Liverpool FC Forum

by **parchpea** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:52 pm

Look we havent won the title in 20 years and right now we have lost 4 matches and our team looks well short so I reckon its all over bar the shouting. Eternal faith in a manager,looking for positives, and making excuses for shocking performances will not take the club anywhere, and frankly the fans are as much to blame for Liverpools demise as those employed by the club. We must face facts that despite the problems off the field we now have a manager bereft of ideas and whos recruitment policy and strategy is completely and utterly spent up. Benitez and Liverpool need fresh starts because a manager in the shape hes in is now going to take us backwards at an alarming rate. This year Benitez was given every chance by his employers when they replaced Parry at his request and gave him more control at the club but he has taken us backwards as a result. Quite frankly you need look no further than Benitez to find why this team is in such poor shape and its about time people woke up before we fall further behind.

by **Sabre** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:03 pm

There are things in continental football that are quite the same than in English football. For instance when a team are struggling, there also are many voices that look at the manager and want to get him sacked.

The difference between that and Liverpool is that normally in Spanish football when the fans reach to this point the manager is sacked. Thus you can see 3 managers in a season, or 20 managers in 10 years, and things like that.

When you see lots of managers coming and going you realise that sometimes they're not the problem. I understand why the ones who focus on Rafa do so, and I understand it even more after 5 years with the same manager and considering our history. You say that because you want the best for this club.

And I won't try to convince you of the opposite (I couldn't anyway). So if we have to change manager, let's do it, I for one wouldn't be very optimist unless a magician with a magic wand came.

by **THEBARON** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:13 pm

We all want the best for the club , there are pros and cons for Rafa....

But if you are considering getting rid of him - who could do a better job?

Who are genuine alternatives who could move the team forward?

by **Sabre** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:15 pm

THEBARON wrote:We all want the best for the club , there are pros and cons for Rafa....

But if you are considering getting rid of him - who could do a better job?

Who are genuine alternatives who could move the team forward?

You wrote my point much better in 3 lines, thank you.

I'll just add another question, the new manager, would have a better support from the American owners when he makes his list of wanted players?

by **THEBARON** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:20 pm

Well hopefully there should be some funds available in January ( whoever the boss is ) given the recent sponsorship deal.
We certainly need some back up for Torres , we have done since we let Keane go and never replaced him.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:30 pm

They had three players on that pitch today who we couldnt afford to buy in the summer transfer window, Fact

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:31 pm

I think talk of changing the manager mid season is daft. If you are going to change managers you do it at the end of the season for two reasons. Firstly because it gives you chance to recruit a viable alternative, and secondly because it's only reasonable to give a manager time to turn any situation around. I agree with Sabre in that I don't expect us to finish eighth, and I actually still despite myself think we'll get going at some stage and look like a good team again. So for me the manager should be given every opportunity to bring his plans to fruition. I actually think that barring an absolutely disasterous season, he should also be given another try next year as well unless a really special alternative manager became unexpectedly available. If that were to happen and we didn't win anything again this season, I'd shake hands and call it quits.

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:37 pm

NANNY RED wrote:They had three players on that pitch today who we couldnt afford to buy in the summer transfer window, Fact

Well it's "kind of" a fact Nan. Yes we couldn't have afforded the 22 million quid for Bent, Cattermole and Turner in addition to the 39 million we had spent on Johnson, the Greek bloke and Aquilani, but I dare say if we'd not bought one of the more expensive options we might have been able to stretch to it.

Funnily enough I think all three of Sunderlands big signings are the type of players we should be looking at more often. Up and coming, hungry, home based, point to prove players often from less glamorous clubs can often be useful additions to a squad or team, and for some reason they have become the preserve of the likes of Everton and Villa in recent years.

I've long said we should be looking closer to home sometimes, and in all fairness anybody who took a couple of minutes to look at Darren Bents career stats and watch him a couple of times would have known that he had a good chance at the very least of being a good signing.

by **THEBARON** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:39 pm

Good point from big mick - would we really gain anything by changing manager mid season, there are less choices available to pick a replacement from and the remainder of the season is potentially a write off..
give the guy in place the whole season to prove / hang himself
It is only October..

by **parchpea** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:01 pm

I doubt very much he will go purely because hes on such a good contract and they want people to buy in to the club.Benitez has manouvered himself into a strong position no matter how the cards fall but its a pity that politics and money will hamper the way the teams shaping up. I dont want to but I have to accept hes here for a while longer yet even though its hurting the club in my opinion. Unless the owners really are that ticked off they go out on a whim and can him but its not likely right now. I will call it quits as its clear how I feel but I tell you now I reckon we are in for a bloody hard ride this season so buckle up as its gonna get very bumpy.

by **Rush Job** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:14 pm

I think Roy Hodgson is a good manager,plus we wont have much left in the pot once we have payed off rafa. :;):

I`m actually being serious about Hodgson though.

