Liverpool FC Forum

by **kazza** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:20 am

bigmick wrote:
phil_cool wrote:Boo hoo BOO HOO I am not happy because the naughty people complain about Rafa.

Why not try watching that youtube video you keep posting Reg

I do see where you're comign from Phil I must admit.

Thailand wasn't it?

by **JC_81** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:40 pm

Let's be honest, it's just pretty hard to keep a lid on things at the moment. I for one lost the plot a bit after the Lyon game and came on here ranting and raving, which is fairly out of character.

Our form is terrible and chances of winning a major trophy are all but over by November, so it's difficult to be rational about things all the time.

I think the real frustration is that after such a good season last year things have gone pear shaped and none of us, Benitez included seemingly, can pin point exactly where we have gone wrong or come up with a fast solution. Things are going to get worse before they get better I fear.

by **Bammo** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:33 pm

Tensions are high because the team is poor. Debating Rafa is perfectly valid but it should be done in Rafa threads and it should be done in a reasonable manner.

Far too often people make well-thought out posts (both for and against arguments) which are then lost amongst childish name-calling. I know I'm not a prolific poster by any means but I'm getting fed up with putting effort into posts, doing research and getting sources only for it to suddenly be 3 pages back because of petty squabbling.

I've no idea how Mick has the stamina to write lengthy posts when they disappear so quickly :laugh:

Hopefully merging the threads into pro/anti will help but many well-respected posters are taking longer and longer breaks because of the name-calling overwhelming everything. It's everyone's responsibility to be mature in posting so that this place retains the quality that made it stand above other forums.

by **Dazzer** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:39 pm

I think Fans should be able to vent on their clubs forum , if a forum can serve its fans that duty that its already done a great thing.I found mostly when making any sort of arguement on what Rafa has or hasn't done well I would get people throwing insults at me before it had a chance to turn into a discussion.I would get 5-6 other as its called round here pro-Rafas or whatever saying I am clueless , talking sh*t or other things.Now if people had just starting talking to me about it they would have found me not to be total Anti-Rafa but instead labled me as this and totally ruined any chance for me or them to hold any sort of mature arguement.If any thing has got me angry on here that would have to be it.I am here just to talk about football not be in the World chamionship D*ck Swinging contest.

by **zarababe** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:15 am

Igor Zidane wrote:I'm taking a sabatical . doing my head in this site at the mo , infact everything to do with LFC is doing my head in . Truth hurts maybe ? i dunno !

yes-enjoying-mine-at-the-mo :upside:

same-ol-same-ol in this forum - "tornado hits stanley park its all RAFA'S FAULT"... :sleep

by **Number 9** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:44 am

Reg wrote:Tonyeh, I hope my above post answers your point - people CAN argue intelligently against Benitez and maybe they´re right, but lets not swamp the forum with 58 threads on the same subject. We have one T&T thread of 700 pages, lets have the same single 'We hate Rafa' thread and let that run to 700 pages. ie put all the shíte in a single thread!

by **big al** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:35 am

Reg an objective assessment of Rafa is beyond any Liverpool fan. I tried to make this point the other day but was accused of being patronising. Every Liverpool fan has a different perspective because we all have different experiences of the last 5 years. I recall the same discussion and arguements when Houllier was in charge few in the end remained faithful. I think this is a very easily solved issue what is required is a yard stick a measurement that will shout those who are wrong up. I ave already asked this question on here so perhaps we need to define it more clearly. At which point is Rafa failing. Is it 2 more defeats in the next 3 games, is it 3 in the next five, is it failing to get into europe is it finishing 4 from bottom is it relegation. There are die hard rafalites on here so I would ask them to give us a marker then we can shout the dissenters up if the marker is never reach. Is there someone cleaver out there who can give us the parameters of how to judge a manager. What exactly are we judging Rafa against. I disagree with some many things Rafa does but that doesent mean he's wrong I may be wrong but against what a can I measure him.

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:43 am

There are some people on here who take the defence of the manager into the realms of the ridiculous, as there are obviously some who blame him for everything as well. You only have to look on the man of the match thread against man Utd a couple of weeks back and see that quite a few people nominated Rafa. Nothing at all wrong in that of course as it was an excellent effort on his part. When we lose one though (or six), many of those same posters will insist "it's the players innit" or "it's all down to the owners".

