Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:31 pm

I think there's some good points on both sides here. Naturally I see things slightly different from Reg and Kazza, as most of the time the abuse which I see been meted out is by people staunchly in support of the manager rather than the other way around. I do think sometimes there's an over eagerness to question whether someone is a "real fan" or not rather than to debate the actual points being raised, and I can't get this "that's what being a supporter is all about" thing when people are asking us to just keep getting beat every week and be thankful for it. Equally the idea that "if you believe" etc etc is all very well, but I can't make myself believe something which I don't actually believe if you get my drift.

All that said though, there has been some over reaction to the bad spell on both sides. I actually don't think that many people are advocating sacking the manager, but one or two have gone over the top and are blaming him for absolutely everything. He isn't to blame for absolutely everything, just most things IMHO

and sometimes a little perspective is needed.

Nobody though is perfect, and I certainly aren't as anybody who reads the forum knows. I did though try and have more of a discussion with lando than a row for a change on the Mourinho thread yesterday (and in fairness to him he came to the party as well) and perhaps we all need to do a bit more of that. A little bit less of "it's nothing to do with Rafa that we lost" or "it's Rafa's fault we haven't won five quadruples" and a little bit more of arguing from a sensible standpoint wouldn't go amiss.

Broadly I agree with anybodies attempts to pull the forum back onto an even keel, whether it's doable or not though is entirely a different matter.

by **bigmick** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:I'm taking a sabatical . doing my head in this site at the mo , infact everything to do with LFC is doing my head in . Truth hurts maybe ? i dunno !

And I would say Andy don't you dare feck off. If you believe in the manager (and you do) you'll know that at some point we will turn it around and start playing great again. I don't believe in the manager particularly but even I know that.

At some point, we will hit form and absolutely banjo everybody we play. It will be a bit late for the league, but we will look like the best team in England again. That is Rafa mate we all know that, stick around and bide your time.

If we've learnt one thing about Rafa Benitez over the last six seasons it's that he always gives both sides plenty of ammunition. This season will be no different, mark my words.

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:55 pm

Bad Bob wrote:On the topic of multiple Rafa threads, Reg does have a point. With that in mind, I've done some editing and pruning as follows:

1) The "Sack Him" thread is now your one-stop shop for venting and counter-venting, whinging, wailing, gnashing of teeth and all other passionate outbursts related to Rafa (pro or anti)

2) Owzat's latest thread on Rafa has been reimagined as the "Official Rafa Benitez Thread" -- the place for (hopefully) more sober, balanced and in-depth discussion about Rafa's successes and setbacks as a manager. For those that want to properly analyze and discuss the manager, that's the place to go and I think Owzat's parameters are a quite useful starting point. I'll be watching that thread closely to make sure that it is not inundated with one-liners, wind-ups, handbags or blanket throwing and offending posts will be removed for the sake of the thread.

Hopefully this will go some way toward fostering some good discussion about Rafa, whilst still providing a thread for those who must simply vent their frustrations with the state of things. Your cooperation in keeping Rafa discussion to these threads is greatly appreciated.

Nice one BB so in the morning when I get up there will be no more new Rafa topics :bowdown

Hooray

by **lakes10** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:58 pm

the problem is that there is a split on the forum, anf its around 40/60, when it was only one or two menbers saying Rafa should be sacked that it was easy for the pro fans to just move on or to just put the poster down, what is going on now is the members that sat on the fence over Rafa have moved over to the idea that he should leave the club, what this has made happen is that all the threads will have some content of sacking rafa about it.

by **Dundalk** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:04 pm

Bad Bob wrote:Owzat's latest thread on Rafa has been reimagined as the "Official Rafa Benitez Thread" -- the place for (hopefully) more sober, balanced and in-depth discussion about Rafa's successes and setbacks as a manager.

