Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:26 pm

Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers (we had Owen, Cisse and Baros who were all very promising at that time) that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:29 pm

maguskwt wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

errrrrr... how was he treated like ?

Baros is a player who excelled with his national team mates but who failed to be equally successful in his clubs. Because he is very one dimensional... he annoys me even more than Garcia did because he always puts his head down and run without being aware of what's happening on other parts of the pitch... I didn't really like Cisse but I believe that Cisse is a much better player than Baros was...

No way is Cisse a better player than Baros.
Not keen on the czech but cisse is all pace and nothing else.
To be fair though i actually wouldnt have kept either of them, despite them being better than all of our current strikers (except Torres).

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:30 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

errrrrr... how was he treated like ?

Baros is a player who excelled with his national team mates but who failed to be equally successful in his clubs. Because he is very one dimensional... he annoys me even more than Garcia did because he always puts his head down and run without being aware of what's happening on other parts of the pitch... I didn't really like Cisse but I believe that Cisse is a much better player than Baros was...

No way is Cisse a better player than Baros.
Not keen on the czech but cisse is all pace and nothing else.
To be fair though i actually wouldnt have kept either of them, despite them being better than all of our current strikers (except Torres).

I prefer Kuyt to both of them...

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:31 pm

maguskwt wrote:Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

I can't say I have heard that one....... but doesn't mean its not true.

He had fought for his place against better strikers than what Liverpool had at the time though.

He had fought for his place against Heskey, Fowler, Baros and Litmanen, so I can't see him being frightened of fighting for his place against Baros, Mellor, Cisse ansd Pongole to be honest

He may have been "upset" that Heskey had been sold as Heskey had always been his "preferred partner?" and maybe he had had a look at Cisse and decided that it was never going to work!

by **Ben Patrick** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:35 pm

maguskwt wrote:
Ben Patrick wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
bigmick wrote:Almost all the players mentioned would probably improve our squad as of now, but to be fair both Baros and Cisse would instantly become our second best strikers if we signed them tomorrow as well, such is the weakness in some areas of the squad.

I knew i wasn't baros' only fan here....

Seriously....he top scored in the European cup...was on the top of the world...But then like Cisse, Crouch, Keane & Bellamy he was treated like $**T.........

errrrrr... how was he treated like ?

Baros is a player who excelled with his national team mates but who failed to be equally successful in his clubs. Because he is very one dimensional... he annoys me even more than Garcia did because he always puts his head down and run without being aware of what's happening on other parts of the pitch... I didn't really like Cisse but I believe that Cisse is a much better player than Baros was...

No way is Cisse a better player than Baros.
Not keen on the czech but cisse is all pace and nothing else.
To be fair though i actually wouldnt have kept either of them, despite them being better than all of our current strikers (except Torres).

I prefer Kuyt to both of them...

Both of those if played as a striker for us would outscore Kuyt imo.
But i would have Dirk on the right over them, and prefer him overall deffo.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:37 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

I can't say I have heard that one....... but doesn't mean its not true.

He had fought for his place against better strikers than what Liverpool had at the time though.

He had fought for his place against Heskey, Fowler, Baros and Litmanen, so I can't see him being frightened of fighting for his place against Baros, Mellor, Cisse ansd Pongole to be honest

He didn't fight for his place under Houllier, he was considered an automatic choice... Owen was Houllier's darling similar to Kuyt being Rafa's

... well I can't give you the proper referencing of this claim without spendig hours on research but I believe I definitely read that somewhere... my point was that though it is not that he was scared to compete with Cisse and Baros it was most probably his ego was affected and at the same time he was lured by Real Madrid... as I've always said though I don't think I can blame him for that... but I do blame him for jumping at the opportunity to join the mancs though...

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:46 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

I can't say I have heard that one....... but doesn't mean its not true.

He had fought for his place against better strikers than what Liverpool had at the time though.

He had fought for his place against Heskey, Fowler, Baros and Litmanen, so I can't see him being frightened of fighting for his place against Baros, Mellor, Cisse ansd Pongole to be honest

He didn't fight for his place under Houllier, he was considered an automatic choice... Owen was Houllier's darling similar to Kuyt being Rafa's ... well I can't give you the proper referencing of this claim without spendig hours on research but I believe I definitely read that somewhere... my point was that though it is not that he was scared to compete with Cisse and Baros it was most probably his ego was affected and at the same time he was lured by Real Madrid... as I've always said though I don't think I can blame him for that... but I do blame him for jumping at the opportunity to join the mancs though...

The automatic first choice under Houllier was actually Heskey! Houllier thought that Owen and Fowler couldn't play together so he tended to play Heskey with either Owen OR Fowler.

e.g. 2000/2001 Fowler 48 apps, Owen 46 apps Heskey 56 apps

2001/2002 Fowler 17 apps(sold november), Owen 43 apps Heskey 56 apps Litmanen 32 apps

2002/2003 Heskey 52 apps Owen 54 apps (now Fowler had gone!)

by **Greavesie** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:05 pm

2002/2003 Heskey 52 apps Owen 54 apps (now Fowler had gone!)

kinell Owen managed 54 apps in a single season!

by **Greavesie** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 6:09 pm

Alonso and any of Keane, Bellamy or Crouch. Possibly Warnock as cover as well.

But thats pretty much it

by **maguskwt** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:42 am

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

I can't say I have heard that one....... but doesn't mean its not true.

