Liverpool FC Forum

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:32 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Effes wrote:It's not looking good. I think the "comfort zone" of the top four is looking a bit shakey now with Man City looking menacing on the horizon.

This is a good point...and this is something which i am looking for ever since the dark ages of houllier. (ie....qualify for champions league every season = a good season).

Now, we have to take each game as a must win.... No more screwing with experimental formations ..... No more playing sh1tty players in the hope they justify the manager in buying them.

The dark ages of Houllier? Sometimes I wonder what you're on, or even if you've an ounce of a clue. Houllier was no prodigy, but he built a fairly solid ship that in the end started to take on water with some dodgy signings and amidst the rough waters that was - and still is - the shambles of our board. Are you forgetting the relative success Houllier had at the helm? We were an absolute joke in the league and the cups, especially in Europe prior to Houller. It's just a shame that his health and other circumstances marred his reign at the end, which subsequently, after he left, we were an absolute state. If we still had the side now that Houllier left us with, you can bet your bollox that we'd be in the "dark ages" right now as qualifying for the CL would be a nigh on impossiblity. Dark ages? Na, that was the 90's.

Blah blah Blah Blah Blah...Spare me the history....... I know what houllier did for this club.....I have mentioned in the past the houllier had won more trophies for this club than benitez has..... I am more of a fan of houllier than benitez. I still consider the treble winning year of 2000/2001 the bigger achievement than winning the champions league....so yeah spare me the lecture on houllier...

When i mention the dark ages of houllier, i am talking about his later years at this club specifically the 2003/2003 & 2003/2004 when it was like .... finish4th for a champions league place = success....ie.....our expectation were lowered.

And i can see it happening now too....."As long as we qualify for europe....hey it is a good season....lets look forward to next season....whooo hooo".

Now Manchester city are here to break the "top 4 syndrome" So is qualifying yearly for champions league football still the measurement of our success

?

BTW.....stop attacking everybody who questions benitez as lacking clue....its getting boring like your passy posts.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:37 pm

The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:47 pm

The_Rock wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Effes wrote:It's not looking good. I think the "comfort zone" of the top four is looking a bit shakey now with Man City looking menacing on the horizon.

This is a good point...and this is something which i am looking for ever since the dark ages of houllier. (ie....qualify for champions league every season = a good season).

Now, we have to take each game as a must win.... No more screwing with experimental formations ..... No more playing sh1tty players in the hope they justify the manager in buying them.

The dark ages of Houllier? Sometimes I wonder what you're on, or even if you've an ounce of a clue. Houllier was no prodigy, but he built a fairly solid ship that in the end started to take on water with some dodgy signings and amidst the rough waters that was - and still is - the shambles of our board. Are you forgetting the relative success Houllier had at the helm? We were an absolute joke in the league and the cups, especially in Europe prior to Houller. It's just a shame that his health and other circumstances marred his reign at the end, which subsequently, after he left, we were an absolute state. If we still had the side now that Houllier left us with, you can bet your bollox that we'd be in the "dark ages" right now as qualifying for the CL would be a nigh on impossiblity. Dark ages? Na, that was the 90's.

Blah blah Blah Blah Blah...Spare me the history....... I know what houllier did for this club.....I have mentioned in the past the houllier had won more trophies for this club than benitez has.....

When i mention the dark ages of houllier, i am talking about his later years at this club specifically the 2003/2003 & 2003/2004 when it was like .... finish4th for a champions league place = success....ie.....our expectation were lowered.

And i can see it happening now too....."As long as we qualify for europe....hey it is a good season....lets look forward to next season....whooo hooo".

Now Manchester city are here to break the "top 4 syndrome" So is qualifying yearly for champions league football still the measurement of our success ?

4 points off United with 90 points to play for and we're going back to these mythical dark ages? You don't half talk some sh*te, rock. We're no better off financially than what we were under Moores. In fact we're f*ckin worse. The financial league has changed massively since Houllier. The fact that we've even managed to be up there even qualifying for the CL in the past 5 years is a feat in itself. Something Benitez will never get credit from short-sighted supporters. "Oh, but we've spent 200 million" that old chestnut. Really? City, Chelsea, and United can drop half of that in a single summer of spending should they wish. That's the reality of what we're competing with.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:53 pm

s@int wrote:The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

Aye, but we couldn't really get in the CL in the 90's s@int. It's a different climate now. Plus we really never won f"ck all apart from the odd Coca Cola or Milk Cup, or whatever it was called. Imagine if City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal had the resources they have now back then with the top two qualifying for the CL. We'd totally be f*cked. Things have changed big time, and it's even more difficult now for us than it ever was back then. That's the difference.

by **Penguins** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:02 pm

Well, with the summer we had I never really believed that this would be the year. I was more optimistic at the start of the summer, but we did nothing while teams like City, Spurs etc got a heck of a lot stronger.