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:21 pm

No, you leave the manager where he is. You support him and you support the team, and you just hope that when the big players come back, and when Aquilani gets going, we can make a run at a trophy or two.

As for the manager and his record/achievements, well that debates been done many times. No doubt as time goes on some people will revisit their stance and wonder if they called it right or not. It matters not a jot either way whether any of us did really, as we now have a very powerful manager with a huge backroom staff, a squad and academy full of his recruits, and a massive contract which will need paying whether or not he is at the helm. For my part I made my call some time ago and unsurprisingly I suppose I don't think I'll be for changing it anytime soon.

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:36 pm

bigmick wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:They had three players on that pitch today who we couldnt afford to buy in the summer transfer window, Fact

Well it's "kind of" a fact Nan. Yes we couldn't have afforded the 22 million quid for Bent, Cattermole and Turner in addition to the 39 million we had spent on Johnson, the Greek bloke and Aquilani, but I dare say if we'd not bought one of the more expensive options we might have been able to stretch to it.

Funnily enough I think all three of Sunderlands big signings are the type of players we should be looking at more often. Up and coming, hungry, home based, point to prove players often from less glamorous clubs can often be useful additions to a squad or team, and for some reason they have become the preserve of the likes of Everton and Villa in recent years.

I've long said we should be looking closer to home sometimes, and in all fairness anybody who took a couple of minutes to look at Darren Bents career stats and watch him a couple of times would have known that he had a good chance at the very least of being a good signing.

Mick we tried to get Turner but coulnt afford him , that i know to be true, Aqalani money is payable on the never never, Would you have been made up if we signed Bent , i wouldnt , im just pointing out that they had 3 players who if we did wanna sign in the tranfer window , we couldnt have afforded them anyway.

An anyone who thinks another manager who may suddenly become available , Mr Michael :;):

an wave a magic wand an we will suddenly become wonderful , sorry but im not havin it.

We at the moment are simply not good enough, there ive said it. The strengh an dept of the team is diabolical, an unless we spend big on world class an i mean world class , Then we are not gonna be able to compete, Just a side note here,IMO Rafa if he was given the amount of finance the Portugese fella had an and has got now would batter him all over the park tacticaly. The Portusese fella wouldnt put up with having no money available , he wouldnt put up with havin to wheel deal,

by **tubby** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:10 pm

And he wouldn't leave Inter just yet anyway he has them eating out of his hand.

by **bigmick** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:20 pm

Nan I would have been made up if we'd signed Bent to be honest, yes. I've been saying for a long time that we need a viable and credible alternative to our star front man, and the Sunderland match didn't reach us anything we didn't already know about Kuyt as a striker, Voronin or N'Gog. Bent is a good player, arguably a very good one, and Sunderland stole him for 10 million quid, absolutely nicked him.

I did read on here about Turner, and yes my feeling is also that we couldn't afford him after we'd bought Johnson and Aquilani. Yes you could say that the owners could have backed Rafa more (and I'd agree with you to be honest, I've said that many times) but Rafa did get to spend 39 million quid or whatever it was on players, add ons or no add ons. I know we brought almost all of that in through the sale of Alonso, but you could equally argue that the likes of Man Utd and Arsenal came nowhere near spending the transfer money which they brought in, finishing hugely in credit over the Summer.

I'm not going to get into talking about any Portuguese fellas on here, and in all honesty I'm reluctant to get into another in depth disection of Rafa's record, his spend and all the rest. I've taken a fair bit of flak these last two weeks and unusually for me I haven't got the stomach for it today.

Ultimately of course, people make their own judgement. You look at the team, how long the manager has been here, the players that have been through, how good the squad currently is, how many trophies we have won and are likely to win in your opinion, how good we were last season and how much we have progressed to this season, how we are performing relative to other clubs given their spend and the length of time their managers have been there etc etc. You weigh all of that up, and you come to a conclusion whether or not you think the achievements match your ambition for the team.

I've always had the utmost respect for anybodies opinion that they think Rafa is the right man for the job, he is doing the best that is possible under the circumstances, nobody else could improve on what he is doing given the resources available, nobody else could get this bunch of players to achieve more than they are etc. They have obviously considered the factors which I mentioned earlier and come to that conclusion which is absolutely fine. I considered the same things and came to a different conclusion quite a long time ago now, and I can't help that. that doesn't mean though that I think we should ditch a manager in October, that would be madness.

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