Debate on racism

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Postby dawson99 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:55 am

white gang - racists
black gang - muggers
indian gang - religion
asian gang - drugs

thats how the media portrays it... when it should be... racist all round!!!
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Postby mistyred » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:11 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:I'll tell you exactly why white kids try to be black: The Government have made it illegal to be patriotic about England. It's perfectly acceptable to fly a Jamaican/Pakistani/Iranian flag out of your window, but the minute you reveal a St. George's Cross, you are treated like a rapist.

Foreigners are actively encouraged to laud their lifestyles. What other culture would purport lyrics such as these?:

"When the pimp's in the crib ma
Drop it like it's hot
Drop it like it's hot
Drop it like it's hot
When the pigs try to get at ya
Park it like it's hot
Park it like it's hot
Park it like it's hot
And if a nigga get a attitude
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
Pop it like it's hot
I got the rolly on my arm and I'm pouring Chandon
And I roll the best weed cause I got it going on

[Verse - Pharrell Williams]
Uh! I'm a nice dude, with some nice dreams
See these ice cubes, see these Ice Creams?
Eligible bachelor, million dollar boat
That's whiter than what's spilling down your throat
The Phantom, exterior like fish eggs
The interior like suicide wrist red
I can excercise you, this can be your Phys. Ed
Cheat on your man ma, that's how you get ahizzead
Killer wit the beat, I know killers in the street
Wit the steel that'll make you feel like Chinchilla in the heat
So don't try to run up on my ear talking all that raspy :censored:
Trying to ask me :censored:
When my niggaz fill ya vest they ain't gon pass me :censored:
You should think about it, take a second
Matter fact, you should take four B
And think before you :censored: wit lil skateboard P

[Chorus]

[Verse - Snoop Dogg]
I'm a gangsta, but y'all knew that
Da Big Bo$$ Dogg, yeah I had to do that
I keep a blue flag hanging out my backside
But only on the left side, yeah that's the Crip side
Ain't no other way to play the game the way I play
I cut so much you thought I was a DJ
[scratches] "two!" - "one!" - "yep, three!"
S-N double O-P, D-O double G
I can't fake it, just break it, and when I take it
See I specialize in making all the girls get naked
So bring your friends, all of y'all come inside
We got a world premiere right here, now get live!
So don't change the dizzle, turn it up a little
I got a living room full of fine dime brizzles
Waiting on the Pizzle, the Dizzle and the Shizzle
G's to the bizzack, now ladies here we gizzo

[Chorus]

[Verse - Snoop Dogg]
I'm a Bad Boy, wit a lotta ho's
Drive my own cars, and wear my own clothes
I hang out tough, I'm a real Bo$$
Big Snoop Dogg, yeah he's so sharp
On the TV screen and in the magazines
If you play me close, you're on a red beam
Oh you got a gun so you wanna pop back?
AK47 now nigga, stop that!
Cement shoes, now I'm on the move
Your family's crying, now you on the news
They can't find you, and now they miss you
Must I remind you I'm only here to twist you
Pistol whip you, dip you then flip you
Then dance to this :censored: music we crip to
Subscribe nigga, get yo issue
Baby come close, let me see how you get loose!"

One song, glamourising the following:

Prostitution, drugs, stealing cars, anti-Police attitudes, murder, infidelity, treating women like sh*t and "gangsters".

- Such intellectual stimuli from one of the World's most famous rap "stars".

In simple terms, acting like a complete c*nt is being held up as the way to live your life, and the simple-minded, easily-led majority are happy to follow whichever dickhead gets the most publicity.

The songs got a B Line.

You need a women to Drop it like it's hot.

Get some P'ussy man!!!!


Your way to grumpy  :laugh:
Last edited by mistyred on Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby GYBS » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:15 am

dawson99 wrote:white gang - racists
black gang - muggers
indian gang - religion
asian gang - drugs

thats how the media portrays it... when it should be... racist all round!!!

spot on mate but people are afraid to call blacks attacking white or chinese attacking indian etc racist for fear of reprecussions
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Postby Dundalk » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:15 am

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Postby Bad Bob » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:03 pm

JoeTerp wrote:i am pretty sure there is a hispanic-american week, not sure when it is though.

easy to make fun of PC stuff. But its really important in shaping the minds of youngsters.  Saw a thing on West Wing one time of a group that suggested showing maps that showed the south pole facing "up" and showing a different kind of map that was more realistic to the sizes of the continents (stuff at the poles is made to look bigger than it really is because to make something 3-d into 2-d the long and lat get stretched more.

Yes, Joe, the whole issue of maps flared up a couple of decades back.  The standard Mercator Projection exaggerates the size of landmasses as you move toward the poles, which makes Greenland look bigger than Africa.  For some, this was an implicit statement about European hegemony that perpetuated colonialism.  Some people suggested that an equal-area projection like the Gall-Peters Projection would be a better choice because it gave the tropical world its proper due.  Critics hit back saying that it looked like the continents were wet clothes hanging on a line and just didn't "look right."  The irony, of course, is that there is no right answer: all projections distort something significant about the earth (usually relative size or shape) in order to turn a 3-D sphere into a 2-D sheet of paper.  The now widely accepted projection, the Robinson Projection, is favoured by National Geographic and others because it is a nice compromise of shape and areal distortions.  Who would have thought map projections could be linked to race? (I love teaching my students about this stuff.)

