Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:41 am

s@int wrote:
babu wrote:I don't really want to get into this debate..

but I wanted to mention this video I came across. I work in the Halal industry and Islamic Services including Banking.

I came across this u-tube video, its produced by Christians and it is basically a call to halt the Islamicisation of the World. However, in my opinion it does the opposite. It supports the point of view it is inevitable. I have used elements of this video to convince many companies, MNCs and a few governments to start investing in the Halal industry.

Check it out:
You Tube Video

Its people like Dawson that are causing the problem Babu, you can't expect me to father the next generation all on my own.

Seriously there is definately a problem in the West over birth rates. A lot of my friends said years ago that they had decided not to have any children, and most of them haven't. I think a lot choose freedom, holidays and possessions rather than have a family.

Why should not having children be considered a problem though?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:43 am

metalhead wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:As for Ramadan - why should you have to do that? Why should you fast? It's another case of causing people to suffer in the name of religion. Yes, they feel good once completed, but what about the fat kid who can't resist a Penguin bar during Morning break? How's he going to feel?

I'm not saying that it isn't for a good cause. I'm not saying I can't see the virtue in it.

What I am saying is I don't think it's right, and I don't want it ramming down my throat at every God-given opportunity.

Who's ramming it down your throat at every opportunity?

You mightn't think it's normal, mate, but surely you can accept that people hold radically different interpretations of the world to your own? And, if those practices aren't interfering with your own life (how could they?), then surely you shouldn't have a problem?

Like I said, I have no problem with any race/religion provided they don't try to change my life to fit in with theirs.

By the same token, I have my own views on each religion and I misguidedly thought that this was a reasonable place to air them. It obviously isn't, and all that this discussion will result in is my offending someone without meaning to.

I don't mind offending people by calling them a "c*nt".

I won't offend someone for the sake of it, though.

Again - as far as I am concerned, everyone can do whatever they like, provided it doesn't interfere unduly with me and mine.

And I am truly sorry if my views on religion and immigration have offended anyone. I just find it difficult to rationalise many of the practices and new laws - I accept that this is my own problem and I shouldn't disparage such things simply because of it. I do not have a problem with any of the nations of Europe and would happily visit each and every one of them as I believe they are all so different to Britain and would offer new, individual experiences.

I could even find it in my heart to like a Man Utd fan...

I'm just pointing out what your saying wrong, or how your views are misinterpreted. I don't think many muslims would want you to become a muslim because they are trying to make an islam world, many don't give a f*ck what your religion is or your beliefs. Now extremists are different kind of story, they are nut jobs who thinks that an Islam world will be a better world, free from the fake gods (alcohol, sex and money), but thats not the case. Now if you get into a discussion with an extremist, I suggest you just tell him ''your right and i'm wrong, now f*ck off'' and that will be that

You can do whatever you like lando, no one is going to stop you, and besides god's greatest gift to mankind is Free Will!

See, dude - I get the feeling we're the same deep down:

"I'm right, you're wrong - but f*ck it - I still like you."

by **Lando_Griffin** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:45 am

bigmick wrote:I missed whatever happened to make Lando edit his posts

It was my own conscience.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:47 am

Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:
babu wrote:I don't really want to get into this debate..

but I wanted to mention this video I came across. I work in the Halal industry and Islamic Services including Banking.

I came across this u-tube video, its produced by Christians and it is basically a call to halt the Islamicisation of the World. However, in my opinion it does the opposite. It supports the point of view it is inevitable. I have used elements of this video to convince many companies, MNCs and a few governments to start investing in the Halal industry.

Check it out:
You Tube Video

Its people like Dawson that are causing the problem Babu, you can't expect me to father the next generation all on my own.

Seriously there is definately a problem in the West over birth rates. A lot of my friends said years ago that they had decided not to have any children, and most of them haven't. I think a lot choose freedom, holidays and possessions rather than have a family.

Why should not having children be considered a problem though?

If we all started thinking that way Bob there soon wouldn't be anyone left to think that way! Look what happened to the dinosaurs once they started preferring new cars to having kids.

by **Kharhaz** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:15 am

One thing I find amazing, with everyones point of view is how long each and every persons view isnt new. Take any opinion in this thread and this is not a new opinion, its been around for years. And always, at the centre of the problem, are people who can attempt to solve this problem, but they never do. Take this quote from George Orwells 1984 novell Regarding High Class, Middle Class and Low Class.

"The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim - for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives - is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal."

