Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:13 pm

I have been thinking about this since I watched another Guillem Ballague interview on SSN yesterday afternoon. Ballague was basically saying that this season Benitez has been spending less time on the training pitch and longer hours in the office since the departure of Parry. Clearly there are many reasons why our form has dipped this season, which have all been discussed at length on here, but this is one I hadn't considered before.

In our worst league start for some time, this is also the first season where Benitez has been the 'manager' rather than the 'coach'. Could his lack of presence (according to Ballague) on the training pitch be such a factor in our decline? Is it a possible reason why the defending of set pieces has gone to sh.it? Is this why we look like we have no cohesion at all recently? Is this why we generally look a less organised and defensively solid outfit this season? If this is true does it raise questions over the quality of our backroom staff?

I remember Portsmouth's defence going to pieces after Redknapp left them, despite Adams having the same personnel. Adams reckoned it was because he had less time to spend on the training field drilling the defence as he had other managerial duties. Maybe this isn't that dissimilar a situation.

Whatever you say about Benitez he is proven quality as a coach. As a manager I would still say he's one of the more talented, whether he's up to winning the Premiership is another matter entirely.

Of course this is pure speculation (Ballague often says things as if they're 'matter of fact' when it's clearly not the case), but what are your views on whether this is a significant factor in what has been happening this season?

(Don't turn it into another 'sack him' thread)

by **Owzat** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:23 pm

john craig wrote:Ballague was basically saying that this season Benitez has been spending less time on the training pitch and longer hours in the office since the departure of Parry. Clearly there are many reasons why our form has dipped this season, which have all been discussed at length on here, but this is one I hadn't considered before.

Wash your mouth out, Parry was one of our problems (allegedly!)

I was thinking about this season earlier and the money excuse. can Rafa not organise the team and get enough out of them so we are playing better, with or without Gerrard and Torres fit? Six defeats takes some excusing for a side that last season ran the champions to the last two games, it's not even as if those defeats are the top six or the very best sides.

Devil's advocate, perhaps Rafa is spending more time in the office sending out his CV to other clubs.................

by **JC_81** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:38 pm

Owzat wrote:Devil's advocate, perhaps Rafa is spending more time in the office sending out his CV to other clubs.................

Harsh mate :laugh:

I'm not sure Ballague is to be believed on this one to be honest. I would have thought that even if Benitez was spending less time coaching at the start of the season, he'd sure as hell be putting the hours in coaching now given what's been happening...

by **Festy** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:42 pm

We were leaking lots of goals at the end of last season too...but were scoring more, so no one cared..Now that we haven't been scoring more than conceding, Ballague has come up with this conclusion ? :laugh:

Ballague is full of shit here imo. :angry:

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:01 pm

Good points John, however, I don't believe its the case because we still have the same weaknesses that we had last season and we haven't addressed them yet, especially in defence side of the game. I remember last season we conceced so many goals from set pieces, and we haven't fixed that yet. Furthermore, our squad got thin, we lost some good squad players over the year and we ended up with players who cannot be trusted or cannot play in the same level, its that simple. We need a stronger bench and good backup for our key player.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:17 pm

The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

by **JC_81** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:46 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

How much involvement do you think Pellegrino has in the coaching of the zonal marking though mate?

It seemed to be last season and moreso this season that we have been incapable of defending set pieces. Before that our record was pretty good if I remember the stats correctly.

In fact, basically since the backroom staff had an overhaul and Pellegrino and Sammy Lee came in, the set pieces have been a problem. Are they part of the problem in that they aren't coaching it properly? Has that been highlighted even more this season if it is true that Benitez is there less.

Personally I think that might be part of it, but probably the bigger problem is that we've been playing that system for 5 seasons now and teams have just sussed out how to exploit it. Plus we're a smaller and less powerful team man for man in the air than we were 5 seasons ago.

by **Dazzer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:53 pm

LFC2007 wrote:The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

~Well it shouldn't be bloody routine the amount of goals we are leaking if this is true then it does answer quite a few questions fans are asking and IF it is true then its not on !

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:18 pm

john craig wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

How much involvement do you think Pellegrino has in the coaching of the zonal marking though mate?

