Liverpool FC Forum

by **Octsky** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:09 am

As some of you guys mentioned, GH's favorite is actually Heskey, beside winning a penalty for us on his debut, every goal he scored, he had missed three/four.
GH drove Fowler away, but also brought us Hyypia. In the era of the 90's, we had no shortage of good forwards and GH broke this chain when he sold Fowler to Leeds. But GH had also taught us that to go places, the defense is the first gate.

Once RM knocked, no money in the world can retain Owen. If RM was not interested, Owen may stay. But Owen is no saint, he was offered the chance to come back to the club but choose Newcastle, the World cup and a 4mths injury layoff instead. Owen simply think too much of himself and place no regards to Liverpool non the fans.
The way Torres played, i will be very surprised if RM, being the scums of football world, didnt come knocking once again. I hope they spend themselves into bankruptcy.

by **Scottbot** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:33 pm

The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

You do talk some sh....i...t, how was he treated like shi.....t.e? So when a player is moved on that means he's being treated badly?

by **Scottbot** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:47 pm

maguskwt wrote:Transfers Out

Player Signed Cost Left for
Xabi Alonso 5 August 2009 30,000,000 Real Madrid
Robbie Keane February 1 2009 15,000,000 Tottenham Hotspur
Peter Crouch July 2008 11,000,000 Newcastle United
Mohammed Sissoko January 29 2008 8,200,000 Juventus
Michael Owen August 2004 8,000,000 Real Madrid
Craig Bellamy July 2007 7,500,000 West Ham United
Milan Baros August 2005 6,500,000 Aston Villa
Djibril Cisse July 2007 6,000,000 Marseille
Luis Garcia July 2007 4,000,000 Atletico Madrid
John Arne Riise June 2008 4,000,000 AS Roma
Scott Carson July 18 2008 4,000,000 West Bromwich Albion
Alvaro Arbeloa 29 July 2009 3,500,000 Real Madrid
Mark Gonzalez July 2007 3,500,000 Real Betis
El Hadji Diouf June 2005 3,500,000 Bolton Wanderers
Chris Kirkland January 2007 3,500,000 Wigan Athletic
Fernando Morientes May 2006 3,100,000 Valencia
Florent Sinama-Pongolle May 2007 2,700,000 Recreativo Huelva
Danny Murphy August 2004 2,500,000 Charlton Athletic
Danny Guthrie July 2008 2,250,000 Newcastle United
Alou Diarra June 2005 2,000,000 Lens
Djimi Traore August 2006 2,000,000 Charlton Athletic
Antonio Nunez August 2005 2,000,000 Celta Vigo
Jan Kromkamp August 2006 2,000,000 PSV Eindhoven
Stephen Warnock January 2007 1,200,000 Blackburn Rovers
Antonio Barragan August 2006 680,000 Deportivo La Coruna
Neil Mellor August 2006 500,000 Preston North End
Paul Anderson June 30 2009 250,000 Nottingham Forest
Darren Potter January 2007 250,000 Wolverhampton Wanderers
Danny O'Donnell June 2007 100,000 Crewe Alexandra
Ramon Calliste May 2006 0 Released
Gary Mackay Steven June 2009 0
Miki Roque June 2009 0 Released
Robbie Foy May 2006 0 Released
Mark Smyth June 2005 0 Accrington Stanley
Jay Smith December 2007 0 Stockport County
Marvin Pourie January 2009 0 Schalke
Craig Lindfield August 2009 0 Released
Adam Hammill August 2009 0 Barnsley
Ryan Crowther August 2009 0 Released
Besian Idrizaj 31 January 2008 0 Wacker Tirol
Sebastian Leto 1 JUly 2009 0 Panathinaikos
Gregory Vignal July 2005 0 Portsmouth
Paul Willis May 2006 0 Released
Calum Woods May 2006 0 Dunfermline
Ryan Wilkie May 2006 0 Released
Ronald Huth June 2009 0
Robbie Fowler June 2007 0 Released
Dave Roberts June 2007 0 Released
David Mannix January 2007 0 Released
Godwin Antwi June 2009 0 Released
Jack Hobbs May 2009 0 Leicester City
Carl Medjani July 2006 0 L'Orient
Mauricio Pellegrino June 2005 0 CD Alaves
Igor Biscan June 2005 0 Panathinaikos
Jose Miguel Gonzalez Rey (Josemi) January 2006 0 Villareal
Jerzy Dudek June 2007 0 Released
Patrice Luzi July 2005 0 Released
Jon Otsemobor June 2005 0 Rotherham United
John Welsh January 2006 0 Hull City
Anthony Le Tallec 1 July 2008 0
Steve Finnan September 1 2008 0 Espanyol
Harry Kewell June 2008 0 Galatasaray
Salif Diao January 2007 0 Stoke City
David Raven July 2006 0 Carlisle United
Markus Babbel July 2004 0 VFB Stuttgart
Paul Harrison June 2005 0 Wolverhampton Wanderers
Richie Partridge June 2005 0 Sheffield Wednesday
Zak Whitbread June 2006 0 Millwall
Lee Peltier 31 January 2008 0 Yeovil Town
Gabriel Paletta August 2007 0 Boca Juniors
Jermaine Pennant July 1 2009 0 Released
Dietmar Hamann July 2006 0 Bolton Wanderers
Sami Hyypia 30 June 2009 0 Bayer Leverkusen
Vladimir Smicer June 2005 0 Bordeaux
Boudewijn Zenden June 2007 0 Marseille
Stephane Henchoz January 2005 0 Celtic
Bruno Cheyrou July 2006 0 Rennes