The arguments, differences and views in this thread are nothing new. Indeed the actions each of us take are also nothing new. It all remains the same. Each and every person has a view on how things are and it this that is keeping this world rolling along on the same cycle throughout each generation. The one simple fact that will continue is this, we will always have an inept government, there will always be a difference amongst people, their will always be different views but one thing that will be guaranteed to continue, amongst all members on here...there is absolutely sod all we can do to change it.

Just look into the past at the people who tried.

by **redbeergoggles** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:27 am

LFC2007 wrote:
dawson99 wrote:u do know that the people running the mosque chose this day as its opening as well? oh u didnt?

well then, get off the high chir and join the rest of us dude

My understanding - from what I've read - is this:

"Protesters from the Stop Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) group were involved in a demonstration outside a mosque in Harrow, north east London, to mark the anniversary of the September 11 attacks."

- PA

In any case, their tactics are clear enough. If you think the general response - one of anger - from sections of the Muslim community and anti-fascist groups was without just cause, perhaps you ought to consider what it is that aroused such a backlash in the first place.

You're a Christian. If a group of 16 men turned up at your place of worship campaigning for an end to your religion in Britain, I suspect you'd have something to say about it.

I'm a Catholic and what is becoming more and more disconcerting is the amount of Churches that are closing all across Britain, through an apparent lack of funds being made available ,yet the more affluent Muslim community are building Mosques in disproportionate numbers ,so to make a statement like the one you just proffered is naive to say the least ,(How many Catholic churches do you see being built in Islamic countries ?).

If you wish to fall into a regime of conformity fella all well and good ,but just because a handful of British citizens have the belief that what is happening to their Country doesn't exactly sit right with them, and they possess a big enough set of gonads to push this point home ,surely their opinion merits a little respect also ? , you have made it glaringly obvious your convictions lie with the bleeding heart Liberal set , and are seemingly oblivious to the powder keg of hatred this country is gradually evolving into, so keep hiding behind your curtains fella, because the current mindset of the average Joe, has the Government running scared ,what started out as a small minority and a figure of jest has grew into a blueprint for a new set of ideals ,and although the Government and Media have poured scorn on these and wrongly bracketed them as Racists ,they are gathering a serious momentum amongst the common people ,and although I don't advocate these ideals personally, I am not blinkered enough to warrant that the present state of this Country will not fuel unreservedly a colossal swing in their favour over the coming years.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:52 am

Rather than going off on a general rant, if you could explain exactly why the comment(s) I've made are 'naive', what it is that leads you to believe that I am a 'bleeding heart liberal' (and if you could provide me with your definition of that term, that'd be great too) who 'hides behind curtains' and who desires to 'fall into a regime of conformity', then it would help me in my response.

Your first paragraph in particular is bizarre as it seems to bear no relation to anything I've said.

The sentence you make about other people's views meriting respect seems to be implying that I haven't given consideration to the views of others (who, specifically?), which - if that is what you are suggesting - is nonsense. The remainder is a continuation of a general theme that tries to pigeon hole my views.

I'm more than happy to discuss this topic with you, mate, but if you go off on a very general rant you leave me little to go on by way of reply. I can't add anything else unless you substantiate your propositions.

by **taff** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:01 am

I would love to disagree with Redbeergoggles but Im afraid he and Bigmick earlier have hit the nail on the head. People in this country genuinely feel that they have no voice except when the BNP etc are listening. This although repairable is a very serious situation that will not just go away. We will not just start loving each other, there are one or two precedents for this in the 20th Century. This situation has to be tackled head on and that will involve some nasty debates and home truths but we still need to do it, especially as we have an election next year.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:02 am

s@int wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
s@int wrote:
babu wrote:I don't really want to get into this debate..

but I wanted to mention this video I came across. I work in the Halal industry and Islamic Services including Banking.

I came across this u-tube video, its produced by Christians and it is basically a call to halt the Islamicisation of the World. However, in my opinion it does the opposite. It supports the point of view it is inevitable. I have used elements of this video to convince many companies, MNCs and a few governments to start investing in the Halal industry.

Check it out:
You Tube Video

Its people like Dawson that are causing the problem Babu, you can't expect me to father the next generation all on my own.

Seriously there is definately a problem in the West over birth rates. A lot of my friends said years ago that they had decided not to have any children, and most of them haven't. I think a lot choose freedom, holidays and possessions rather than have a family.

Why should not having children be considered a problem though?

If we all started thinking that way Bob there soon wouldn't be anyone left to think that way! Look what happened to the dinosaurs once they started preferring new cars to having kids.

