Debate on racism

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Postby ConnO'var » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.

:nod

One would have thought, that we, being herd creatures, would actually celebrate the fact that we are 99.9% alike genetically. It's sad to think that people tend to focus on the 0.1% difference.

As I said..... with the world shrinking as it is and the increasing occurrences of mixed marriages, we can start to understand the fact that our herd, is actually a lot bigger than we think.
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Postby dawson99 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:24 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.

:nod

One would have thought, that we, being herd creatures, would actually celebrate the fact that we are 99.9% alike genetically. It's sad to think that people tend to focus on the 0.1% difference.

As I said..... with the world shrinking as it is and the increasing occurrences of mixed marriages, we can embrace the fact that our herd, is actually a lot bigger than we think.

what a crock of sh!t...sorry,

we are not 99.9% the same, far far from it. due to the colour of our skin and the way society works we are brought up differently, we live differently, everything is different. to say otherwise is naieve.

Genetics when it comes to this has nothing to do with it... people of all colours won't say "but, inside we are all the same" you'd just get shot or stabbed if you said that.

This isn't some pg version of life, its unrated, its violent and ugly, and evil at times... thats just the way life is
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Postby Bad Bob » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:31 pm

dawson99 wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.

:nod

One would have thought, that we, being herd creatures, would actually celebrate the fact that we are 99.9% alike genetically. It's sad to think that people tend to focus on the 0.1% difference.

As I said..... with the world shrinking as it is and the increasing occurrences of mixed marriages, we can embrace the fact that our herd, is actually a lot bigger than we think.

what a crock of sh!t...sorry,

we are not 99.9% the same, far far from it. due to the colour of our skin and the way society works we are brought up differently, we live differently, everything is different. to say otherwise is naieve.

Genetics when it comes to this has nothing to do with it... people of all colours won't say "but, inside we are all the same" you'd just get shot or stabbed if you said that.

This isn't some pg version of life, its unrated, its violent and ugly, and evil at times... thats just the way life is

That's the whole point, Daws...race exists because we believe it exists and have created cultural justifications for perpetuating it as a marker of difference.

The point of talking about the 99.9% GENETIC similarity is not to dismiss that racial issues still matter in society but to emphasize that this is a cultural issue that can be addressed rather than a biological fact that has to be accepted as unchangeable.
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Postby dawson99 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:32 pm

well next time you're in Harlesden of some estate in south London, mention genetics, see what happens lol
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Postby Bad Bob » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:38 pm

dawson99 wrote:well next time you're in Harlesden of some estate in south London, mention genetics, see what happens lol

Absolutely!  I'll be sure to pass around lots of graphs and tables as well.  It'll go down a treat.  :D
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Postby Fowler_E7 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:44 pm

edit
Last edited by Fowler_E7 on Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ConnO'var » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:46 pm

dawson99 wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.

:nod

One would have thought, that we, being herd creatures, would actually celebrate the fact that we are 99.9% alike genetically. It's sad to think that people tend to focus on the 0.1% difference.

As I said..... with the world shrinking as it is and the increasing occurrences of mixed marriages, we can embrace the fact that our herd, is actually a lot bigger than we think.

what a crock of sh!t...sorry,

we are not 99.9% the same, far far from it. due to the colour of our skin and the way society works we are brought up differently, we live differently, everything is different. to say otherwise is naieve.

Genetics when it comes to this has nothing to do with it... people of all colours won't say "but, inside we are all the same" you'd just get shot or stabbed if you said that.

This isn't some pg version of life, its unrated, its violent and ugly, and evil at times... thats just the way life is

I think you misunderstood the point mate.....

Was speaking of genetics and not about how we were brought up.

Just meant that behaviour and perceptions are products of nurture and not some pre-ordained physiological difference as a result of us being of different races.

To overcome that thought process will require a superhuman effort and will be damned near impossible.... I agree that would require some sort of mythical Utopia. But it doesn't hurt to hope.
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:08 pm

when you think about it the fact that all of us are currently alive on the same planet in the unviverse at the same point in time in the history of the Universe, already makes us nearly 100% similar to everything that is alive on the planet. The fact that our genetic makeup is also nearly identical just adds even more fuel to the fire.  If you were to make a list of ALLLLL of the similarities that exist across all races and cultures of human beings it would FAR OUTWEIGH the list of differences that could be pinned as "unique" to one group of people.
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:17 pm

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Postby baldricks_cunning_plan » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:45 pm

lakes10 wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:On racism though I'll try and give my view.

For the 18 years I've been alive, I've lived in Toxteth. Now for anybody unaware of what Toxteth is, it's an inner city area of Liverpool and has the highest Black and I think Muslim community in Liverpool. So I've grown up around a lot of black people which have influenced my life massively because of the area I've grown up I've learnt to appriciate reggae music and Carribean food a lot more especially from the elder folk who are actually from the West Indian islands. And while I'm very proud to be white, I am also very proud to admit the influence I've had by black people.

Now when I went to secondy school (St Margaret's on Aigburth Rd) the number of whites to black was about 50 white to each black lad. Now a few lads I went to Windsor St School with applied to join Margy's and were just as intellegent as me so I find it baffling as to why the ratio was so high. But the racism aimed at the few black lads was shocking. I always argued back with anybody who used the racist terms because of my roots in Toxteth and the number of black mates I had and still have got. This isolated me a lot from some of the whites.