He had fought for his place against better strikers than what Liverpool had at the time though.

He had fought for his place against Heskey, Fowler, Baros and Litmanen, so I can't see him being frightened of fighting for his place against Baros, Mellor, Cisse ansd Pongole to be honest

He didn't fight for his place under Houllier, he was considered an automatic choice... Owen was Houllier's darling similar to Kuyt being Rafa's ... well I can't give you the proper referencing of this claim without spendig hours on research but I believe I definitely read that somewhere... my point was that though it is not that he was scared to compete with Cisse and Baros it was most probably his ego was affected and at the same time he was lured by Real Madrid... as I've always said though I don't think I can blame him for that... but I do blame him for jumping at the opportunity to join the mancs though...

The automatic first choice under Houllier was actually Heskey! Houllier thought that Owen and Fowler couldn't play together so he tended to play Heskey with either Owen OR Fowler.

e.g. 2000/2001 Fowler 48 apps, Owen 46 apps Heskey 56 apps

2001/2002 Fowler 17 apps(sold november), Owen 43 apps Heskey 56 apps Litmanen 32 apps

2002/2003 Heskey 52 apps Owen 54 apps (now Fowler had gone!)

truth be told... I didn't remember it that way Saint (not the stats but Heskey being first choice)... Owen was first choice as long as he was fit... he had a few hamstring injury lay-offs back then and that is why his appearances were reduced. Heskey on the other hand was fit most of the time and in one season he stepped up while Owen was injured with 20 goals or sometihng. Stats don't really tell the whole story...

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:39 am

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:Wasn't Owen also not happy about not being considered automatic first choice? Rafa apparently told the strikers that they're all not automatic first choice and that they needed to fight for their places... which was fair IMO... for what it's worth Owen didn't seem to want to fight for his place and he wanted instant success by joing Real Madrid...

I can't say I have heard that one....... but doesn't mean its not true.

He had fought for his place against better strikers than what Liverpool had at the time though.

He had fought for his place against Heskey, Fowler, Baros and Litmanen, so I can't see him being frightened of fighting for his place against Baros, Mellor, Cisse ansd Pongole to be honest

He didn't fight for his place under Houllier, he was considered an automatic choice... Owen was Houllier's darling similar to Kuyt being Rafa's ... well I can't give you the proper referencing of this claim without spendig hours on research but I believe I definitely read that somewhere... my point was that though it is not that he was scared to compete with Cisse and Baros it was most probably his ego was affected and at the same time he was lured by Real Madrid... as I've always said though I don't think I can blame him for that... but I do blame him for jumping at the opportunity to join the mancs though...

The automatic first choice under Houllier was actually Heskey! Houllier thought that Owen and Fowler couldn't play together so he tended to play Heskey with either Owen OR Fowler.

e.g. 2000/2001 Fowler 48 apps, Owen 46 apps Heskey 56 apps

2001/2002 Fowler 17 apps(sold november), Owen 43 apps Heskey 56 apps Litmanen 32 apps

2002/2003 Heskey 52 apps Owen 54 apps (now Fowler had gone!)

truth be told... I didn't remember it that way Saint (not the stats but Heskey being first choice)... Owen was first choice as long as he was fit... he had a few hamstring injury lay-offs back then and that is why his appearances were reduced. Heskey on the other hand was fit most of the time and in one season he stepped up while Owen was injured with 20 goals or sometihng. Stats don't really tell the whole story...

Yet out of the three strikers Heskey was the one that started EVERY FINAL of the triple season with Owen on the bench for one final and Fowler on the bench for the other two. (no injuries) Certainly in my opinion Owen earned his place in the team and wasn't given it as some blue eyed boy anyway. He also left Liverpool to join Real Madrid, if he was frightened of not being first choice at Liverpool I think he could have found an easier club to join?

I think Owen has always had a lot of faith in his ability, and it seems very unlikely to me he would be frightened of fighting for his place at Liverpool at the time.

Frustrated with the lack of success, annoyed that Liverpool had little money, maybe disappointed that we didn't get the English manager that he had hoped for, and ambitious enough to want to win more trophies are perhaps some of the reasons he left...... frightened of losing his place.....nah.

by **maguskwt** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:25 am

never said he was frightened... but it's a bit ludricous to think that Owen "fought" for his place under Houllier... He never really had competition... maybe Fowler had to fight for it but never Owen...

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:11 am

So he was just given his place in the team because he was the managers favourite ? Presumably he was also chosen in front of Heskey and Fowler for England as well because he was the managers favourite :laugh:

I think we will have to agree to disagree

by **devaney** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:38 am

maguskwt wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Havent we done this before?

Nothing else to talk about? Its really getting boring now.

have not seen it...

well let's talk about rotation then? or how Rafa is destroying MY club by being defensive and not treating players well?

No I think Ciggy should start a thread on takeover Talks if he thinks this this is a tad boring!

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:02 am

Hyppia, Alonso, Warnock, Keane, Risse, Bellamy, Garcia and the mighty Potter (I am having a laugh, someone else put him in earlier and I thought it was a bit of a joke I mean did he ever get a first team game?) I know there are reasons for Sammi and Xabi to go but I think we could have done more to keep Sammi in particular, as our defence is decidedly dodgy this season and the cover is sub-standard. Sammi although lacking pace was a great reader of the game, excellent in the air both defensively and in attack. We could have kept him on and offered him a coaching role as part of the deal.... central defenders of his quality are few and far between.

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