Updated in form index :;):

by **Ciggy** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:14 pm

lakes10 wrote:the problem is that there is a split on the forum, anf its around 40/60, when it was only one or two menbers saying Rafa should be sacked that it was easy for the pro fans to just move on or to just put the poster down, what is going on now is the members that sat on the fence over Rafa have moved over to the idea that he should leave the club, what this has made happen is that all the threads will have some content of sacking rafa about it.

Some of us are actually sick and tired of talking about Rafa all the time, I love my club but this Anti-Rafa agenda is really turning me against some of our fans, and its breaking my heart to see the mess that the club is in.

by **lakes10** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:21 pm

Ciggy wrote:
lakes10 wrote:the problem is that there is a split on the forum, anf its around 40/60, when it was only one or two menbers saying Rafa should be sacked that it was easy for the pro fans to just move on or to just put the poster down, what is going on now is the members that sat on the fence over Rafa have moved over to the idea that he should leave the club, what this has made happen is that all the threads will have some content of sacking rafa about it.

Some of us are actually sick and tired of talking about Rafa all the time, I love my club but this Anti-Rafa agenda is really turning me against some of our fans, and its breaking my heart to see the mess that the club is in.

yes Ciggy i understand that but when some feel that in part it is also down to him the results we are getting just of late that are going to start to talk about the manager.

you can not blame the owners for making the strange sub and putting out players we know dont cut it.

sometime he gets it wrong and when it happens fans need to get it off their chest.

i know some fell that every liverpool fan that blames Rafa should be band and it that is that case then this forum should change its name to "the Rafa Love in"

its not that, its about our club and our fans, Rafa is only going to be a small part of this clubs history, he will not make his mark like the other great managers of years ago (and if he did then yes i will take all back what i have said about him)
we need to thank him for what he has done in the CL over the years but also ask about the Prem and why over his time here he has not built a team that can always keep pace with the top 2.

by **fivecups** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:52 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
fivecups wrote:BTW, have you seen your thread titled 'How much have we really spent?'. I was trying to find it to add the BHB post and a recent Tomkins piece but couldn't locate it. There was a lot of good info about spending by LFC and other clubs.

Here you go, mate.

LINK

Cheers Bob dude!

by **phil_cool** » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:06 pm

Boo hoo BOO HOO I am not happy because the naughty people complain about Rafa.

Why not try watching that youtube video you keep posting Reg

by **Sabre** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:39 am

Yes Reg, it will be this way and you can't be surprised. When the team was progressing there was people who complained a lot despite all the happy clappy ammunition you throwed at them, and the hottest praises you'd get back then was either the progress was slow, or that they were "neutral" about the manager.

I for one didn't believe one word of that light praises I knew they were Antirafa all the way, so I'm not really surprised to see the antiRafa eyaculation we're witnessing.

Particularly I think it's all nice and part of the game of forums, so myself I think it's the time to hear all this until it stops raining. Because it will stop raining.

So no problem with newkit really, it's far more depressing to see the team losing games than users getting off the chest everything they couldn't two years ago because if they did the criticism they were slaughtered. The former is what it really hurts, the latter is nothing more than an internet forum and it shouldn't get below your skin. It's the internet nobody dies.

I'd just ask a bit of self moderation in the insults towards other members, and Rafa. That is, you can say Rafa should go or even his management is shíte, but there's no need to call him a clown. Because, if anything, Rafa has well proven he loves this club denying important offers from Real Madrid. That is, if I may ask, do say that his job is shíte but respect the man a bit. This suggestion, will be ignored as always :laugh:

but asking is free.

No problem Reg, the storm has and end like all the storms.

by **made in UK** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:40 am

phil_cool wrote:Boo hoo BOO HOO I am not happy because the naughty people complain about Rafa.

Why not try watching that youtube video you keep posting Reg

by **maguskwt** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:11 am

Sabre wrote:I for one didn't believe one word of that light praises I knew they were Antirafa all the way, so I'm not really surprised to see the antiRafa eyaculation we're witnessing.

"Anti-Rafa ejaculation"... I like the sound of it Sabes...