Chelski spent some but at the same time Essien got back fora full season and Dropba is back to where he was before scolari came.

There are just so many troublesome teams out there and our defense is really poor. Wouldn't even rate it in the top 4 right now. We have lost vs every single decent side so far. And thankfully Torres and Gerrard haven't been injured yet.

We all knew going into the summer we were lacking something
and as things stands right now our owners will not allow us to take that next step as I don't see how things will be that great next summer either.

We have already lost more games this season than last season and I'll eat my hat if we get more pts this season than last.

3 losses in 8 games is :censored:

poor imo.

City and Villa with 2 games at hand will probably overtake us and if Sunderland beat us next weekend we'll be 8th or 9th.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:08 pm

i keep seeing this nobody has ever won the title after losing 3 games so early stat. Don't care about that at all. Surely teams have come back to win the title after only being down 6 points after 9 games, right?

by **Penguins** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Yes, but it is very worrying we've lost all games vs top 10 opposition.

I don't see the signs that the defense is all off a sudden going to be solid or that someone else is going to lighten the load from Torres.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

Aye, but we couldn't really get in the CL in the 90's s@int. It's a different climate now. Plus we really never won f"ck all apart from the odd Coca Cola or Milk Cup, or whatever it was called. Imagine if City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal had the resources they have now back then with the top two qualifying for the CL. We'd totally be f*cked. Things have changed big time, and it's even more difficult now for us than it ever was back then. That's the difference.

I disagree mate, it was MUCH harder back then. No CL MONEY for finishing 4th back then mate. So that would mean we WOULDN'T HAVE QUALIFIED OR WON IT UNDER RAFA, and even Souness managed to win the FA CUP

People can argue till the cows come home about our spending, but the facts are simple ..... we have spent more under Rafa than the Mancs. (both net and gross)

I really think its time that we stopped using spending as an excuse and started looking for the real problems.

This is the FIRST season that Citeh have looked like challenging and already people are throwing out the excuses...... what ever happened to the "it takes time" and "they have come from a lot further back" excuses that we have seen used in Rafa's defence?

The simple truth is that if we fail this year there are no excuses.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:35 pm

s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

Aye, but we couldn't really get in the CL in the 90's s@int. It's a different climate now. Plus we really never won f"ck all apart from the odd Coca Cola or Milk Cup, or whatever it was called. Imagine if City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal had the resources they have now back then with the top two qualifying for the CL. We'd totally be f*cked. Things have changed big time, and it's even more difficult now for us than it ever was back then. That's the difference.

I disagree mate, it was MUCH harder back then. No CL MONEY for finishing 4th back then mate. So that would mean we WOULDN'T HAVE QUALIFIED OR WON IT UNDER RAFA, and even Souness managed to win the FA CUP

People can argue till the cows come home about our spending, but the facts are simple ..... we have spent more under Rafa than the Mancs. (both net and gross)

I really think its time that we stopped using spending as an excuse and started looking for the real problems.

This is the FIRST season that Citeh have looked like challenging and already people are throwing out the excuses...... what ever happened to the "it takes time" and "they have come from a lot further back" excuses that we have seen used in Rafa's defence?

The simple truth is that if we fail this year there are no excuses.

I was talking about in terms of the strength of the league, though, not the CL. I really don't believe the EPL was as strong as it is now. For sure, you only need to look at the teams in Europe as a indication of how strong it is now.

I've a question: do you believe that with our current team and manager, do you believe we'd have had a chance of winning the Prem in the 90's? I think we would have won it, and not just once.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:36 pm

JoeTerp wrote:i keep seeing this nobody has ever won the title after losing 3 games so early stat. Don't care about that at all. Surely teams have come back to win the title after only being down 6 points after 9 games, right?

It's the form, Joe, not the stats or points tally that I think people are most concerned over.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:49 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

Aye, but we couldn't really get in the CL in the 90's s@int. It's a different climate now. Plus we really never won f"ck all apart from the odd Coca Cola or Milk Cup, or whatever it was called. Imagine if City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal had the resources they have now back then with the top two qualifying for the CL. We'd totally be f*cked. Things have changed big time, and it's even more difficult now for us than it ever was back then. That's the difference.

