Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:29 pm

s@int wrote:Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

Didnt we lose our first 4 games last time we won the league? Having said that I dont feel that inspired now but I bet neither did anyone then either.

by **Kharhaz** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:30 pm

After the match, I sat there trying to find excuses. The officials gave us next to nothing, Gerrard didnt play well, but after reading on the official LFC site rafas response (we have to improve) I realised I would be wasting my time. We went through this last season, the season before and looks a dead cert for this one as well. We create a lot of chances but we have to many "one of them games" where the shots will go everywhere but the back of the net. Too many times have the opponents goalkeeper played a blinder against us. Not because he is that good, we just seem to hit the ball straight at him everytime. We really need to improve the movement in the final third in games like these because we are just clueless when things are not going to plan.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:32 pm

bavlondon wrote:
s@int wrote:Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

Didnt we lose our first 4 games last time we won the league? Having said that I dont feel that inspired now but I bet neither did anyone then either.

No mate we won our first game of the season that year.

by **aCe'** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:43 pm

alright ill start with the positives:

- Johnson.. had my doubts about his price tag... guy is worth it though... going forward, he offers whats needed... at the back, hes yet to be seriously tested and i feel for any shortcomings in that department, hell more than compensate for them with his attacking ability in the league... main worry about him is the CL knockout stages but thats probably the least of our concerns for now..

- Torres, absolutely awful first touch this season... probably still not ready and fully fitbut he still managed to bag a couple of goals... striker who scores even when he isnt playing well is always a good thing..

- Insua, looks good going forward... the few games he played seemed to give him a world of confidence... was bombing forward and looked good connecting with the attacking players when given the chance...

- ManUtd dropping 3 points... Chelsea playing a formation that i believe will soon backfire on them once other manager figure out a way to stop it... ManCity same as Chelsea..

Negatives:

- midfield pairing... we desperately need Aquilani to get back, and not just that, we actually need him to hit the ground running once fit... For all the backing up and support Lucas will get, he just doesnt cut it at this stage... tidy as he may ever be, he'll never make an impact in a top side like he should... Not to focus on individual and getting back to the main issue, the process of taking the ball out from the back to the front players so far in 3 games has been embarrassing .. Today, we had Carragher and Mascherano doing all the work getting the ball out from our half to the opposition danger areas... Until Gerrard was pulled back to the middle, we had noone to look for in the middle of the park to provide the attacking players with any sort of decent balls... Mascherano tries to do it at times but seriously....

- Gerrard, has been poor so far... not to try and take the blame out of the guy or to find him excuses or any of that, but i think hes the one to have suffered the most from the selling of Alonso... He just hasnt been able to receive the ball that little bit higher up behind the midfielders and in front of the defenders facing the goal where most of his good attacking work came from last season... No doubt thats also affected torres' game quite a bit, but Gerrard to me needs to step it up a notch or two... regardless of where hes played...

- Zonal Marking... huge discussion i know... wouldnt want to get it started here either... but just have to mention.. our players dont seem capable of understanding how it works at times... Not the first time this has happened... not the first time this season either... player makes the run, our players are unable to deal with the threat, and it cost us... the problem isnt with the system, personally i think it works fine if done the right way... just think our players need to work on that a little more... for now though, id like to see players covering each post...

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:49 pm

s@int wrote:Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

Man U lost to Villa on the opening day of the 95-96 season and went on to win the league.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:51 pm

s@int wrote:Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

1993

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 pm

Utd didnt pick up many last season in their opening games but done ok in the end. It will be tougher this year for them too so we have to keep the faith.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:57 pm

aCe' wrote:- Gerrard, has been poor so far... not to try and take the blame out of the guy or to find him excuses or any of that, but i think hes the one to have suffered the most from the selling of Alonso... He just hasnt been able to receive the ball that little bit higher up behind the midfielders and in front of the defenders facing the goal where most of his good attacking work came from last season... No doubt thats also affected torres' game quite a bit, but Gerrard to me needs to step it up a notch or two... regardless of where hes played...

He was one of best performers against Stoke and he tried and tried against Spurs, it's just tonight really that he's been poor.

On the topic, we really need stability of play in the midfield. Gerrard and Riera would, I feel, go a long way to sorting that out.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:57 pm

aCe' wrote:alright ill start with the positives:

- Johnson.. had my doubts about his price tag... guy is worth it though... going forward, he offers whats needed... at the back, hes yet to be seriously tested and i feel for any shortcomings in that department, hell more than compensate for them with his attacking ability in the league... main worry about him is the CL knockout stages but thats probably the least of our concerns for now..

- Torres, absolutely awful first touch this season... probably still not ready and fully fitbut he still managed to bag a couple of goals... striker who scores even when he isnt playing well is always a good thing..

- Insua, looks good going forward... the few games he played seemed to give him a world of confidence... was bombing forward and looked good connecting with the attacking players when given the chance...

- ManUtd dropping 3 points... Chelsea playing a formation that i believe will soon backfire on them once other manager figure out a way to stop it... ManCity same as Chelsea..

Negatives:

- midfield pairing... we desperately need Aquilani to get back, and not just that, we actually need him to hit the ground running once fit... For all the backing up and support Lucas will get, he just doesnt cut it at this stage... tidy as he may ever be, he'll never make an impact in a top side like he should... Not to focus on individual and getting back to the main issue, the process of taking the ball out from the back to the front players so far in 3 games has been embarrassing .. Today, we had Carragher and Mascherano doing all the work getting the ball out from our half to the opposition danger areas... Until Gerrard was pulled back to the middle, we had noone to look for in the middle of the park to provide the attacking players with any sort of decent balls... Mascherano tries to do it at times but seriously....