As for white lads "trying" to be black well most of the time that will just be down to the group of mates they have. As I've said because of the black mates I had, I fell in love with reggae and Ska music something I probably wouldn't have done if I'd been in an middle class white area. So if white lads are listening to hip hop, rap, RnB or whatever the latest name for it is, then where's the problem? By seeing a problem with it, you are being racist yourself. (you being nobody in particular, just generally) The same with the language thing. Scousers grow up saying la, Geordies grow up saying pet because it's the environment they are in, if a person is surrounded by people saying "ting" then they'll pick it up. I don't class it as trying to be black because there'll be many black people who don't say "ting" so it's not trying to be black, it's trying to fit in with the environment they're living in.

The gang thing, again I can safely say by growing up in Toxteth I've seen more than one gang or "firm" as some wanted to be called because they didn't like the term gang. Apparently a gang is a coward's version of a firm. In other words they've been watching Green Street and took the word firm from there. But this is not a race thing, as both whites and blacks have gangs which includes both races.

The real problem lies with people trying to glorify it. Films such as "This Is England" or "Made In England" do not help the racist issue. In "This Is England" (which I acutally like, mainly because of the soundtrack) the lead character, Shaun, and is portraying a 10 year old (I think that's the age) yet is being asked to go into the corner shop saying words like "paki" (appologies for the use of the word, but it's to make the point.) Then you have the skinhead leader, Combo, using words such as "wog" or "nigger" and kicking the s**t out of Milky because he is black. While the film is trying to show the truth to the origional skinhead trend, it also glorifies the problems of it, which will brainwash kids that it's right just as much as the good parts of it will do.

There's no need to glorify these sort of things. It's like Green Street, The Firm, Footy Factory and any other football hooligan film, it glorifies things that don't need to be. Then there's the telly shows like Rising Damp and The Fresh Prince where so many of the jokes are based on the ignorance people have towards racism but again kids watching them may well be brainwashed and think it's alright to have that attiude. Again there's computer games like GTA San Andreas where every other word is "nigger" while shagging a tart and carrying a gun. Then there's the common theme that every new rap song must include "I'm f*****g hoes with my niggaz".

The media are to blame as much as anybody for the modern day racism because they want it to continue which is why any slight disagreement between a white and black person (or any other race) there's up roar in the press.

Then of course we have the political correctness nonsense. We can no longer have blackboards, they have to be chalkboards but it's alright to have whiteboards. We can't have ba ba black sheep but we can have mary had a little lamb, it's fleece was as white as snow. This again is racist in it's own way by trying to make out they're not being racist. Nobody with a brain cell saw a problem with a blackboard but then again politicians don't have brain cells and by trying to look like the do gooders they end up making the situation worse.

Continuing along similar lines. In America there is "Miss Black America" for black american women but for "Miss America" anybody can enter. The same with Black Awareness Week but no White Awareness. There's Black Colleges and Universities, there's Black History that is taught in schools. So from that I can understand why white people would feel annoyed. That's not equality, it's racist but because it racism on the part of black people nobody sees it as racism as apparently only white people can be racism.

It's the same with derogatry terms. A straight lad says the word "queer" or "puff" or "shirt lifter" or any other term of that sort and he's homophobic but when a gay lad says it, all is ok. It's still using the same derogatry term. And the same with sexism, women can be as sexist as they want but when a bloke does it he's the world's worst.

The truth is, only whites can be racist, only straight people can be homophobic and only men can be sexist. And yes this rant is from a white, straight lad. And one who f*****g proud to be. That's not to say I am racist, homophobic or sexist because I don't think I am, it's just the way I see this so called politically correct world.

what a great post and it was good to get your view.
but you last point is that only whites can be racist is wrong.

not sure if you have ever sdeem a black gang in fights with the chinese gangs or the black gangs in fights with the muslim gangs around Bradfgord, i had to work there  on and off for a year and it tended to change my view that it was just a black and white problem.

also i would point out that when i am picked on for being white when i going into places like east london and south london that is also racist.

What I meant about "whites can only be racist" is in the eye of society. Every race can be racist but when a black lad is racist to a white, it's not seen to be racist by society or the media.

But when a white lad does it, there is total up roar. I'm well aware other races are racist but the general consensus in this farce we call Britain is only white people can be racist and only non whites can be offended by racism.

That's not the truth as we know it, but it's the truth society wants us to believe.
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Postby GYBS » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:57 pm

spot on baldrick and was exxcatly what happened in luton with that incident i mentioned
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Postby Judge » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:34 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:edit

powerful statement, sums this thread up  :D
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Postby Ace Ventura » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:58 pm

Why do black people where baggy trousers ?

































........because there negros (knee grows)!
:D



Apologies to those easily offended, am just bored.
Last edited by Ace Ventura on Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ALLLRIGHTY THEN !!
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Postby andy_g » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:22 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.

:nod

One would have thought, that we, being herd creatures, would actually celebrate the fact that we are 99.9% alike genetically. It's sad to think that people tend to focus on the 0.1% difference.

As I said..... with the world shrinking as it is and the increasing occurrences of mixed marriages, we can start to understand the fact that our herd, is actually a lot bigger than we think.

i read an interesting article in 'new scientist' magazine some time back (top read in general if anyone's interested) which stated that racism, or all strains of xenophobia are precisely linked to our tribal past. the fear of the other and urge to extinguish the threat of the other were deeply rooted instincts which served to reinforce tribal bonds - bonds of similarity - and to engender the feeling of security with people of the same type.

i tried to find the article on their site but failed.

seeing as we have trouble shaking of so many other instincts and habits from earlier humans its hardly suprising that this one has stayed with us.
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:44 pm

maybe there is a genetic marker for it?  Could be a case of just turning it off

Maybe some kind of trigger in the brain that releases some kind of chemical or something. Maybe we will subscribe anti-racism drugs in the future  :D
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