Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:01 am

As one or two posters have commented, we have a trickly little patch of matches coming up, but it is followed by some very winnable ones. I've put the matches below over the next few weeks, and I was wondfering if people thought there was a cut off in terms of their minimum standard which they would like to achieve. It's all very well saying games are "must win", or saying that Rafa's job doesn't and shouldn't depend on one match, but how should we be looking to go if we're serious about getting into the top four?

Here's our upcoming fixtures:

Liverpool v Man City
Everton v Liverpool
Blackburn v Liverpool
Liverpool v Arsenal
Liverpool v Wigan
Portsmouth v Liverpool
Liverpool v Wolves

Now fairly obviously, the next two are big matches. I ask this in all seriousness, would Rafa survive two more defeats against Man City AND Everton? My feeling is that he probably wouldn't, but that he probably won't have to as we won't lose the matches. If we can come through the first four fixtures with a couple of wins and a couple of draws, before winning the last three my guess is we'd be somewhere in and around the top four by then. That would be 17 points out of 21 and would be a decent return. Something like 4 wins, 2 draws and a defeat though would only be 14 points and very likely see us dropping further back. 15 should be our minimum target I think, and beating our main rivals Man City in the first match would be an absolutely huge result.

Any thoughts?

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:34 am

17 out 21 pts is championship winning form, but it's by no means beyond us, particularly given the opposition/home advantage. I'm not sure about a 'minimum standard' though because sometimes 'must wins' aren't really must wins, particularly when it's a race for the top four as the likelihood of a turnaround is significantly greater (e.g. Arsenal-Villa last season). We were supposed to bounce back with a win against Birmingham, we didn't. Man City were supposed to hammer Burney the other weekend, they didn't. Stoke beat Spurs at WHL etc... Upsets will always happen while they rarely figure in our estimations. They should though because we know they can have a bearing. For example, had Fulham not beaten the Manc's at Craven Cottage last season, we might not have had the opportunity to get ourselves back into the title race. They did and we did.

by **Dazzer** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:46 am

Well I wish I could share you confidence about next 2 games mick , City have a good team and I think in squad strenght they have more then us and with so many key players out its going to be instresting one to say the least.I am not sure about Everton its always game that can go either way no matter how well each team is playing.I would like to think we can win that one as always.If we did tho lose next 2 games It really would be panic stations and I think most fans would agree then Rafas time is up if that is best for club or not I wouldn't like to say.I personaly feel there its never the best thing to sack a manager mid season but it has been done in past and worked out well.I also think from now till end of season if Rafa does get sacked it hardly would have been knee jerk reaction.

If we wanna stay in top 4 we going to need at least 15 points from 21 I would say or 12 would be ok till we get over our injury problems but lets hope we can bag at least 18 because we are due a run of form soon.

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:54 am

Struggle to look as long term as 6-7 games to be honest.

I am as disallusioned as i have been in years but lookin at the fixtures i feel...

man city at home :- we will win...just

everton away - draw

Then the others am not sure.

But i feel 4 points against city and everton will be enough.
I dont think we are a bad side, just one thats so short on confidence and one that seems to have lost the will to fight when they go behind.

Hand on heart though, 4 points imo from these 2 games i feel we will take and that will be enough.

For now...

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:57 am

Regarding Rafa's future I think the most important game is a match Liverpool won't even be playing in, Fiorentina vs Lyons. If that goes against us then we may see a change of manager at Christmas if we don't hit form soon.

I don't think even if we lost the next 4 league games (which we won't) that it would see Rafa walk or sacked.

Get knocked out of the CL early AND look unlikely to get a top 4 place and that WOULD be enough to see him walk/sacked imo.

As for the next few games I think with the injuries and the distraction of the CL, we will have done well if we get 15 or so points, even with the 3 easy games at the end.

So much now depends on getting Gerrard and Torres fit till Christmas and then hopefully substantually strengthening the squad.

by **Dazzer** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:02 am

Good point saint , I wonder what going out of CL early and not looking like getting in top 4 might do to owners putting Rafa aside for a moment ?

Do we all think they will panic sell ? because lets face it they hardly have the funds to buy us out of trouble.I am sure they will really start to worry about if thier investment will go down the pan or not.

by **The_Rock** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:30 am

bigmick wrote:My feeling is that he probably wouldn't, but that he probably won't have to as we won't lose the matches.

You sure about that ? Although mancity have a somewhat weak defence......it will still be better than us as carra is suspended.

And then for the derby .....like they say it can go either way... With the luck we are having and that ever$hit are a very phyisical side who will press our players at every opportunity. If we don't go with a quality team against them...who can attack with precision.....it will be a very hard game against them.

There is something wrong with the team now...Its like the players don't believe they can win.....Even Benitez seems to be going with this theory .

I can tell you one thing for sure....if we are gonna start with lucas & mascherano midfield with kuyt on the right and babel on the left.....with Ngog up top.....we won't win many games for sure.

by **Sabre** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:44 am

Any thoughts?