...like feckin anti-Rafa ejaculators!...

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:14 am

maguskwt wrote:
Sabre wrote:I for one didn't believe one word of that light praises I knew they were Antirafa all the way, so I'm not really surprised to see the antiRafa eyaculation we're witnessing.

"Anti-Rafa ejaculation"... I like the sound of it Sabes...

...like feckin anti-Rafa ejaculators!...

What he actualy means Mags is Rafa came an conquerd to quick :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:02 am

phil_cool wrote:Boo hoo BOO HOO I am not happy because the naughty people complain about Rafa.

Why not try watching that youtube video you keep posting Reg

I do see where you're comign from Phil I must admit.

In all seriousness, I think the vast majority of fans on here have been fairly reserved in their criticisms of our manager. Given the way the season has panned out I think the fact that most fans even those who are considered "anti's", are broadly in favour of NOT sacking the manager is testement to that.

The problem for those who not only don't want to talk about him themselves but seemingly don't anybody else to talk about him either, is that pretty much everything which happens before, during and after a game is related to the manager in some way. It's pretty difficult to discuss a team selection for example without mentioning the guy who actually picks it, ditto substitutions during a game, new signings, tactics, etc etc.

Ultimately of course all our opinions are totally irrelevent anyway, but a football forum where you can't say "I can't understand why Rafa didn't buy so and so" would definately be dead in a few days.

I think the best bet for those who don't wish to talk about the manager is probably for them not to do it.

by **Scottbot** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:11 am

Reg wrote:We´re in november, its a tough season both in the league and europe. Its not teh first time,

Realistically its going to be difficult to turn it round.

Already we have endless threads about sacking Rafa, the clubs gone to shít and how its the end of the world. Put together it runs into hundreds of pages.

Are we going to continue with this negative "I´m not happy" drivel for the next 9-10 months until the new season start?

Are we going to slag off the manager after every game we draw or lose and say it was a fluke if we win?

Are we going to call for his head in endless new threads?

If we are then we have to realise this forum is dead, its run its course because its not a place where poeple can come for open minded, enjoyable banter, debate, joking and fun. Its boring, depressing and dominated by a few sad posters who seem determined to undermine everything the manager, the bootroom, the players and club do.

Mods, please promote either a more open minded approach or invite posters to leave. Otherwise you´re going to see more long time members and good lads driven away.

Lets not kill this forum, its been fun in the past.

To be honest I really don't have a problem with any fan who wants to see a change of manager because quite simply, they want the change because they have lost belief in him, I know my belief is wavering a little at the moment. I don't think it's an anti-rafa agenda or anything like that, they just don't believe in the manager. some of it can be well over the top, and the same goes for some of the abuse the likes of Lucas, Voronator and Babel get for much of the time on here BUT that's football fans for you isn't it. I deffo think there are a good few vultures out there who only seem to post when things are going bad for the club and manager as is the case right now, and I can understand the pro's (I hate using that word!) getting very agitated on that front. Certainly there a few numbnuts on here who's posts I simply avoid because I know they're full of dross BUT I don't think it helps the way so many posters jump all over certain posters because they have lost belief in the manager. the likes of Lakes, Dazzer and Heimy (despite being a grumpy bugger!) don't half get some grief for voicing their opinions which (to be fair to them) haven't really changed in the last couple of years. The phrase 'you should get behind the team and support the manager' gets bandied about a lot on here but it's only a chat room and lets face it, whether you're praising or slating the team/manager it doesn't make a blind bit of difference, you're being neither supportive or unsupportive because no-ones blo...ody listening anyway! You can't help or hinder the team with anything that is posted on here on here but some of the uproar that greets critical posts flys in the face of this fact.

I'd love to see more posts about tactics, formations, styles of play and the ability/merits/strengths and weaknesses of our players because that's what i love to talk about.

Liverpool FC Forum

Is this the future of new kit? - Off the rails

Who is online