Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bammo** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:47 pm

You got it GYBS, it's Huddersfield. He was signed on a free because they couldn't get Kelly back on loan. The reason - he's in Rafa's 1st team plans. I would have thought he'd have come on on Sunday.

Even if we have no money, surely we can afford under £10m? Or even take players on loan and pay their wages. We lacked a creative force from midfield on Sunday and without our first choice team we look like we have few ideas. Our squad players seem to be decent workers rather than flair players.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:48 pm

s@int wrote:I have read somewhere that Rafa not only has to sell before he can buy, but he also has to provide any funds for increases in contracts out of those sales. As we have given new contracts to a lot of players.........Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt etc etc, the money had to come out of the sales of Alonso and co.

If we still have money in the pot, I think it should have been spent it before now, if we haven't ..... well we will just have to make do and mend.

So maybe its not a case of what we need as much as what we can afford.

And I suppose the next question is S@int, although this would confirm once and for all that the owners are a pair of c...s, would it then also be reasonable to question whether spending in particular 18 million quid on Johnson was wise?

I've repeatedly said I think he'll be an excellent aquisition, but whereas we obviously needed a top class central midfielder (which hopefully Aquilani is) did we really need a top class right back? Were there more pressing needs? Is it on the flip side an example of Rafa doing what many of us have urged him to do over the years, concentrate on the first team and feck cover?

Another question. Is it possible Rafa was told that if he sold Keane he'd get the cash to splash, and then having flogged him he was told, "ah, well, actually what we meant was you can have a new set of training tops" (I can't believe none of the staunchly pro-Rafa's have mentioned this possibility, it's far more plausible that fecking Parry :angry:

signing keane without Rafa knowing about it). If it is the case that Rafa was promised the dosh then didn't get it, does he now wish he'd have played his role in Keanegate slightly differently

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:49 pm

GYBS wrote:I dont think the squad is thin in size

I agree, we've got about 104 players or something. It's hard keeping a track of who we've got sometimes.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:56 pm

s@int wrote:I have read somewhere that Rafa not only has to sell before he can buy, but he also has to provide any funds for increases in contracts out of those sales. As we have given new contracts to a lot of players.........Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt etc etc, the money had to come out of the sales of Alonso and co.

If we still have money in the pot, I think it should have been spent it before now, if we haven't ..... well we will just have to make do and mend.

So maybe its not a case of what we need as much as what we can afford.

I think that Rafa's hands have certainly been tied financially this summer. Rafa, as we all know, is a meticulous planner with a fetish for micromanagement so I'm going to make a leap and assume that none of the gaping holes in the squad that the rest of us have noted have escaped his attention. Moreover, Rafa's been known to have a moan or two in the past about the need for more money for transfers, so it's unlikely that he's opted to sit on the wedge of cash generated from the recent sales and voluntarily bank it for a rainy day. Add to that the fact that he was clearly itching to get shut of Parry for ages and has been quite forthright in the past about wanting to get transfers done and dusted as early into the transfer window as possible to give maximum time for his preparations--both facts that suggest that if he had a wedge of cash to spend in hand, he would have spent it long before now. Add it all together and what do you get? The undeniable (IMHO) conclusion that the owners have put a lock on the transfer piggy bank. From there it follows that, unless they too watched the Spurs match and had a change of heart, we're very likely stuck with what we've got.

by **Liverpool442** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:57 pm

Why is the squad too thin there can only really be one answer, Rafa , and its getting a bit boring everybody trying to blame the owners who although not my favourites mainly due to the debt and stadium failure, have provided funds, lets not forget 20m+ Torres, 20m Keane, 8m Riera, 9m Babel, 20m Aquilani, 17m Johnson (Thats not small change)
Rafa has been in charge 5 years and had well over 150m in transfer funds, although I accept he has also recouped a good amount, but after all that he has his team, no excuses, the only players left from when he took over are Gerrard and Carra, both of which most teams would want. However the simple facts are there to see, we have an unbalanced squad lacking in depth and in some areas quality. Quite simply to many of Rafa's average buys have not worked out leaving us looking very thin. And his defensive nature is why despite everybody with any sense knowing we need better options up top to break teams down who defend deep at Anfield causing us to draw games, his first signing in the window was a defender and now he is looking for another.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:10 pm

bigmick wrote:
s@int wrote:I have read somewhere that Rafa not only has to sell before he can buy, but he also has to provide any funds for increases in contracts out of those sales. As we have given new contracts to a lot of players.........Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt etc etc, the money had to come out of the sales of Alonso and co.