I disagree mate, it was MUCH harder back then. No CL MONEY for finishing 4th back then mate. So that would mean we WOULDN'T HAVE QUALIFIED OR WON IT UNDER RAFA, and even Souness managed to win the FA CUP

People can argue till the cows come home about our spending, but the facts are simple ..... we have spent more under Rafa than the Mancs. (both net and gross)

I really think its time that we stopped using spending as an excuse and started looking for the real problems.

This is the FIRST season that Citeh have looked like challenging and already people are throwing out the excuses...... what ever happened to the "it takes time" and "they have come from a lot further back" excuses that we have seen used in Rafa's defence?

The simple truth is that if we fail this year there are no excuses.

I was talking about in terms of the strength of the league, though, not the CL. I really don't believe the EPL was as strong as it is now. For sure, you only need to look at the teams in Europe as a indication of how strong it is now.

I've a question: do you believe that with our current team and manager, do you believe we'd have had a chance of winning the Prem in the 90's? I think we would have won it, and not just once.

Probably we would, but the finances were different then. No one was buying the best striker in Spain back then.

Do you think with our present manager we would have won anything if he had to bring in the local reserves like Souness, Evans and Houllier did?

Managers had to do a little more than just open their cheque book back then mate.

by **maximus** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:51 pm

This season so far: 5 wins + 0 draws + 3 defeats = 15 points

This point last season: 3 wins + 5 draws + 0 defeats = 14 points

We're not doing any worse than last season so far :suspect:

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:55 pm

maximus wrote:This season so far: 5 wins + 0 draws + 3 defeats = 15 points

This point last season: 3 wins + 5 draws + 0 defeats = 14 points

We're not doing any worse than last season so far

After 8 games last season we had 20 points mate !

p w d l f a pts
2 Liverpool 8 6 2 0 13 6 20

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:56 pm

s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:The nineties was hardly the dark ages apart from under Souness

League position
1989/90 - 1st
1990/91 - 2nd
1991/02 - 6th
1992/03 - 6th
1993/04 - 8th
1994/95 - 4th
1995/96 - 3rd
1996/97 - 4th (joint 2nd on = points with 2 other sides )
1997/98 - 3rd
1998/99 - 7th
1999/00 - 4th

Aye, but we couldn't really get in the CL in the 90's s@int. It's a different climate now. Plus we really never won f"ck all apart from the odd Coca Cola or Milk Cup, or whatever it was called. Imagine if City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal had the resources they have now back then with the top two qualifying for the CL. We'd totally be f*cked. Things have changed big time, and it's even more difficult now for us than it ever was back then. That's the difference.

I disagree mate, it was MUCH harder back then. No CL MONEY for finishing 4th back then mate. So that would mean we WOULDN'T HAVE QUALIFIED OR WON IT UNDER RAFA, and even Souness managed to win the FA CUP

People can argue till the cows come home about our spending, but the facts are simple ..... we have spent more under Rafa than the Mancs. (both net and gross)

I really think its time that we stopped using spending as an excuse and started looking for the real problems.

This is the FIRST season that Citeh have looked like challenging and already people are throwing out the excuses...... what ever happened to the "it takes time" and "they have come from a lot further back" excuses that we have seen used in Rafa's defence?

The simple truth is that if we fail this year there are no excuses.

I was talking about in terms of the strength of the league, though, not the CL. I really don't believe the EPL was as strong as it is now. For sure, you only need to look at the teams in Europe as a indication of how strong it is now.

I've a question: do you believe that with our current team and manager, do you believe we'd have had a chance of winning the Prem in the 90's? I think we would have won it, and not just once.

Probably we would, but the finances were different then. No one was buying the best striker in Spain back then.

Do you think with our present manager we would have won anything if he had to bring in the local reserves like Souness, Evans and Houllier did?

Managers had to do a little more than just open their cheque book back then mate.

Probably not, S@int. But I believe that Rafa would not have sold off our best players that what was essentially a title winning unit, albeit with the addition of one or two players it would have been. We most likely wouldn't have slipped out of the big time, and the club wouldn't have gone into the state it went into. Of course this is all hypothetical, really. Again, it could be a case for an interesting debate in a separate thread, maybe?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:12 pm

Yeah mate, Rafa would never do that. Like in 2006 when we won the FA CUP and had the best form AND the most points of any team after Christmas finishing only one point behind the mancs. He would never break that team up and buy players like Pennant and Bellamy.

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