Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:46 pm

So you don't have to be Einstien to realise it hasn't exactly gone according to plan. But how bad has it actually been, where are we, are there any positives, what are the negatives etc? Here's my take:

Well the first thing to say is thank God for Burnley. Had the Mancs gone there and won, we'd now be six points behind them AND Chelsea instead of three and six behind respectively. Obviously it's not ideal, but we have had the hardest opening fixtures of last seasons top three, and we are just about still in it. I know some people will find it incredible that you can even possibly think of being out of it after only a few matches, but they are the same people who tell you pre-season games don't matter, a draw at Home to Hull is not too bad etc. Realistically, from where we are if we lose against Chelsea in a few weeks we've probably got if not a mountain to climb, certainly a very big hill. Our position is serious, but thankfully because of the Mancs slip up not quite terminal yet.

So, the positives? Well the list isn't that long unfortunately so lets make sure we don't miss any out. johnson has been absolutely stand out in all three games so far and has obviously improved the team. You can argue about the fee till the cows come home, but I think pretty much everyone would agree he's a step up on Arbie. Reina remains the best keeper in the league, infact on the evidence so far I think he's cemented his position. Insua has continued his developement and is decent. Torres still knows where the goal is, neither him nor Gerrard have got injured yet, Kuyt still runs around a lot.

The negatives? We haven't really got going as of yet, and I strongly suspect we haven't decided upon or discovered our best line up in the absence of Aquilani. The feeling persists as it did at the start of the season that although being tidy, Lucas isn't going to offer enough as a central midfielder alongside Masherano. Neither Torres nor Gerrard have really got motoring yet, we are conceding far too many goals from set pieces, and the absence of Alonso is having a huge impact on the flow and cohesion of the team. I don't think any of those points could sensibly be disputed based on the evidence we've seen so far.

So IMHO we are in serious trouble as of now, a couple more bad results over the next two or three weeks and it's all over as far as the league is concerned. We need to start winning matches consistently, and about now would be good. To do so we are going to have to move Gerrard into central midfield and play someone else in the hole. On the evidence of tonight, someone else other than Voronin or Babel might be an idea, and probably Benayoun is the man. On the left, assuming Riera is going to be sold/has fallen out with the manager/isn't doing well enough in training or whatever, that leaves a gap. I suppose in the short term it's Babel time, it may even time for da Doss if indeed there ever is such a thing.

That to me though is the way we have to go. We must give ourselves the best opportuntiy of actually getting into the race, and to do that Gerrard must play central midfield for now.

by **Sabre** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:49 pm

On the left, assuming Riera is going to be sold/has fallen out with the manager/isn't doing well enough in training or whatever, that leaves a gap.

Hopefully it's not the case, but I see comments in the forum here in and there, is there some sort of sign that's the case?

As for the rest of the post I agree, we're a bit under pressure, but I tend to agree aswell Bad Bob what he says in the match thread about us improving and our rusty starts. The problem will be as he says not to lose sight of the leaders.

On the Johnson note, yes, step up over Arbie and quite evident, I normally don't say these things after two games (I still have to watch today's game).

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:52 pm

Riera would be as big a loss as Xabi imo and as I said in the other thread if we didn't bring in a replacement with some quality we would be in for trouble this season. Im going to bed now as I am too depressed to carry on tonight but good points mick.

The reality of the situation is Rafa probably would have liked to sell the likes of Dossena, Babel, Lucas and Voronin but no one wants them so we are stuck with them. But it doesn't matter as Rafa probably wouldn't have gotten the money to spend anyway.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:53 pm

On Riera Sabes I know nothing and have neither heard nor read nothing. Even though we are talking Rafa here and even accepting you do occasionally get some strange decisions, I simply cannot get my head round for a second a decision to leave Riera out for the first three matches unless there is something behind it. He must be either injured or there are darker strings being pulled behind the scenes surely

Like pretty much everyone on here and like I say I'm certain the manager as well, Riera definately gets into our best team if fit and available. One of those "if" boxes must not be getting a tick right now.

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:57 pm

Still, you gotta wonder what the hell was going on with the lads tonight with a performance like that....Forget Dossena, Voronin ('cos he wasn't going to make an impact when he came on to a dysfunctional team like that tonight), Babel (ditto), and Lucas (who seemed to take about 10 steps backward tonight for all the 2 steps forward Rafa insists he took in preseason)....
The rest of the players in red tonight just looked clueless. I imagine Xabi is looking at that game tonight licking his lips and thinking "I would've ripped them apart...". OK, unfair comment - he's gone now, but nobody else looked like they had the footballing nous to string a series of passes to foot together tonight...

I really don't want to go to work tomorrow....I'm likely to deck someone as soon as they mention it...

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:58 pm

He cant be injured as Rafa would have mentioned it in some of the pre game conferences and he hasnt said a word like that so far. And he played just the other day for Spain, and scored. So I can only assume either he has had a falling out or he is being lined up for a move.

by **banana** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:00 pm

Sabre wrote:
On the left, assuming Riera is going to be sold/has fallen out with the manager/isn't doing well enough in training or whatever, that leaves a gap.

Hopefully it's not the case, but I see comments in the forum here in and there, is there some sort of sign that's the case?