Apologies the list is abit hard to read but I didn't want to spend hours re-arranging it. When deciding on the players that Rafa should have kept I did not include Xabi and Hyppia who were big losses as it was the players who wanted to leave and there is nothing much you can do if a player is unhappy and wanted to move. I would've also put Dietmar Hamann in as he could still peform for us when we first sold him but then again we had many midfielders back then and it seemed a logical choice.

IMO these are the players Rafa should have kept and who could've strengthened our team squad:

Craig Bellamy - as shown by his peformances for City he's a decent back-up striker even though he's not really top 4 club material

Luis Garcia - very annoying to watch sometimes but he scores goals and bring unpredictability. A big game peformer

John Arne Riise - maybe it was time for him to move on. But our current LB's are not much improvement from Riise. Besides I never really did have much problems for his so called defensive incapabilities plus he scored goals.

Sinama Pongolle - a young player who was up for it whenever he played. Would've been interesting to see how he developed. Certainly has better attitude than Babel.

Steve Finan - was a very polished right back and Arbeloa wasn't much improvement from Finan. Glen Johnson is an improvement but I would rather have an aging Finan as back-up than injury prone Degan.

So it's 5 players out of 70 odd players sold or shipped out... I don't think Rafa did too bad here. I'm sure some of you will have your own list of players who we should've kept... so your thoughts pls...

There aren't too many on that list (with the exception of Xabi and Sami) that you really regret going but there are certainly a few that probably deserved more opportunities or were better than the players brought in to replace them.

Crouch - I think Rafa wanted to keep him but he needed to play the lad more if that was going to happen.

Sinama-Pongolle - I thought he was unlucky not to get more playing time and he was arguably a better player than the strikers who remained at the club at the time of his sale.

Guthrie - I like(d) Danny and he's gone on to play very well for Saints and Bolton (on loan) and now at Newcastle. Il Lucas a better player? I'm not so sure.

Murphy - Deffo would have made a contribution in Rafa's first couple of seasons and as Carra says in his book, he was too quick to accept the route out when the Charlton bid came in. I'd certainly have him back now!

Riise - I thought at the time it was probably time for Jonny to move on such was the downturn in his confidence and form but we haven't really filled the left back spot and the £7 million the club paid for Dossena is a joke when you think Roma got Jonny for just £4 mill.

by **tubby** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:01 pm

The only player Rafa should have kept was probably Crouch but Peter asked to leave so it wasnt really Rafas fault.

by **heimdall** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:33 pm

bavlondon wrote:The only player Rafa should have kept was probably Crouch but Peter asked to leave so it wasnt really Rafas fault.

I'm not surprised the way Rafa treated him. That really showed up Rafa's lack of man-management.

by **GYBS** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:35 pm

Left back slot - surely we have filled that very well with both Aurelio and Insua

Guthrie is now playing his at correct standard imo Scott and Lucas is a far better player

by **Scottbot** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:15 pm

GYBS wrote:Guthrie is now playing his at correct standard imo Scott and Lucas is a far better player

I don't think there is much to choose between them. They are both tidy, combative players who keep it simple and are below the level needed to be a first team starter at this club.

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:22 pm

maguskwt wrote:I'm not sure about that bigmick. The add-ons will be hard to quantify as of this moment because they haven't happened yet. But aquilani's fees stated seem to have the add-ons included because we didn't pay the stated 20 millions...so I believe the list includes whatever add-ons that they managed to quantify...

See it not so much as an actual payment record, but of an amount that the club is prepared to pay overall, or a maximum cost if you like. So if Aquilani were to cost £5m plus two payments of £5m a year and £5m for appearances, goals and trophies then it will be a maximum of £20m.