Can't say I'm that worried, mate. 6.7 billion people on the planet. 9 million projected by 2050. 10.8 billion by 2150...I think we'll still manage to keep the numbers ticking over even if a few of us prefer not to have kids of our own. :upside:

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:39 am

Kharhaz wrote:One thing I find amazing, with everyones point of view is how long each and every persons view isnt new. Take any opinion in this thread and this is not a new opinion, its been around for years. And always, at the centre of the problem, are people who can attempt to solve this problem, but they never do. Take this quote from George Orwells 1984 novell Regarding High Class, Middle Class and Low Class.

"The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim - for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives - is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal."

The arguments, differences and views in this thread are nothing new. Indeed the actions each of us take are also nothing new. It all remains the same. Each and every person has a view on how things are and it this that is keeping this world rolling along on the same cycle throughout each generation. The one simple fact that will continue is this, we will always have an inept government, there will always be a difference amongst people, their will always be different views but one thing that will be guaranteed to continue, amongst all members on here...there is absolutely sod all we can do to change it.

Just look into the past at the people who tried.

So what do you suggest we do if we're covering old ground with our opinions. Close and delete all threads relevant to the society we live in today and just talk 'Eurobasket'?

I personally think it is good to critique and analyse important issues such as this. We're never going to make an impact on our football team by sitting around and airing our views on here. So what is the difference here, I think most people on here realise this. However there is nothing wrong with the discussions these notions bring. Not until people are labelled 'racist' because one does not share ones view with something else.

I agree with statements like Bigmick and Redbeergoggles who's posts held plenty 'of substance' in my opinion. Yet as per usual old mate swerved RbG's statement with a wide birth (I cannot think why). Bigmick notes that British society has been tolerant with governmental laws and issues regarding such matters in this thread. I concur and that is testament to the Indigenous people of British society. Yet when 'boiling' point becomes apparent like it did in Harrow. All kinds of weird and wonderful accusations are banded about accussing Indigenous people of Britain of having unprincipled behaviour.

This, I conclude has absolutely no substance at all.

posted on behalf of a mate

by **redbeergoggles** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 9:51 am

LFC2007 wrote:Rather than going off on a general rant, if you could explain exactly why the comment(s) I've made are 'naive', what it is that leads you to believe that I am a 'bleeding heart liberal' (and if you could provide me with your definition of that term, that'd be great too) who 'hides behind curtains' and who desires to 'fall into a regime of conformity', then it would help me in my response.

Your first paragraph in particular is bizarre as it seems to bear no relation to anything I've said.

The sentence you make about other people's views meriting respect seems to be implying that I haven't given consideration to the views of others (who, specifically?), which - if that is what you are suggesting - is nonsense. The remainder is a continuation of a general theme that tries to pigeon hole my views.

I'm more than happy to discuss this topic with you, mate, but if you go off on a very general rant you leave me little to go on by way of reply. I can't add anything else unless you substantiate your propositions.

I will for the sake of the continued debate oblige your requests , I deem you to be of a naive nature ,because although your posts are in context quite eloquent ,and well written ,you seem to be missing the one inextricable truth and that is threads like this one are penned for one sole reason ,and that is simply to declare which side of the proverbial political fence you preside on ,and your feelings however passionate and controversial they may be .

I feel passion is something your posts seem to be sadly lacking ,thus the inference to the Bleeding heart Liberal tag which in the course of this post I will endeavour to explain , I might be slightly incorrect in my assumptions as I haven't the sheer willpower it would undoubtedly take to rake through your earlier posts ,but I don't recollect you giving the slightest hint to were your allegiances lie ,and I hope this explains my opening statement, where I quite openly declared my beliefs .

I expect your waiting for me to explain my assumption that you are naive ,well the last part of your post infers nothing but ,that being the following

("You're a Christian. If a group of 16 men turned up at your place of worship campaigning for an end to your religion in Britain, I suspect you'd have something to say ") so lets say for the sake of argument the respective roles were reversed and it was Christians trying to openly promote Christianity in a predominantly Islamic country ,would the same amount of tolerance be afforded ?

It seems your missing the importance of forums fella,they simply exist for opposing voices to come together and in your words rant ,about their beliefs or indeed eulogize over their team and their aspirations for the future ,not a less than competent regurgitation of the propaganda, the media regularly forces the more malleable to ingest in copious quantities ,quite simply forums are not about being clever they are about wearing your heart on your sleeve and saying what comes from the heart .

