try their luck in another foreign league. Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa and now perhaps Mascherano all probably belong to this category. Sometimes you can't really blame them and if Mascherano's reported social circumstances are correct then I certainly don't hold it against him.

We're not the only ones affected. Arsenal lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Henry and Vieira while they were at their peaks. United lost Ronaldo and Chelsea lost Robben. I'm sure there are countless others.

What can you do about it? Well winning trophies would help keep these players around longer I feel, but isn't always possible. Building a team with a strong British core is another possibility, but again it's difficult and expensive to do. You might also have to accept players of less quality. Basically it's something we will just have to learn to accept in modern football unfortunately.

Nail on the head.

I just wish we had more finincial clout. I can't help but feel if we were bringing in more quality on par with Masch, Stevie and Torres then these players wouldn't be so quick to want to leave.

As happy as he makes the fans I can see Torres eventually wanting to leave too.

Wonder where he would go if god forbid, he were to leave.

Real Madrid is a deffo no no for him, plus i think i remember him saying if he were to go back to spain it would only be to atletico later on in his career.

What with Italys league not being as strong as it once was, it leaves the premier league as the last realistic option.

by **JC_81** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:20 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:When mascherano goes, not if .Take it from me . We wiill be officially a selling club . Buying potential and selling at a massive profit , Alonso ,mascherano , and probably torres next year . Then we buy players of lesser value just to keep us in or around the top four and sell again . That's what the yanks are after and that's what there getting . Get used to it , some of us have been banging on about this for a few years now . Maybe once Torres goes some will start to take some notice .

What was the quote from hicks , something like " it's not about winning things it's about brand loyalty " .

Mascherano wants to go, make no mistake and it's got feck all to do with Rafa . He's had his head turned by his agent and by Barca and he's fell for it hook line and sinker .

Does anyone think that rafa will see the majority of that money ? He'll get half if he's lucky and he'll have to juggle the squad on that basis once again .

If we sell mascherano to Barca for the reported fee ( i doubt it will be that much by the way ) £36 million . Do you know how much rafa's net spend will be from when the yanks took over , 3years in Jan '10 .

A big fat £0 , waddayathink now.

Can we really blame the yanks on this one though mate?

Alonso wanted to go, Mascherano wants to go. It's not the yanks forcing us to sell them. Cu.nts though they are, I really don't see how we can blame them for these two wanting to leave, not directly anyway.

If as you say we sell Mascherano and Rafa doesn't get to reinvest the cash in the squad... then that's a completely different scenario.

by **tubby** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:21 pm

europian-kings wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
john craig wrote:Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players... eventually a lot of them want to go home/ to a country with a more familiar culture or try their luck in another foreign league. Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa and now perhaps Mascherano all probably belong to this category. Sometimes you can't really blame them and if Mascherano's reported social circumstances are correct then I certainly don't hold it against him.

We're not the only ones affected. Arsenal lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Henry and Vieira while they were at their peaks. United lost Ronaldo and Chelsea lost Robben. I'm sure there are countless others.

What can you do about it? Well winning trophies would help keep these players around longer I feel, but isn't always possible. Building a team with a strong British core is another possibility, but again it's difficult and expensive to do. You might also have to accept players of less quality. Basically it's something we will just have to learn to accept in modern football unfortunately.

Nail on the head.

I just wish we had more finincial clout. I can't help but feel if we were bringing in more quality on par with Masch, Stevie and Torres then these players wouldn't be so quick to want to leave.

As happy as he makes the fans I can see Torres eventually wanting to leave too.

Wonder where he would go if god forbid, he were to leave.

Real Madrid is a deffo no no for him, plus i think i remember him saying if he were to go back to spain it would only be to atletico later on in his career.

What with Italys league not being as strong as it once was, it leaves the premier league as the last realistic option.

Probably Barca. Or maybe a team in Italy. He even said a while back (quotes and all) that he wants to play in Italy and even Germany before he retires. Anyway not trying to start something here but John makes a good point and we have to be prepared for this possibility with all our foreign players.

I guess just pray that we get a decent replacement or Masch. If I start hearing from Rafa that Lucas is becoming an important player for us or we have Plessis and Spearing, I will start to worry.

That is of course if any of this is true.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:41 pm

europian-kings wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
john craig wrote:Unfortunately this is what happens when you rely on foreign players... eventually a lot of them want to go home/ to a country with a more familiar culture or try their luck in another foreign league. Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa and now perhaps Mascherano all probably belong to this category. Sometimes you can't really blame them and if Mascherano's reported social circumstances are correct then I certainly don't hold it against him.

We're not the only ones affected. Arsenal lost Anelka, Overmars, Petit, Henry and Vieira while they were at their peaks. United lost Ronaldo and Chelsea lost Robben. I'm sure there are countless others.

What can you do about it? Well winning trophies would help keep these players around longer I feel, but isn't always possible. Building a team with a strong British core is another possibility, but again it's difficult and expensive to do. You might also have to accept players of less quality. Basically it's something we will just have to learn to accept in modern football unfortunately.

Nail on the head.

I just wish we had more finincial clout. I can't help but feel if we were bringing in more quality on par with Masch, Stevie and Torres then these players wouldn't be so quick to want to leave.

As happy as he makes the fans I can see Torres eventually wanting to leave too.

Wonder where he would go if god forbid, he were to leave.

Real Madrid is a deffo no no for him, plus i think i remember him saying if he were to go back to spain it would only be to atletico later on in his career.

What with Italys league not being as strong as it once was, it leaves the premier league as the last realistic option.

Maybe we should ask his bird where she wants to live?

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