Liverpool FC Forum

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:30 pm

I think we can afford some rotation but we shouldn’t go crazy. They are the Hungarian champions so I’m sure they will be decent technically and have one or two danger men.

Reina

Degen Carragher Skrtel Aurelio

Gerrard Lucas

Kuyt Voronin Riera

Babel

Torres
Benayoun
Pacheco
Mascherano
Kyrgiakos
Johnson
Cavalieri

by **woof woof !** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:19 am

Bl'oody hell, some of us are sounding like AC Milan at half time, there's confindence and there's arrogance, wouldn't start celebrating just yet.

I agree with the sentiments of John Craig and Cool Hand although personally I wouldn't drop Torres, stick him on from the start, bring him off if (hopefully) we go a couple of goals up .

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:21 am

Yes, I agree Woof and John. I'd rest 2 or 3 players if you will, but let's take the competition seriously.

Plus we learned in a long thread that making TOO MANY changhes is a bad idea.

by **bunglemark2** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:26 am

bigmick wrote:As such I'd give Leon his first appearance of the season in goal, I'd bring in Lee Peltier, the bloke who got shot up the erse, Egg Nog, Zorba and all the other blokes who are kicking around the training pitch who everyone goes "who is that bloke again?" when he parks his Land Rover at Melwood.

Mate, wtf are you talking about here ? I can't decipher your message - are you on the wacky backy ?

by **Greavesie** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:58 am

i dont think we should play a weakened side. this is one of the easier games so Id be sure to get the 3 points rather than risk it. The other games would prove a lot trickier if we didnt win this one

by **Owzat** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:54 pm

s@int wrote:I would go with a weak team as this is the one competition where we can afford a mistake or bad result so its worth the gamble. Johnson and Torres both looked tired at the weekend so I would definately rest them both.

On the flip side, if we don't win early enough it could cost us later in the group stages. Can we not go out and score a couple of goals then take Torres off? I might be tempted to rest Gerrard, play Mascherano/Lucas/Spearing in midfield and rest Johnson at RB.

Leaving qualification for later could be the worst way to approach this, I'd rather try and qualify with games to spare so we can rest players then.

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:18 pm

is goal difference important ? play a full squad and humiliate them. builds confidence, maintaining the squad keeps the balance right and 10 goals might just come in useful.

simples

by **woof woof !** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:27 pm

Owzat wrote:
s@int wrote:I would go with a weak team as this is the one competition where we can afford a mistake or bad result so its worth the gamble. Johnson and Torres both looked tired at the weekend so I would definately rest them both.

On the flip side, if we don't win early enough it could cost us later in the group stages. Can we not go out and score a couple of goals then take Torres off? I might be tempted to rest Gerrard, play Mascherano/Lucas/Spearing in midfield and rest Johnson at RB.

Leaving qualification for later could be the worst way to approach this, I'd rather try and qualify with games to spare so we can rest players then.

I agree, lets not forget the scare we got from a supposedly easy game against a little Belgian club last season.

Don't know anything about this Hungarian side but we should deffo show them some respect.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:56 pm

With the game at the weekend which we really need to win, I think we ought to keep the side as it is in order to build some fluency and cohesion. Otherwise we'll end up rotating ourselves into a spin and might end up out of the title race by Christmas :laugh:

by **bigmick** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:26 pm

LFC2007 wrote:With the game at the weekend which we really need to win, I think we ought to keep the side as it is in order to build some fluency and cohesion. Otherwise we'll end up rotating ourselves into a spin and might end up out of the title race by Christmas

Very true mate :nod

That said, Torres in particular needs a rest and I'd certainly leave him out. Infact lets face it, if we had a single other viable option it would have been sensible to leave Torres out against Burnley as well.

They do say many a true word is said in jest though, and your "out of the title race by Christmas" may even prove to be overly optimistic. If we were to lose at Chelsea in a couple of weeks time (assuming we don't gain any points on them before then) I'd say that at nine points behind them we are as good as out of it by the end of September.

The challenge at the moment is very much to stay in the title race, and we are very much clinging on by our fingernails IMHO. Thanks God Man Utd lost at Burnley or it would already be a mountain we had to climb as opposed to a large hill. Hopefully we can win at West Ham at the weekend, and fingers crossed the Mancs draw with Citeh and Spurs turn Chelsea over.

Given the size of our task though, the Champions League game against the Hungarian mob must take a back seat in terms of importance.

by **LFC2007** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:29 pm

Fair enough mate, I just think you're underestimating the importance of getting some fluency and cohesion going in the side.

by **JC_81** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:36 pm

bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:With the game at the weekend which we really need to win, I think we ought to keep the side as it is in order to build some fluency and cohesion. Otherwise we'll end up rotating ourselves into a spin and might end up out of the title race by Christmas

Very true mate That said, Torres in particular needs a rest and I'd certainly leave him out. Infact lets face it, if we had a single other viable option it would have been sensible to leave Torres out against Burnley as well.

They do say many a true word is said in jest though, and your "out of the title race by Christmas" may even prove to be overly optimistic. If we were to lose at Chelsea in a couple of weeks time (assuming we don't gain any points on them before then) I'd say that at nine points behind them we are as good as out of it by the end of September.

The challenge at the moment is very much to stay in the title race, and we are very much clinging on by our fingernails IMHO. Thanks God Man Utd lost at Burnley or it would already be a mountain we had to climb as opposed to a large hill. Hopefully we can win at West Ham at the weekend, and fingers crossed the Mancs draw with Citeh and Spurs turn Chelsea over.

Given the size of our task though, the Champions League game against the Hungarian mob must take a back seat in terms of importance.