- Gerrard, has been poor so far... not to try and take the blame out of the guy or to find him excuses or any of that, but i think hes the one to have suffered the most from the selling of Alonso... He just hasnt been able to receive the ball that little bit higher up behind the midfielders and in front of the defenders facing the goal where most of his good attacking work came from last season... No doubt thats also affected torres' game quite a bit, but Gerrard to me needs to step it up a notch or two... regardless of where hes played...

- Zonal Marking... huge discussion i know... wouldnt want to get it started here either... but just have to mention.. our players dont seem capable of understanding how it works at times... Not the first time this has happened... not the first time this season either... player makes the run, our players are unable to deal with the threat, and it cost us... the problem isnt with the system, personally i think it works fine if done the right way... just think our players need to work on that a little more... for now though, id like to see players covering each post...

Really good post and I agree with practically every word of it (I know!

). Central midfield is the huge concern for me as well at the moment. Lucas and Masch simply do not offer enough in their linking play to trouble organized teams. Both Spurs and Villa now have sorted out how to play us without breaking a sweat: sit off Masch and Lucas (and Carra, when he steps forward) while constricting the passing lanes to Gerrard, Torres and, tonight, Johnson. If Masch or Lucas manage to play a ball into feet, the receiver is closed down rapidly, from behind, before they can turn and pick a pass. What results is a lot of lateral passing that does not happen swiftly enough to pull the opponents out of their shape and open gaps to exploit. Alternatively, Masch will get a bit impatient and try and thread the needle with a pass or curl one into the top corner...neither his forte. We must get this sorted ASAP or we can forget about challenging.

by **KOPMATT** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:58 pm

banana wrote:
Sabre wrote:
On the left, assuming Riera is going to be sold/has fallen out with the manager/isn't doing well enough in training or whatever, that leaves a gap.

Hopefully it's not the case, but I see comments in the forum here in and there, is there some sort of sign that's the case?

As for the rest of the post I agree, we're a bit under pressure, but I tend to agree aswell Bad Bob what he says in the match thread about us improving and our rusty starts. The problem will be as he says not to lose sight of the leaders.

On the Johnson note, yes, step up over Arbie and quite evident, I normally don't say these things after two games (I still have to watch today's game).

Arbeloa was safe and solid. DId his job as a professional. Working hard in every game. Good passing, good defending. A nice guy. Team player. Treating others with dignity and respect.

Johnson is also a good player. Just lacking the consistency Arbeloa offered. A little bit of a hot head. More likely to do that costly mistake that Arbeloa didn't.

Anyway there is no reason to splash a net of 18 million minus 4 million = 14 millions on a right back whan that area was sorted out.

This happened because Liverpool were forced to buy british (CL rule) and because the owners fooled Rafa into believing that he could buy Johnson and Still have money left to strenghten other areas.

I liked Arbie also but i certainly think that after just 3 games Johnson has really impressed me and IMHO I think it was money well spent.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:59 pm

bavlondon wrote:Utd didnt pick up many last season in their opening games but done ok in the end. It will be tougher this year for them too so we have to keep the faith.

Problem is, they know how to spot their competitors a lead and still come from behind to win titles. We don't.

by **aCe'** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:02 am

biggest negative i should have mentioned:

our setup... with no Xabi, and apparently no Riera and Aquilani for the start of the season, im not sure why Rafa decided to stick to the same setup.. was obvious from preseason that there was something was seriously wrong with our controlling of games and our building from the back... If that wasnt enough im sure the Tottenham game must have raised a few more eyebrows... anyways, players and the manager alike will need to react better to changes in our personnel/style of play... given time, whatever it is that we're trying to play now might work to a certain extent, for now though, it isnt... Time isnt something we can afford if we have any hopes of remaining in a title race until things settle down a little...Personally, id expect some drastic changes in the setup in the next few games... Wouldnt be surprised or the least bit disappointing to see Kuyt playing upfront, whether (hed prove/ has proven) a success there remains to be seen i guess .. Benayoun is a very important player for us at this stage i feel, so is Riera... the only way we can fit all our best players in the side without looking too conservative and without having to put added pressure on Torres to provide all the goals is to switch to a 4-4-2 if Gerrard is pulled back to the middle... That way we can have Kuyt, Benny, Riera, Torres all in the side, with Gerrard playing deeper through the middle... not sure how it would turn out but definitely worth a try imo...

by **sgs** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:12 am

Most of the static play IMO is coming from poor movement in the last 3rd, and the lack of sharpness by Gerrard and Torres, esp the former...a point peeps never mention as all the focus is on Lucas.

What Rafa has done so far is not simply play Lucas as replacement for Alonso; he's effectively playing two CMs and pulling Yossi esp, and Kuyt centrally to provide the creative impetus starting from the 3rd zone, along with SG dropping into the hole; while using the wide backs to provide width.

The option of SG in CM is fraught with all the limitations that led to he's being played further upfield in the first case. His performance in that role in the 2HF proved it...

What Liverpool fans are doing is killing a young talent, Lucas, with OTT criticism and expectation, to the point where he IS everything wrong with the team atm. That is simply wrong and at this rate, I seriously doubt if he will survive...To see it unfold right before my very eyes makes it even worse! I seriously doubt, if this were Spearing, if he would be treated in this manner...

That said, rather have poor form in August than January as we did last season...

by **lfc-gaz** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:13 am

question, are liverpool good enough to win the league?? honestly like??

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:14 am

Dundalk wrote:
s@int wrote:Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

1993

Spot on mate, I can only presume the commentator meant LIVERPOOL rather than any team although I don't think he said that.

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