As for the rest of the post I agree, we're a bit under pressure, but I tend to agree aswell Bad Bob what he says in the match thread about us improving and our rusty starts. The problem will be as he says not to lose sight of the leaders.

On the Johnson note, yes, step up over Arbie and quite evident, I normally don't say these things after two games (I still have to watch today's game).

Arbeloa was safe and solid. DId his job as a professional. Working hard in every game. Good passing, good defending. A nice guy. Team player. Treating others with dignity and respect.

Johnson is also a good player. Just lacking the consistency Arbeloa offered. A little bit of a hot head. More likely to do that costly mistake that Arbeloa didn't.

Anyway there is no reason to splash a net of 18 million minus 4 million = 14 millions on a right back whan that area was sorted out.

This happened because Liverpool were forced to buy british (CL rule) and because the owners fooled Rafa into believing that he could buy Johnson and Still have money left to strenghten other areas.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:02 pm

banana wrote:Johnson is also a good player. Just lacking the consistency Arbeloa offered. A little bit of a hot head. More likely to do that costly mistake that Arbeloa didn't.

I really liked Arbie mate but you aren't seriously saying there is any comparison between the two players are you

Come on lets try and keep this thread with serious comments only.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:03 pm

I would say that Gerrard hasn't looked fit in any of our games so far. Torres while scoring a couple has looked a shadow of himself so far and our defence which most of us thought was a little suspect has become the main area of concern.

Looking back on it now, I think we all over-reacted to the good win against Stoke and became overconfident that our problems were behind us...... ffs it was Stoke after all, and even if they did get two draws against us last season we should EXPECT to beat them.

The problems never went away, it was just an early goal and a poor Stoke side didn't expose them. We still don't look match fit, and we don't appear to be playing collectively as a team. Worrying .....

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:05 pm

Torres is tired and who can blame him. A summer of hardley any rest. And he has a world cup next summer.

by **Sabre** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:06 pm

Arbeloa was safe and solid. DId his job as a professional. Working hard in every game. Good passing, good defending. A nice guy. Team player. Treating others with dignity and respect.

All true, and a good professional. I can't ask much more to a 1 Million player. He was an ok-average player but very consistent in his game, and someone to rely on. He was a good option in the left when required too. I think I never said a bad word about him other than considering him just average-ok-goodish. But Johnson is an improvement, especially when we have the ball.

Defending? Arbeloa wasn't a great defender either, and in Real Madrid they'll discover that much of his solidness is thanks to the good defensive work Liverpool as a whole did. Let's see what happens when he's truly exposed and with no helps.

Anyhow, it wasn't my intention to say a bad word about Arbeloa.

by **Zidane** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:13 pm

I'm so shocked at Riera not having any playing time I wish someone knew what the deal has been with his situation. We can't afford to lose him, he's too important imo since there are no other LM's for us really. Yossi has his games but Yossi isn't your typical day in day out left or right sided midfielder. He's more of a game changer/special occassion type player. Benny cuts inside way too much it congest the middle of the field at times. Riera on the other hand gives us width, helps retain possession and allows us to build up attacks far more than anyone else available on the left atm.

There's no need to be doom and gloom though, this is going to be a weird season and although we're out to a horrible start we are far from out of the title race. Every top team is going to have their ups and downs this season I am pretty sure of that and a low point total will be winning the league imo. We made mistake after mistake this was typical us losing games we shouldn't have lost, or drawing games we should have won like last year. That said the last 40 minutes or so that I watched we played pretty well we were just unlucky and Villa played like :censored:

yet won somehow, that's football.

As for Johnson, money well spent. Gotta pay up for quality nowadays no matter what the position.

Anyway all that positive stuff aside there really isn't any clear cut favorite right now to win the league and that worries me.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:15 pm

Its almost 30 years since a team lost their opening fixture and went on to win the league, how many years is it since a team lost 2 out of their first 3 fixtures and won the league ?

by **sixbuster** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:16 pm

bavlondon wrote:He cant be injured as Rafa would have mentioned it in some of the pre game conferences and he hasnt said a word like that so far. And he played just the other day for Spain, and scored. So I can only assume either he has had a falling out or he is being lined up for a move.

Absolute madness if he is going to be sold. The whole thing stinks though, anyone have any info?

by **Scottbot** » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:25 pm

bigmick wrote:
banana wrote:Johnson is also a good player. Just lacking the consistency Arbeloa offered. A little bit of a hot head. More likely to do that costly mistake that Arbeloa didn't.

I really liked Arbie mate but you aren't seriously saying there is any comparison between the two players are you Come on lets try and keep this thread with serious comments only.

Visit previous threads on Sami Hyppia if you want to read some of Banana's less serious comments.

Johnson has been excellent so far and Arbies offensive limitations would have been well under truly under the spotlight in this current set-up minus the midfield fluency Xabi gave us.

I think he's right about the owners though, I think Rafa probably expected to be able to spend more having held out for such a good price for Xabi.

I think the vast majority would like to see Stevie back in the middle for the time being, we don't look like we can play through teams at the moment because we are playing two centre-mids who essentially crabs with the ball at their feet.

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