Liverpool FC Forum

by **Homebooby** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:38 am

Sabre wrote:Homebooby, I kind of agree you.

My main explanation to how Carraguer's playing is not age. And I agree you that in the position of CB, analysing the partnership, and not only the player is the right thing to do.

Some mistakes of yesterday cannot be explained only with age. There was lack of concentration, there were nervous details, and the root of it might be that the partnership doesn't work and we've conceded too many goals this season from our mistakes.

Agger is the player I want to see regularly, but in the mean time I think it's the time to bench either Carra or Skrtel. And between that two, I'd sit Skrtel first.

Not often someone agrees with my ignorance

I think we owe it Carragher to stick with him.

by **kunilson** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:02 pm

carra is still our best defender.

but not on recent performances....we have made too many mstakes collectively and individually, and you can see the nerves everytime a ball is punted into our box or someone with pace makes a run towards our box.
Carra is usually consistent, but his few glaring mistakes may unsettle not only himself but others that look to him to steady the ship. We need to get our confidence back and quick.

And all this zonal marking debate. we have used it well, and had one of the best defences for a while under rafa.......it has not suddenly stopped working, we're just not executing it as well. Or maybe teams are starting to find ways around it....but it's not something we cannot handle, i think the problems with it go hand in hand with how confident the defence is

by **Scottbot** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:18 pm

bigmick wrote:
metalhead wrote:We need a top class CB, we should go for that Hangelaand fella from Fulham, whatever the price, let G+H fork 15m for him.

I saw him last season MH and liked him, but sometimes it can be a bit risky buying a player after one good season. If he's as good as he looked though, then he could be the one. I think Arsenal had a real good look at him in the Summer, and unless it goes pear shaped for him someone will take a punt on him before long I should think.

To be totally honest though I think it will be a big punt, I don't think you'll get him for less than 20 million quid if you went in in January.

He's a top player, I would have loved us to have signed, likewise Turner or Shawcross. If Agger can't get himself fit I'd hope there might be some REAL money for a centre-half in January.

by **bigmick** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:22 pm

On the question of zonal marking from set-pieces, we surely at some point are going to have to have a look at the way we are doing things. Yes I've been a staunch advocate in the past, and yes I believe in the system, but it's not good enough just to say "well it's worked for us in the past" and to plough blindly on. It's definately not working for us now, and before people jump in and say "it's the players" I know it's the players, but to be frank I don't really care who's fault it is, we have to find a way of defending free-kicks and corners which doesn't make us look likely to concede a goal every ten minutes.

Playing with a bean-pole striker worked for us in the past, but it didn't stop us from buying Torres. Mass rotation very occasionally worked in the past, but it hasn't stopped us (eventually than God) getting more sensible. Now whether the problem is the players don't believe in it, don't understand it, are actually just sh!t or whether the opposition have found ways to work around it is for the manager to work out. As Owzat says though on another thread, if we don't/can't/won't work it out then he is culpable.

I don't care whether we stick with the system or ditch it, but we have to get more secure. Feck knows how we're going to cope with the likes of John Terry, Vidic and Cahill attacking set plays. The way we are right now it'd be a free for all. Ultimately we must make the system work or ditch it and try something else.

by **bigmick** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:25 pm

Scottbot wrote:
bigmick wrote:
metalhead wrote:We need a top class CB, we should go for that Hangelaand fella from Fulham, whatever the price, let G+H fork 15m for him.

I saw him last season MH and liked him, but sometimes it can be a bit risky buying a player after one good season. If he's as good as he looked though, then he could be the one. I think Arsenal had a real good look at him in the Summer, and unless it goes pear shaped for him someone will take a punt on him before long I should think.

To be totally honest though I think it will be a big punt, I don't think you'll get him for less than 20 million quid if you went in in January.

He's a top player, I would have loved us to have signed, likewise Turner or Shawcross. If Agger can't get himself fit I'd hope there might be some REAL money for a centre-half in January.

I watched the Sunderland day today Scott (largely to watch Darren Bent) and Turner was very poor. He was definately culpable for Nugents first, and probably his second as well, although his captain kind of got in the way and didn't do him any favours. Doesn't mean he's sh!t or anything, but I liked him for Hull against Chelsea and thought he was awful in this match.

Pretty hard for me to make my mind up based on that. I've seen Shawcross a couple of times though and think he's the better of the two.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:50 pm

If I was going for a young CB I would probably go for Sakho. Excellent in the air, quick and can tackle. If going for a little more experience either of Hangerland or Upson would do.

Personally I think people are as usual remembering Agger a little too fondly(as always seems the case when someone is out for a while). Yes he is good going forward, but he is no better than Carra or Skrtel in the air and perhaps the easiest of the three to be "outmuscled".

by **Scottbot** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:59 pm

bigmick wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
bigmick wrote:
metalhead wrote:We need a top class CB, we should go for that Hangelaand fella from Fulham, whatever the price, let G+H fork 15m for him.