I've tried a couple of times to get individual people to lay out exactly what they expect of a manager, but for obvious reasons there is extreme reluctance so to do. My "minimum standard" is that we should properly compete for the league each season and win trophies reasonably regualarly. That doesn't mean we have to get within four points of winning the league like we did last season, but it does mean we have to be up there and challenging, not out of it in October. Neither does it mean we have to win something every season, but if we didn't win anything again this season, four years without a trophy is too long.

There are some on here though who would find excuses were we to finish in the bottom half of the league, and I say that in all seriousness. Those same people accuse me of only being concerned about being proven right rather than the good of the club, and my view is that they themselves are often guilty of precisely the charge they are so fond of making.

by **Number 9** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:15 am

bigmick wrote:I think there's some good points on both sides here. Naturally I see things slightly different from Reg and Kazza, as most of the time the abuse which I see been meted out is by people staunchly in support of the manager rather than the other way around. I do think sometimes there's an over eagerness to question whether someone is a "real fan" or not rather than to debate the actual points being raised, and I can't get this "that's what being a supporter is all about" thing when people are asking us to just keep getting beat every week and be thankful for it. Equally the idea that "if you believe" etc etc is all very well, but I can't make myself believe something which I don't actually believe if you get my drift.

All that said though, there has been some over reaction to the bad spell on both sides. I actually don't think that many people are advocating sacking the manager, but one or two have gone over the top and are blaming him for absolutely everything. He isn't to blame for absolutely everything, just most things IMHO and sometimes a little perspective is needed.

Nobody though is perfect, and I certainly aren't as anybody who reads the forum knows. I did though try and have more of a discussion with lando than a row for a change on the Mourinho thread yesterday (and in fairness to him he came to the party as well) and perhaps we all need to do a bit more of that. A little bit less of "it's nothing to do with Rafa that we lost" or "it's Rafa's fault we haven't won five quadruples" and a little bit more of arguing from a sensible standpoint wouldn't go amiss.

Broadly I agree with anybodies attempts to pull the forum back onto an even keel, whether it's doable or not though is entirely a different matter.

Doable doable?

How many points are we off the top..remind me?
Is it over..are we out of it?Has a team NEVER came from being so many points behind and won?How many were UTD behind last year in December?You probably wont know cause you are a student of Mourinho and all his drama!

To see these boards and read the utter sh'ite YOU in particular come off with,one could be excused for thinking that we are a lost cause!WE ARE Fu*king NOT...we will be back..we will go on a run and we will be up there come May...Please dont patronise me with"I love your optomism"...just wait and see!

Very apt that its rememberance day as well..RIP each and every one...Id have hated to been in the trenches with you Micky...white flag boy,we would be either talking German or dead and you'd probably be making them tea with a POW badge on yer @rse!

One should not give up so easy!

:;):

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:24 am

It's not a bad post Barry but why have you quoted my one before you made it

None of the points you raise were contained in my post. It's almost like you had a rant all forumulated, ready to get off your chest and though "ah feck it I'll stick it on the back of this load of sh!t".

I won't patronise you with "I love your optimism" either. If you think we will win the league or get close to it, you are in my humble opinion talking utter b0ll0cks. Nothing wrong with that as it is entirely your privilage, but it is so all the same.

by **kazza** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:46 am

Number 9 wrote::laugh:
Doable doable?

How many points are we off the top..remind me?
Is it over..are we out of it?Has a team NEVER came from being so many points behind and won?How many were UTD behind last year in December?You probably wont know cause you are a student of Mourinho and all his drama!

To see these boards and read the utter sh'ite YOU in particular come off with,one could be excused for thinking that we are a lost cause!WE ARE Fu*king NOT...we will be back..we will go on a run and we will be up there come May...Please dont patronise me with"I love your optomism"...just wait and see!

Very apt that its rememberance day as well..RIP each and every one...Id have hated to been in the trenches with you Micky...white flag boy,we would be either talking German or dead and you'd probably be making them tea with a POW badge on yer @rse!

One should not give up so easy!

by **bigmick** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:34 am

kazza wrote:
Number 9 wrote::laugh:
Doable doable?

How many points are we off the top..remind me?
Is it over..are we out of it?Has a team NEVER came from being so many points behind and won?How many were UTD behind last year in December?You probably wont know cause you are a student of Mourinho and all his drama!

To see these boards and read the utter sh'ite YOU in particular come off with,one could be excused for thinking that we are a lost cause!WE ARE Fu*king NOT...we will be back..we will go on a run and we will be up there come May...Please dont patronise me with"I love your optomism"...just wait and see!