If we still have money in the pot, I think it should have been spent it before now, if we haven't ..... well we will just have to make do and mend.

So maybe its not a case of what we need as much as what we can afford.

And I suppose the next question is S@int, although this would confirm once and for all that the owners are a pair of c...s, would it then also be reasonable to question whether spending in particular 18 million quid on Johnson was wise?

I've repeatedly said I think he'll be an excellent aquisition, but whereas we obviously needed a top class central midfielder (which hopefully Aquilani is) did we really need a top class right back? Were there more pressing needs? Is it on the flip side an example of Rafa doing what many of us have urged him to do over the years, concentrate on the first team and feck cover?

Another question. Is it possible Rafa was told that if he sold Keane he'd get the cash to splash, and then having flogged him he was told, "ah, well, actually what we meant was you can have a new set of training tops" (I can't believe none of the staunchly pro-Rafa's have mentioned this possibility, it's far more plausible that fecking Parry signing keane without Rafa knowing about it). If it is the case that Rafa was promised the dosh then didn't get it, does he now wish he'd have played his role in Keanegate slightly differently

If its true ...... IF. It might explain why he didn't sign Owen, why he fought so long (too long imho) to get top dollar for Alonso and wasn't interested in any p/x deals, and why he bought a player that was injured, but who's club where prepared to take "easy payments".

Johnson while costing a lot allowed us to recover the money we were owed by Portsmouth so didn't bite as deeply into our ready cash as he could have.

I am sure he must realise that we are short both up front and with Hyypia departing at the back as well.

I don't think we actually had the money to buy Keane in the first place mate. From what I understand it was a case of so much down and the rest in easy payments. So when he was sold for £12million it was just money that was owed to the bank anyway.

I am sure he regrets buying Keane, but whether he regrets selling him ?

by **Bad Bob** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:16 pm

Couple of points about the Johnson signing. First off, in response to Liverpool442, the fullback is an important component of the attack in the game today and all of our rivals have quality attacking fullbacks adding to their play. Such players are part of the puzzle when it comes to unlocking stubborn defenses. Arbeloa didn't offer enough on that front (as many people emphasized during his time with us) so it made sense to bring in someone.

So, then you have to decide who to get and how much to pay (to get to Mick's point). 17 million is a steep price to pay, I agree, but we're buying an English international here, who will always command top dollar in the current market. Of course, you don't have to buy English--you can do what Rafa's done in the past and pay a few million for some 'Carlos Kickaball' to come over and give it a go. Yet, I can't help but notice that Josemi and Kromkamp are rarely held up as the paragons of astute transfer business. Arbeloa generally is but, of course, many still considered him not good enough.

In sum, we've worked ourselves into a bit of a paradox here. Given the reality that Rafa has limited transfer funds over and above the funds he generates from sales (take note Liverpool442) how would we like to see him use those funds? In the past, he was heavily criticized for bringing in lots of 'options and possibilities' players for limited outlay. 'Just spend the money on quality, FFS' we heard. Now, when he seems to have adopted that very policy, we hear a lot about 'how threadbare the squad is, FFS.' It all seems a little churlish to me.

by **andy_g** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:22 pm

i can't believe its gone on almost two pages and no one has made a joke with voronin and thin in the punch line. i was going to have a go but gave up.

as it goes, yes we are 1 or 2 quality players and 1 or 2 decent players light coming into this season. and i'm not too confident about it getting fixed.