17 out of 21? where do I have to sign up?

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:48 am

s@int wrote:Regarding Rafa's future I think the most important game is a match Liverpool won't even be playing in, Fiorentina vs Lyons. If that goes against us then we may see a change of manager at Christmas if we don't hit form soon.

I don't think even if we lost the next 4 league games (which we won't) that it would see Rafa walk or sacked.

A little dicky bird has told me he will be leaving at the END of the season no matter how things pan out, his mrs will have had enough of the sh!t he is getting, Its not worth it and its not fair his health and family life are suffering from it.

by **Judge** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:49 am

LFC2007 wrote:17 out 21 pts is championship winning form,

Sat 11th April 2009 | Premiership
4-0 v Blackburn (H)
Torres (0) Torres (0) Agger (0) Ngog (0)

Tue 21st April 2009 | Premiership
4-4 v Arsenal (H)
Torres (49) Benayoun (56) Torres (72) Benayoun (90)

Sat 25th April 2009 | Premiership
3-1 v Hull City (A)
Alonso (45) Kuyt (63) Kuyt (89)

Sat 02nd May 2009 | Premiership
3-0 v Newcastle (H)
Benayoun (22) Kuyt (28) Leiva (87)

Sat 09th May 2009 | Premiership
3-0 v West Ham (A)
Gerrard (2) Gerrard (38) Babel (84)

Sun 17th May 2009 | Premiership
2-0 v West Brom (A)
Gerrard (28) Kuyt (65)

Sun 24th May 2009 | Premiership
3-1 v Tottenham (H)
Torres (31) own goal (64) Benayoun (81)

that was our last 7 games of last season, gaining 19 pts from 21. so 17pts out of 21 is not championship winning form it would appear, as we still fell short last year !!

such is competition is the premier league that only the winners get all the glory, and those who faulter go onto to be 2nd place also rans

by **Anfield's Finest** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:55 am

Man City at home - win. Even we have won a League game more recently than them bunch of losers. :cool:

Seriously though these games are massive - 7 games 6 wins and a draw at home to Arsenal.

by **Benny The Noon** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Well money wise it seems the owners only budget for us to be in the group stages after that its a bonus - so cant see him being sacked if we go out of the cl and with the league they will prob judge him come end of the season (as they should ) if we are out of the top 4 then they may well decide to make a change (god help us who they pick ) .

by **made in UK** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:57 pm

Ciggy wrote:
s@int wrote:Regarding Rafa's future I think the most important game is a match Liverpool won't even be playing in, Fiorentina vs Lyons. If that goes against us then we may see a change of manager at Christmas if we don't hit form soon.

I don't think even if we lost the next 4 league games (which we won't) that it would see Rafa walk or sacked.

A little dicky bird has told me he will be leaving at the END of the season no matter how things pan out, his mrs will have had enough of the sh!t he is getting, Its not worth it and its not fair his health and family life are suffering from it.

Had to take a second glance at that post, as I thought it was lakes who posted it at first.

by **Owzat** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:13 pm

If we want to stay where we are then 10-13 is what we must aim for, if we want to fight our way back into the title race then we need to pick up maximum.

But for our start to the season we'd be thinking Arsenal at home is the only tough game there, the rest are either home bankers or not that tough away fixtures. bitters away will be testing because it is the derby, not because they're any kop. Pompey and rovers are down near the bottom aren't they, nothing special even when in decent form. That we're not instantly thinking the only dropped points will be possibly Arsenal home says it all, rather than thinking 19-21 points we're lowering our hopes come expectations

by **LFC2007** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:39 pm

Judge wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:17 out 21 pts is championship winning form,

Sat 11th April 2009 | Premiership
4-0 v Blackburn (H)
Torres (0) Torres (0) Agger (0) Ngog (0)

Tue 21st April 2009 | Premiership
4-4 v Arsenal (H)
Torres (49) Benayoun (56) Torres (72) Benayoun (90)

Sat 25th April 2009 | Premiership
3-1 v Hull City (A)
Alonso (45) Kuyt (63) Kuyt (89)

Sat 02nd May 2009 | Premiership
3-0 v Newcastle (H)
Benayoun (22) Kuyt (28) Leiva (87)

Sat 09th May 2009 | Premiership
3-0 v West Ham (A)
Gerrard (2) Gerrard (38) Babel (84)

Sun 17th May 2009 | Premiership
2-0 v West Brom (A)
Gerrard (28) Kuyt (65)

Sun 24th May 2009 | Premiership
3-1 v Tottenham (H)
Torres (31) own goal (64) Benayoun (81)

that was our last 7 games of last season, gaining 19 pts from 21. so 17pts out of 21 is not championship winning form it would appear, as we still fell short last year !!

such is competition is the premier league that only the winners get all the glory, and those who faulter go onto to be 2nd place also rans

No, 19/21 pts is much better than Championship winning form. We couldn't keep close enough to that points rate over the course of the season - while the Manc's did marginally better in that respect - which is why they were first and we were second.

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