Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:09 pm

Lots of players with different skills play in several positions throughout their careers. I wouldn't say though that the qualities of full-backs who specialise in that position - on the whole - makes them especially interchangeable with the CM position. It depends entirely on their individual skill-set; some FBs are better suited to doing a job in CM, some aren't - (you wouldn't have Evra, Cole, Bosingwa, Clichy in there unless you could help it, for example). By the same token, you'll find CBs that move into midfield, CMs who move into defence, strikers who move into midfield, strikers who move out to the wing etc...

Aurelio's one I think could do a job in there on a temporary basis mainly because competition isn't exactly fierce in there at the moment.

by **Sabre** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:22 pm

I wouldn't say though that the qualities of full-backs who specialise in that position - on the whole - makes them especially interchangeable with the CM position

I have seen lots of players changing positions, but a LB playing CM is very rare.

I think Aurelio playing in CM succesfully talks very well of the technical skill of this player. That said, if we reach to that point of having to use Aurelio, I hope we sell Lucas in the next transfer window.

by **bigmick** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:41 pm

LFC2007 wrote:Aurelio's one I think could do a job in there on a temporary basis mainly because competition isn't exactly fierce in there at the moment.

What do you meean by this exactly mate

by **7_Kewell** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:45 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Aurelio's one I think could do a job in there on a temporary basis mainly because competition isn't exactly fierce in there at the moment.

What do you meean by this exactly mate

I think he's refering to Lucas

by **LFC2007** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:08 am

by **bigmick** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:22 am

The short answer to the original question is of course, no.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:57 am

Owzat wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
Owzat wrote:In theory FBs should have the skills of a CM/DM, and vice versa, but it doesn't always work out. If Aurelio were fit, shouldn't he be our 1st choice LB? Not sure I'd want to go with converting players out of position more than Rafa usually does or we'll have AMs and CFs out wide, DMs at FB, CBs at FB, etc etc ie what happened last season and this

In theory? what theory is that?

CM's are in totally different situations than FB's... CM's have less space than FB's, they need to be able to hold the ball well. They need to be good on the ball. They need to be aware of what's happening on all 8 directions. They need to pass well. They need to be strong so that the opposition CM could not brush them off. They don't usually need to be that speedy. Imo good CM's need to be a good all-rounder. FB's are a more specialised position. Quite different IMO.

Full-backs need to have decent technique, to be able to tackle and should be good at link play and even passing and crossing. You've highlighted what a good CM needs to be, but completely disregarded the fact that good FBs shouldn't be brushed off the ball, shouldn't need yards of space, don't have to be that speedy, have to show awareness of players and the constraints of the sides of the pitch etc. Very few players do get time on the ball, space etc. Where they play should be determined by their strengths, not because they don't have other skills. That is one reason I worry about dropping Gerrard into a deeper role, I think he is at his best and can show his strengths more in his current role.

Or perhaps all those managers/coaches who've played FBs at DM and vice versa know less than you do..................... Funny how Aurelio has played in central midfield, so too Phil Neville and Mascherano and Hargreaves have played full-back to name a few examples off the top of my head of the two being interchanged. The Croat boss tried it on Wednesday, didn't really work but theory is sound (perhaps you've never heard of the expression "in theory", as in 'theoretically', but it is a common expression)

I remember a manc was as cynical of my opinion that maybe Wes Brown should play full-back, I get the last laugh though as not long after fergie was playing him there and he's been used there for England. Only relevant here in the fact that the manc knocked my 'theory' and then it was backed up by the manager he worships. Sometimes these things backfire bigtime, like when England have played CBs in midfield - King and Southgate?

The cases you mentioned are mostly stop-gap measures...

let's put it this way, a very good FB may make a decent CM but very rarely a very good CM and vice versa. And you may be right in that FB's are a bit more compatible to DM's and vice versa but not CM's. But even in those cases they are still stop-gap measures.