I think in summation I will include a definition of the phrase bleeding heart Liberal "A person who is considered excessively sympathetic toward those who claim to be underprivileged or exploited." ,feel free to pick your way through my post fella ,Im sure you have the time ,I on the other hand do not ,so as to ensure I do not become embroiled in this futile debate ,I will desist in posting in this particular thread as I like my prey to have a pulse ...........

Ps If you don't wish to be pigeon holed stop believing the Lies the ubiquitous masses are being readily fed on .

by **Sabre** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:01 am

I'm a Catholic and what is becoming more and more disconcerting is the amount of Churches that are closing all across Britain, through an apparent lack of funds being made available ,yet the more affluent Muslim community are building Mosques in disproportionate numbers ,so to make a statement like the one you just proffered is naive to say the least ,(How many Catholic churches do you see being built in Islamic countries ?).

In my region, there are 3 whatever you call to the candidates to be a priest. Only 3. THere's lack of devotion. And that's not Muslim's fault. It's our fault.

Don't get me wrong, if a muslim comes to my neighbourhood inciting to hatred, I'll be the first that will be in the group that will throw the problem causer to the docks of San Sebastian. But quite simply I disagree that the lack of devotion in the Catholic church can be explained with the muslim devotion. I'm all for being ruthless with the people who break the law (and inciting to violence breaks it), but the Catholic Church doesn't need to find the reasons of his situation elsewhere.

Quite simply if the devotion was up and running, more catholic churches would be built? But young people don't care about religion, the old people die, so it's no wonder no new churches are built.

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:10 am

redbeergoggles wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:Rather than going off on a general rant, if you could explain exactly why the comment(s) I've made are 'naive', what it is that leads you to believe that I am a 'bleeding heart liberal' (and if you could provide me with your definition of that term, that'd be great too) who 'hides behind curtains' and who desires to 'fall into a regime of conformity', then it would help me in my response.

Your first paragraph in particular is bizarre as it seems to bear no relation to anything I've said.

The sentence you make about other people's views meriting respect seems to be implying that I haven't given consideration to the views of others (who, specifically?), which - if that is what you are suggesting - is nonsense. The remainder is a continuation of a general theme that tries to pigeon hole my views.

I'm more than happy to discuss this topic with you, mate, but if you go off on a very general rant you leave me little to go on by way of reply. I can't add anything else unless you substantiate your propositions.

I will for the sake of the continued debate oblige your requests , I deem you to be of a naive nature ,because although your posts are in context quite eloquent ,and well written ,you seem to be missing the one inextricable truth and that is threads like this one are penned for one sole reason ,and that is simply to declare which side of the proverbial political fence you preside on ,and your feelings however passionate and controversial they may be .

I feel passion is something your posts seem to be sadly lacking ,thus the inference to the Bleeding heart Liberal tag which in the course of this post I will endeavour to explain , I might be slightly incorrect in my assumptions as I haven't the sheer willpower it would undoubtedly take to rake through your earlier posts ,but I don't recollect you giving the slightest hint to were your allegiances lie ,and I hope this explains my opening statement, where I quite openly declared my beliefs .

I expect your waiting for me to explain my assumption that you are naive ,well the last part of your post infers nothing but ,that being the following

("You're a Christian. If a group of 16 men turned up at your place of worship campaigning for an end to your religion in Britain, I suspect you'd have something to say ") so lets say for the sake of argument the respective roles were reversed and it was Christians trying to openly promote Christianity in a predominantly Islamic country ,would the same amount of tolerance be afforded ?

It seems your missing the importance of forums fella,they simply exist for opposing voices to come together and in your words rant ,about their beliefs or indeed eulogize over their team and their aspirations for the future ,not a less than competent regurgitation of the propaganda, the media regularly forces the more malleable to ingest in copious quantities ,quite simply forums are not about being clever they are about wearing your heart on your sleeve and saying what comes from the heart .

I think in summation I will include a definition of the phrase bleeding heart Liberal "A person who is considered excessively sympathetic toward those who claim to be underprivileged or exploited." ,feel free to pick your way through my post fella ,Im sure you have the time ,I on the other hand do not ,so as to ensure I do not become embroiled in this futile debate ,I will desist in posting in this particular thread as I like my prey to have a pulse ...........

Ps If you don't wish to be pigeon holed stop believing the Lies the ubiquitous masses are being readily fed on .

Miiiaaaaooowwwwww....

by **GYBS** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:32 am

Saint why doesnt this mate just post himself instead of through you

?

by **bigmick** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:39 am

GYBS wrote:Saint why doesnt this mate just post himself instead of through you ?

Have a guess GYBS.

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