Unless someone is privy to what the clauses are, the details of instalments etc then it's just simpler to accept it is £20m than argue the toss about how much of it has been paid etc. Why try to dress up an expensive acquisition as a cheap one? Because it softens the blow of people saying he (will) cost the final sum figure. Keane may have cost £19 + £1.3m add-ons, but if the add-ons had clicked in then he would cost £20.3m overall. For all we know some of the fees cited as exact "up front" payments include unknown clauses, it's rather a waste of time continually debating the actual cost and easier just to accept the commonly accepted figure

by **Owzat** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:58 pm

I would have liked to have seen the following given longer/still be here :-

In no particular order, and circumstances of departure less taken into account than some might

Stephen Warnock. Came up through the ranks, we didn't seem to keen to throw silly money at full-backs until Glen Johnson and our problems at LB have not been solved by chopping and changing, we've had loads - Traore, Warnock, Riise, Insua, Aurelio, Vignal, Ziege, Carragher to name a few in the last decade or so

Florent Sinama-Pongolle. Maybe didn't make a huge impression, but did score a few vital goals and had promise. I doubt he'd have been as great as Houllier thought he would be, but I'd have preferred some stability and he was young

Xabi Alonso. Our system worked with him, I'm not so convinced it works so well without. I think it was too difficult to keep him once Real Madrid came a calling.

Robbie Fowler. He came back on a free, provided an option off the bench and might well have been happy playing a lesser role in cups and off the bench with the odd start.

Could probably with a bit more time come up with one or two more. I don't think Crouch is what we needed, sure he had a good touch for a big man, but no thanks to long ball target man tactics and one hat-trick against the goners aside, not enough scoring against the big guns. Good player maybe, Liverpool good player probably not. Those saying he should still be here may be seeing his time here with them odd coloured glasses on.

by **Sabre** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:04 pm

woof woof ! wrote:IF there was a way we could have kept them I'd have hung onto

Alonso, an obvious one of course, although if we had kept him we wouldn't have had the cash to buy Johnson which in turn might have meant we'd have had to try and hang onto Arbeloa, unless of course we'd raised the money by unloading Mascherano (instead of Alonso).

Warnock, a more than handy squad player, in the present squad I'd rate him on a par with Insua, (Aurellio's my first choice LB)

Crouch, almost criminal that he was virtually driven out of the club, after leaving us goalwise he again proved his scoring ability at Portsmouth and he'll get another bag full with Spurs this season.

Garcia, drove me mad at times but loved him for the magic he sometimes produced, a bit of a luxury perhaps but imo worth it.

If we still had those players I'd say we were on again for another credible tilt at the title.

I'd remove Warnock, because I haven't seen enough of him since he left, and Garcia, who has failed to impress in Spain and hopefully proves his worth in Santander this season.

I would have kept Crouch, but that seemed difficult. I would have tried to keep Xabi happier, but well, at least we beat the transfer record of the club (right?).

I would have tried to keep Hyypia one year more, instead of bringing the Greek.

I would have tried to keep Hamman one year or two more, but he wanted first team football.

I would have tried to have Finnan as a sub of Johnson in order not to use options like Skrtel or Carra on the RB. Finnan should have ended his career here, not failing in Espanyol.

And out of the rest of the posts, I'd rescue the name of Sinama Pongolle: he is a better option than Ngog right now... he's the sub of better strikers (Aguero, Forlan) and in that role he'd be a better choice than Ngog.

In conclussion, some of these professionals, as good professionals they are, are not happy in secondary roles and it was a difficult task to keep'em.

In the case of ALonso, there seems to be an incompatibility of characters, and Rafa might have dealt things in another manner. But at least he got a good money for him.

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:45 pm

Hyypia was offered a contract and rejected it

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:10 pm

Scottbot wrote:
GYBS wrote:Guthrie is now playing his at correct standard imo Scott and Lucas is a far better player

I don't think there is much to choose between them. They are both tidy, combative players who keep it simple and are below the level needed to be a first team starter at this club.

the diffrence is Guthrie cost us nothing while Lucas cost £7m! Guthrie could have dont the same job and we could of used that money to buy someone decent.

by **GYBS** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:16 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
GYBS wrote:Guthrie is now playing his at correct standard imo Scott and Lucas is a far better player

I don't think there is much to choose between them. They are both tidy, combative players who keep it simple and are below the level needed to be a first team starter at this club.

the diffrence is Guthrie cost us nothing while Lucas cost £7m! Guthrie could have dont the same job and we could of used that money to buy someone decent.

I dont think Guthrie can do the same job as Lucas - think he is playing at the standard for his abilities - championship . he didnt show much at bolton nor at newcastle to show he could play cm in a top 4 club in the prem . Spearing is better than guthrie .

by **DrPepe** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:19 pm

where the f.ck is Guthrie now? man utd?

by **GYBS** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:22 pm

At Newcastle now mate

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