Like LFC mentioned good talented players can do alot of things decently that's why they can play in alot of positions. That doesn't mean that a FB position is interchangeable with a CM position. They need to do things differently and they are in very different areas on the pitch. One needs multi-directional awareness the other can concentrate on one side of the pitch. To be considered good in a certain position the player need to have certain specialised skills. For example Mascherano will always be a better DM than a CM because his speciality is in winning balls and tackling and being tenacious. He lacks the passing, ball holding ability and vision of a good CM. Also he can never be a good RB because he lacks the dribbling skill to go pass a player like Johnson and Arbeloa. Also he cannot cross as well as the FB's. So yes as a stop-gap measure he can become a RB because of his defensive skills but he can never become a good RB.

So yes I dont' buy this theory that FB's and CM's have similar skill sets because obvioulsy they don't...

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:05 am

Will give another example...

Could Paolo Maldini, arguably one of the best left backs the world have ever seen with a very wide variety of skill sets, ever be as good a CM as Demetrio Albertini, a world class midfielder but cannot be considered one of the best in his postion? I don't think so...and albertini was considered more defensive than a pure CM. Heck they even played Dino Baggio, a good DM but not really in the same class as Albertini, instead of playing Maldini as a defensive midfielder... I wonder why?

by **loopyliverpool** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:16 am

Gerrard can play exceptionally well as a full back! Ok, he is obviously an exceptional player and can play anywhere. I know this is of kilter a touch but the primary aim for a full back is to be able to defend and one of our full backs aint no good at that and I would prefer to see him as a midfielder.... no points for guessing our man Johnson there. Anyway back to Aurelio, he has proven he can play there when we played against Pompey last season... if I recall I think we had a five man midfield that day though, so he can play there but we might have to change the setup. I would only play him there if totally necessary as he is the best left back at the club.

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:35 am

maguskwt wrote:Will give another example...

Could Paolo Maldini, arguably one of the best left backs the world have ever seen with a very wide variety of skill sets, ever be as good a CM as Demetrio Albertini, a world class midfielder but cannot be considered one of the best in his postion? I don't think so...and albertini was considered more defensive than a pure CM. Heck they even played Dino Baggio, a good DM but not really in the same class as Albertini, instead of playing Maldini as a defensive midfielder... I wonder why?

You're comparing players who are the best in a position, of course they're not going to fill in - duh. The basic skills are the same whether you think so or not, I think what you're doing is arguing a completely different thing which is the quality. I never said that a good FB would make a good CM or DM, in fact I could well have left CM out altogether, but that they have the same (basic) skills IN THEORY. That is why FBs have been played at DM and vice versa, it happens and has been done by managers in the top flight and at international level. So you're trying to tell us all that these managers have flawed logic?!?!? I don't doubt Maldini would have made an excellent DM/CM but you don't take top quality players in a position and play them out of position. You're focusing too much on quality rather than the point I made.

I think you should stick to humping mice

by **LFC2007** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:10 pm

Owzat wrote:I never said that a good FB would make a good CM or DM, in fact I could well have left CM out altogether, but that they have the same (basic) skills IN THEORY. That is why FBs have been played at DM and vice versa, it happens and has been done by managers in the top flight and at international level.

So too have wingers, forwards and centre-halves.

by **kunilson** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:20 pm

i think aurelio can do quite well at CM....if he has masch picking up the pieces behind him while he learns how to position well and such, i cant see a reason why he cant play there. he already has on occasion for us, he is a good passer of the ball, he can tackle....im just unsure whether he has the legs for it.

there's the obvious problem of keeping him fit. if he keeps getting injured as a full-back, being a CM where you have to throw yourself about alot more could be too much for him week in week out.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:32 pm

Never .

by **Johnny Boy** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:45 pm

I agree, against poor oppostion perhaps but tonight is there for everyone to see - he isn't a central midfield player at all.

by **GYBS** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:38 pm

Aurelio shoudl never ever play in the centre of the park ever again - that game tonight showed that .

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