Find this a very odd post mate.

You've been pretty strong in your opinion that Benitez shouldn't rotate, especially early season when players can't possible be tired. You were also one of the most critical of Benitez the season before last when he 'rested' Torres in games against Birmingham and someone else and we dropped valuable points. So it seems odd that you should now say you would have rested him against Burnley (viable alternative option or not). Of course it's easy for you or any of us to say this in hindsight, because we won the game at a canter, but what if Benitez had rested Torres (and let's say we did have a half decent replacement) and we still drew?? Most likely there'd have been a string of posts on here condemning Benitez's 'styling'.

Sometimes Benitez can't win. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Sometimes I just think we need to take a step back from it all and realise that Rafa Benitez knows a sh.it lot more about football than any of us.

by **Sabre** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:46 pm

LFC2007 wrote:With the game at the weekend which we really need to win, I think we ought to keep the side as it is in order to build some fluency and cohesion. Otherwise we'll end up rotating ourselves into a spin and might end up out of the title race by Christmas

I laugh, because it sounds extremely familiar

by **ruskiy playmaker** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:48 am

john craig wrote:
bigmick wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:With the game at the weekend which we really need to win, I think we ought to keep the side as it is in order to build some fluency and cohesion. Otherwise we'll end up rotating ourselves into a spin and might end up out of the title race by Christmas

Very true mate That said, Torres in particular needs a rest and I'd certainly leave him out. Infact lets face it, if we had a single other viable option it would have been sensible to leave Torres out against Burnley as well.

They do say many a true word is said in jest though, and your "out of the title race by Christmas" may even prove to be overly optimistic. If we were to lose at Chelsea in a couple of weeks time (assuming we don't gain any points on them before then) I'd say that at nine points behind them we are as good as out of it by the end of September.

The challenge at the moment is very much to stay in the title race, and we are very much clinging on by our fingernails IMHO. Thanks God Man Utd lost at Burnley or it would already be a mountain we had to climb as opposed to a large hill. Hopefully we can win at West Ham at the weekend, and fingers crossed the Mancs draw with Citeh and Spurs turn Chelsea over.

Given the size of our task though, the Champions League game against the Hungarian mob must take a back seat in terms of importance.

Find this a very odd post mate.

You've been pretty strong in your opinion that Benitez shouldn't rotate, especially early season when players can't possible be tired. You were also one of the most critical of Benitez the season before last when he 'rested' Torres in games against Birmingham and someone else and we dropped valuable points. So it seems odd that you should now say you would have rested him against Burnley (viable alternative option or not). Of course it's easy for you or any of us to say this in hindsight, because we won the game at a canter, but what if Benitez had rested Torres (and let's say we did have a half decent replacement) and we still drew?? Most likely there'd have been a string of posts on here condemning Benitez's 'styling'.

Sometimes Benitez can't win. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Sometimes I just think we need to take a step back from it all and realise that Rafa Benitez knows a sh.it lot more about football than any of us.

excellent post john

by **bigmick** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:28 am

It seems I'm picking up some flack for apparent inconsistency, which is fair enough. I suppose having banged on about over rotation (correctly) for years it's only natural that the moment I advocate some "resting" I'm going to cop a bit.

Just to clarify though and argue my point, all circumstances are different to each other and despite accusations to the contrary, I've never ever said we ought to play the same team in every single game (that was what the blanket throwers used to say in order to try and dampen down discussion as I remember).

Lets have a little look at the situation, and while we're at it compare it with the Birmingham situation.

Firstly, as of now we only have one viable striker. Not two, three, or four, but one. Who's fault that is if anyones is for other threads, but I think pretty much everyone would agree that if Torres gets seriously injured we are absolutely fecked. This is a different situation to the previous periods when we were rotating ourselves into dizziness, and probably to some extent explains why we don't do it anymore. So if we accept that keeping Torres fit and fresh is absolutely vital, then surely we can accept that the point of view at least that we don't play him in games where it isn't entirely necessary is not off the wall.

Now to come back briefly to Johns point about the manager being damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, I don't think that's fair to be honest. I never said he SHOULD have rested Torres against Burnley, Torres had to play simply because we haven't got anybody else. My point is/was that in an ideal world, given the fact that our star striker looks dead on his feet, we would have been able to at least consider resting him, as it was we couldn't/can't.

Equally, while I think we have proven categorically over the previous few seasons that it really does make sense to get some momentum up before you start chopping and changing (particularly if it involves replacing first choice players with others who are fairly obviously inferior), two mitigating factors apply as of now. Firstly, we kind of have a bit of momentum in that we've just strung a couple of wins together. We're not exactly flying, but at least we have got something going after a pretty average start. Secondly, if ever there was a game in which you can concieveably afford to feck up it's the first Champions League match. We'll still qualify out of the group regardless of the result in this match, and as I said earlier the Premiership game on Saturday is much more important.

The last reason I can think of as of now that I'd certainly leave Torres outat the very least is this. He isn't going to stay fit all season, he isn't going to be able to play in every league match. At some point during the season, we are going to need to come up with an alternative. Hopefully it won't be for long otherwise we'll be very quickly also rans, but for a few matches at least we are going to need to find a solution. Doesn't it make sense in a game which we can afford to lose, to have a look at some alternative? My alternative would be to play Babel up top, with Benayoun off him. I'd play this against the Hungarian team, and I'd tell Torres to have a few days off.

Just to say it again, our situation in the league is extremely serious. Lose at West Ham and Chelsea and we are absolutely gone for all money, THAT should be our focus, not the game tonight.

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