I saw him last season MH and liked him, but sometimes it can be a bit risky buying a player after one good season. If he's as good as he looked though, then he could be the one. I think Arsenal had a real good look at him in the Summer, and unless it goes pear shaped for him someone will take a punt on him before long I should think.

To be totally honest though I think it will be a big punt, I don't think you'll get him for less than 20 million quid if you went in in January.

He's a top player, I would have loved us to have signed, likewise Turner or Shawcross. If Agger can't get himself fit I'd hope there might be some REAL money for a centre-half in January.

I watched the Sunderland day today Scott (largely to watch Darren Bent) and Turner was very poor. He was definately culpable for Nugents first, and probably his second as well, although his captain kind of got in the way and didn't do him any favours. Doesn't mean he's sh!t or anything, but I liked him for Hull against Chelsea and thought he was awful in this match.

Pretty hard for me to make my mind up based on that. I've seen Shawcross a couple of times though and think he's the better of the two.

Yeah I saw it too as my father in law is Sunderland to the bone and he didn't have the best 2nd half (although he was playing with the dodgy Anton Ferdinand!) but i still think he would have been a good buy. Agree on Shawcross who looks a good prospect plus he was schooled at utd so he can play a bit.

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:36 pm

Meself personaly i think Carragher knows hes stuggling, Wont do him any harm at all imo, once Agger gets back to not have him down as one of the first on the team sheet, We all know he not a gifted footballer, but a player with a football brain positioning wise an big heart whos has got us out of trouble countless times, but sadly an im not jumping here because of yesterday , this was noticable last season an all, Maybe its time that once Agger is back 100 per cent fit , to use Jamie like we did with Sammi, Didnt do Sammi any harm , remember Utd, i hope im wrong though an he proves me to be a beaut, but to many mistakes are being made an it could prove to be costly,

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:50 pm

1-1 Tevez

by **Greavesie** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:52 pm

NANNY RED wrote: 1-1 Tevez

by **Nando26** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:34 pm

Personally id bring (try to) in Mertersacker & Chiellini to strenghten our centre defense. Other good options would be Kjaer, Richards, Shawcross as young back-ups

I think Carra is at that point in his career now where hed benefit from getting a rest say every 1 game for every 4 he plays like we did with Hyypia when he started to get on. I love carra hes on of my favourite players but age is something that catches up on all of us

Agree about Gerrard i cxant for the life of me (especially when we had xabi who could deliver a better cross anyway) hes never been used in the box, with his build & heading ability i believe he could get 4-8 goals a season for us from set pieces

by **RedRoots** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:50 pm

devaney wrote:I know Sammy wanted to go because Rafa told him he wouldn't get regular first team football! HOW MUCH DO WE NEED SAMMY NOW? HIS PERFORMANCE AGAINST MAN U LAST SEASON SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH FOR RAFA TO REALISE THAT HE WAS A MASSIVELY IMPORTANT PART OF THE TEAM. DID RAFA MAKE SAMMY FEEL THAT HE WAS - DID HE FK!

I know Alonso went because he was made to feel about as wanted as a hole in a Jonny at the end of the 2007/2008 season! AND WHAT DID RAFA DO AFTER XABI'S STAND OUT 2008/2009 SEASON? Rafa once again simply failed to perform as a manager should and keep his best assets! Rafa couldn't even persuade Xabi to stay for a year and help us win the title for ffs!

Stevie G nearly went ffs to Chelsea of all fkng places! A PICTURE IS EMERGING. LFC CAN NO LONGER GUARANTEE THAT IT CAN HOLD ONTO IT'S FINEST ASSETS. Mascherano to Barca at the end of the season? Torres get's offered a crazy deal and the club have the opportunity to sell him for £80m - what would happen? is everybody convinced that we wouldn't sell him? I'm not!

Fk I know I am sounding like a right moaning cnt but to be honest I am fed up with the incredibly stubborn approach taken by Rafa and some of his useless tactics and inept man management skills. MAYBE IT IS TIME FOR A CHANGE OF MANAGEMENT because frankly I think we are going backwards. My only hope that Aquilani is a fkg miracle worker if he ever plays! At least Keane the useless tw.at did at least get on the pitch!

RANT OVER!

What a load of bollox, LFC losing its finest assets?

Did we lose Gerrard? NO

Did we lose Masch? NO

Did we cash in on the 60 million that was on the table for Torres this summer? NO

Are you a clown? YES

by **Reg** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:10 pm

We sold Sami and got The Greek. The only difference Sami would have played and The Greek isnt.

by **Zidane** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:16 am

If we're gonna be leaking goals from set pieces like we are I'd rather the greek play against the lesser teams since that is almost always the only way they manage to score on us.

by **Penguins** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:14 am

Problem is we have spent 6.5 million as our most expensive CB which is very little compared to our rivals and we have spent alot more on fullbacks than CB.
Oversimplification yes, but top class CB cost alot like all quality players does.

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