Very apt that its rememberance day as well..RIP each and every one...Id have hated to been in the trenches with you Micky...white flag boy,we would be either talking German or dead and you'd probably be making them tea with a POW badge on yer @rse!

One should not give up so easy!

by **Dazzer** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:13 pm

Number 9 wrote:
bigmick wrote:I think there's some good points on both sides here. Naturally I see things slightly different from Reg and Kazza, as most of the time the abuse which I see been meted out is by people staunchly in support of the manager rather than the other way around. I do think sometimes there's an over eagerness to question whether someone is a "real fan" or not rather than to debate the actual points being raised, and I can't get this "that's what being a supporter is all about" thing when people are asking us to just keep getting beat every week and be thankful for it. Equally the idea that "if you believe" etc etc is all very well, but I can't make myself believe something which I don't actually believe if you get my drift.

All that said though, there has been some over reaction to the bad spell on both sides. I actually don't think that many people are advocating sacking the manager, but one or two have gone over the top and are blaming him for absolutely everything. He isn't to blame for absolutely everything, just most things IMHO and sometimes a little perspective is needed.

Nobody though is perfect, and I certainly aren't as anybody who reads the forum knows. I did though try and have more of a discussion with lando than a row for a change on the Mourinho thread yesterday (and in fairness to him he came to the party as well) and perhaps we all need to do a bit more of that. A little bit less of "it's nothing to do with Rafa that we lost" or "it's Rafa's fault we haven't won five quadruples" and a little bit more of arguing from a sensible standpoint wouldn't go amiss.

Broadly I agree with anybodies attempts to pull the forum back onto an even keel, whether it's doable or not though is entirely a different matter.

Doable doable?

How many points are we off the top..remind me?
Is it over..are we out of it?Has a team NEVER came from being so many points behind and won?How many were UTD behind last year in December?You probably wont know cause you are a student of Mourinho and all his drama!

To see these boards and read the utter sh'ite YOU in particular come off with,one could be excused for thinking that we are a lost cause!WE ARE Fu*king NOT...we will be back..we will go on a run and we will be up there come May...Please dont patronise me with"I love your optomism"...just wait and see!

Very apt that its rememberance day as well..RIP each and every one...Id have hated to been in the trenches with you Micky...white flag boy,we would be either talking German or dead and you'd probably be making them tea with a POW badge on yer @rse!

One should not give up so easy!

See this is the problem with the forums nasty digs.

by **Reg** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:56 pm

People seem unable to understand my original and subsequent posts - I'm not saying they cant argue against Rafa, we all feel the frustration of the recent scores but thats not the theme of my post which was to stop clogging up the forum with anti Rafa posts in every new thread thats created whether a rafa thread or not. Its become suffocating that every thread descends into the same boiring rant.

The two dickwads who commented about my I'm not happy video are prime examples of either not being able to read in the first place or plain too darn stoooopid to understand the message. I suspect the latter.

Bad Bob responded immediately and credit it to him by forming two posts, one for rants, the other for intelligent discussion. Job done.

The rest is folks continuing in ignorant bliss posting their silly critisms wherever and whenever they can, following the others like sheep.

I guess thats what this forum's become when the quality posters have gone, a forum of sheep. Baaaaa... everyone.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:01 pm

I think any football thread about Liverpool at the moment is likely to to quickly develop into a Rafa bashing thread Reg.

It may be a little wearying but no more tedious than posting "boring" in every thread. Maybe you could actually try stimulating some discussion occasionally rather than just moaning about others efforts.

I think RBG make a few good points in his post

Would a simple no suffice ? and an ever so gentle reminder your not my Teacher ,Lecturer ,or I hasten to add Dad .....

I take the time out of a hectic schedule to post my thoughts on a relevant subject, and its taken out of all context slapped with a label and thrown into another thread ,quite simply stifled by a person who has not the slightest inkling of the meaning behind the thread ,because if he did he would understand its importance and not have the sheer temerity to undermine its meaning ,not everything is black and white there exists a complete myriad of different colours and shades ,there has to be an intermediate ,this Forum used to flourish with genuine characters and there was a hell of a lot less censorship ,yet it thrived on its freedom ,now its bracketed ,typecast and put into well ordered categories as soon as posted ,power mad pen pushers gone OTT ...

Everyone thinks their thread is slightly different, everyone thinks they are right ........ yet strangely only I am right all the time.

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