It seemed to be last season and moreso this season that we have been incapable of defending set pieces. Before that our record was pretty good if I remember the stats correctly.

In fact, basically since the backroom staff had an overhaul and Pellegrino and Sammy Lee came in, the set pieces have been a problem. Are they part of the problem in that they aren't coaching it properly? Has that been highlighted even more this season if it is true that Benitez is there less.

Personally I think that might be part of it, but probably the bigger problem is that we've been playing that system for 5 seasons now and teams have just sussed out how to exploit it. Plus we're a smaller and less powerful team man for man in the air than we were 5 seasons ago.

Very hard to tell how much of the problem is down to changes in the coaching staff or method (s'pose you'd have to be there and even then...) to the effects of some of our better headers moving on (Hyypia, Crouch, Alonso, Riise) and the changes in individual form (Carra and Skrtl). I think it's more the latter two than anything. It's a fairly simple system that most of the players are well versed in so any changes in coaching staff shouldn't have had too much of an effect.

Mind you we have lacked direction/coordination from the back, especially from set pieces, and so you have to question whether the manager/coaching staff might have done more in communicating the key messages better and making sure they stick (know your zone, be aware of those around you, be on your toes, anticipate the header, if you're a blocker then f'ucking block, don't just stand there). That type of thing.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:26 pm

Dazzer wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

~Well it shouldn't be bloody routine the amount of goals we are leaking if this is true then it does answer quite a few questions fans are asking and IF it is true then its not on !

What the fuck are you on? :kungfu:

by **Dazzer** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:01 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Dazzer wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:The coaching of the defence must be pretty routine by now (Pellegrino must be the most hands-on), but Rafa being the meticulous planner that he is - generally well aware of the importance of solid foundations, and especially so of late - surely wouldn't take anything less than a very keen interest in that department?

I'm speculating somewhat, but I don't think he'd let office work get in the way of the most important work of all.

~Well it shouldn't be bloody routine the amount of goals we are leaking if this is true then it does answer quite a few questions fans are asking and IF it is true then its not on !

What the fuck are you on?

So you think when the team is under performing training should still be routine or you don't think they should be working a little harder ? Or Rafa should be working a little harder.But thats If this story is true of course.

Also just because you don't understand something don't mean I am on as you put it any thing just means you fail to understand a perfectly understandable comment.Not surprised as there is alot of it going on here lately.

by **LFC2007** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:49 pm

Ah well, there's a good chance you've interpreted my use of the word 'routine' as a prejorative....which is baffling because that clearly wasn't the intended use. No, I meant 'routine' as in a frequent and familiar part of training and hence it surely couldn't make too much of a difference whether Rafa spends an extra 20 minutes in the office (for example - whether that would actually mean less time from spent on his work on the pitch I very much doubt for a start), or whether the coaches are Pellegrino and Sammy Lee or indeed Alex Miller and Pako Ayesteran. I meant the 'set' work, particularly set piece work as that's the stuff that takes place on a routine basis, not game-specific work which I just simply can't imagine Rafa leaving even for a moment to take care of 'office duties'

by **Dazzer** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:15 am

LFC2007 wrote:Ah well, there's a good chance you've interpreted my use of the word 'routine' as a prejorative....which is baffling because that clearly wasn't the intended use. No, I meant 'routine' as in a frequent and familiar part of training and hence it surely couldn't make too much of a difference whether Rafa spends an extra 20 minutes in the office (for example - whether that would actually mean less time from spent on his work on the pitch I very much doubt for a start), or whether the coaches are Pellegrino and Sammy Lee or indeed Alex Miller and Pako Ayesteran. I meant the 'set' work, particularly set piece work as that's the stuff that takes place on a routine basis, not game-specific work which I just simply can't imagine Rafa leaving even for a moment to take care of 'office duties'

Ok well as long as you understood how that could been see why I read it.Thanks for clearing up.But end of day I bet this is just nonesense tbph Tho I want rafa out I Don't want him to be made fool out of he done alot for our club I hope he can get a win on sunday as well.I just don't know how much more of his management I can take before he kills me. :wwww

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