by **Liverpool442** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:26 pm

Bad bob, In answer to the points you raised, I actually agree with you over Johnson and rate him as an excellent signing however I just believe that the front line was and still is an area where we are much shorter that in defense and as such should be the priority.
In respect of your other point about "funds raised over and above", well so what ! how he came to the amount he has to spend does not matter, he has spent considerable money, and had 5 years to build a squad, so I simply cannot see how we are short on the opening game of a season at this point in time, I mean our bench was laughable for a team that should be title contenders.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:26 pm

This is the article I read it in if anyone is interested :-

Times Online Times
Rafael Benitez frustrated by Liverpool cash constraintsTony Barrett
Rafael Benitez is usually bullish at the start of a new season, but the Liverpool manager was in a downbeat mood yesterday. At the start of a campaign in which Liverpool have been widely tipped to unseat Manchester United as champions, the Spaniard appeared preoccupied by the continuing financial problems at Anfield.

Liverpool’s record £30.2 million annual profit has not produced the kind of budget to allow Benitez to fill the remaining gaps in his squad. However, when asked whether he was happy with the level of financial backing afforded to him by the club’s owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, the manager would not take the bait, choosing to mask any unhappiness in a cloak of collectivity.

“I don’t know too many managers happy with the money that they have to spend,” Benitez said. “There are two or three clubs that have big, big money, but the rest of the managers I am sure will ask for more money. It is not impacting on my commitment.

“We are trying to progress. How do we progress? We have brought in players, and people might say ‘ah yes, but you’ve lost this player and this player’. But we’ll only really know when we start playing. If these new players are really good on the pitch then people will say we are going in the right direction. We were doing a lot of contract extensions because we wanted to keep the squad together.”

It is the last line that is the most telling because while Benitez was handed a budget in the region of £15 million plus whatever he recouped from sales to spend this summer, there was also an understanding that the cost of any significant contract extensions would also come from this pot. Benitez duly awarded new deals and accompanying pay rises to Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard, Dirk Kuyt, Yossi Benayoun and Daniel Agger, reducing his spending power in the transfer market.

Still, the dawn of a new season is a time for positivity and Benitez remains determined to put a brave face on things, arguing that the recruitment of Alberto Aquilani and Glen Johnson plus the return of Andriy Voronin from a loan spell at Hertha Berlin gives him the options he is looking for. “If you analyse the players we have already signed, they are players with quality,” said Benítez. “With Johnson we needed a little bit more quality at right back.

“Yes, we have lost something with Xabi Alonso but we couldn’t stop him from going. We have tried to manage that loss and have brought someone in, Aquilani, who we feel can help us win the games that we were drawing at home last season.

“Something has changed in football in the last year as there are other clubs spending big money. It’s difficult for us to control from our point of view, we have to work with our players and with the budget we had.”

by **tubby** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:26 pm

Im sure Rafa will sign a player or 2 more before the end of the window.

by **bigmick** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:32 pm

Bad Bob wrote:In sum, we've worked ourselves into a bit of a paradox here. Given the reality that Rafa has limited transfer funds over and above the funds he generates from sales (take note Liverpool442) how would we like to see him use those funds? In the past, he was heavily criticized for bringing in lots of 'options and possibilities' players for limited outlay. 'Just spend the money on quality, FFS' we heard. Now, when he seems to have adopted that very policy, we hear a lot about 'how threadbare the squad is, FFS.' It all seems a little churlish to me.

Agreed Bob, and I did mention the contradiction earlier here : "Were there more pressing needs? Is it on the flip side an example of Rafa doing what many of us have urged him to do over the years, concentrate on the first team and feck cover?".

by **KOPMATT** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:35 pm

Let's hope so, eh?

by **Tim LFC** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:35 pm

I think Rafa focused a bit to much on La Liga. And i know La Liga is the most comparable to the PL but i would like him to look more into other Leagues like in Eastern Europe countries as there starting to produce some quality. And for affordable prices.

by **KOPMATT** » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:37 pm

we did buy Skyrtel from there mind you.

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