As for the "upside down" map, it's often printed as the "Australian view of the world" and is designed to remind us that north at the top of the map is a cartographic convention that need not be followed in every case.  Still, there's a bit of a barb to this kind of thing.  I had a kiwi friend in college who would occasionally accuse people of being "hemispherist" because they would associate winter with the period of Dec-March for instance or send Christmas cards with snowmen on them instead of beach parties!  :laugh:
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Postby Sabre » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:42 pm

What? Spain is not in the middle of the world and isn't europe as big as africa?  :D

jokes aside at least that one was taught right, although I don't get the concept of "doesn't look right" and "look like hanging clothes", that's just a matter of being used to something and expecting a map have to look like something. I'd go for the most accurate one.
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:47 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:i am pretty sure there is a hispanic-american week, not sure when it is though.

easy to make fun of PC stuff. But its really important in shaping the minds of youngsters.  Saw a thing on West Wing one time of a group that suggested showing maps that showed the south pole facing "up" and showing a different kind of map that was more realistic to the sizes of the continents (stuff at the poles is made to look bigger than it really is because to make something 3-d into 2-d the long and lat get stretched more.

Yes, Joe, the whole issue of maps flared up a couple of decades back.  The standard Mercator Projection exaggerates the size of landmasses as you move toward the poles, which makes Greenland look bigger than Africa.  For some, this was an implicit statement about European hegemony that perpetuated colonialism.  Some people suggested that an equal-area projection like the Gall-Peters Projection would be a better choice because it gave the tropical world its proper due.  Critics hit back saying that it looked like the continents were wet clothes hanging on a line and just didn't "look right."  The irony, of course, is that there is no right answer: all projections distort something significant about the earth (usually relative size or shape) in order to turn a 3-D sphere into a 2-D sheet of paper.  The now widely accepted projection, the Robinson Projection, is favoured by National Geographic and others because it is a nice compromise of shape and areal distortions.  Who would have thought map projections could be linked to race? (I love teaching my students about this stuff.)

As for the "upside down" map, it's often printed as the "Australian view of the world" and is designed to remind us that north at the top of the map is a cartographic convention that need not be followed in every case.  Still, there's a bit of a barb to this kind of thing.  I had a kiwi friend in college who would occasionally accuse people of being "hemispherist" because they would associate winter with the period of Dec-March for instance or send Christmas cards with snowmen on them instead of beach parties!  :laugh:

maybe in the future, all classes will be in 3-d with special glasses, and kids can just look at a true picture of the world on a globe  :D
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Postby JoeTerp » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:48 pm

Sabre wrote:What? Spain is not in the middle of the world and isn't europe as big as africa?  :D

jokes aside at least that one was taught right, although I don't get the concept of "doesn't look right" and "look like hanging clothes", that's just a matter of being used to something and expecting a map have to look like something. I'd go for the most accurate one.

I think its something to do with "accurate" in different ways, so you have to choose which categories are more important to be accurate in.
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Postby Sabre » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:59 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Sabre wrote:What? Spain is not in the middle of the world and isn't europe as big as africa?  :D

jokes aside at least that one was taught right, although I don't get the concept of "doesn't look right" and "look like hanging clothes", that's just a matter of being used to something and expecting a map have to look like something. I'd go for the most accurate one.

I think its something to do with "accurate" in different ways, so you have to choose which categories are more important to be accurate in.

For starters, the geographic north pole and the magnetic one should be in the same place and updating. XX centuries and  Bob and their science-branch partners don't get that right  :no


:D
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Postby Judge » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:01 pm

i fear this thread will degrade just like the ''too many ethnics'' thread did a while back
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Postby red37 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:21 pm

Judge wrote:i fear this thread will degrade just like the ''too many ethnics'' thread did a while back

Not necessarily 'Mr Flat Cap' - its doing alright so far.  :)
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Postby tubby » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:43 pm

Dundalk wrote:
red37 wrote:Someone else who needs a slap - Tim Westwood....the bellend.

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Yeah boooooooooyyyyyy!!

Why does he need a slap?

I admit the way he tries to talk like a black guy is a bit wierd but he has done a lot in terms of bringing hip hop to the forefront of radio in the UK. The talking thing is just part of his image. It's not hurting anyone at the end of the day and he is making money so more power to him.
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Postby ConnO'var » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:49 pm

This is an interesting discussion and I for one, had feared that it was going to degrade into a slanging match but I must say I'm pleasantly surprised.

It's probably not as simplistic as what I'm about to put down but if you distill it down to the essence, I think this is probably valid.

Man, by nature and nurture is inherently racist. Being a creature that belongs to a herd or tribe, there really is no other choice. You either band together or fall prey to outside forces because, in addition to being a creature of a herd, man is also probably the apex hunter in the entire animal kingdom simply because we are capable of thought. Theory of evolution and all that.

Today, as information becomes more widespread and accessible, one would hope that we can rise above our base instincts and reach a level of understanding and tolerance but we have a long way to go yet. Every generation passes on their perceived grievances about another ethnic group and the role of nurture cannot be underestimated in the development of bigotry. Hopefully the intensity of said bigotry will dilute with every generation and our children's children would eventually wean themselves of this insidious disease.

By all means, be proud of your heritage and culture but let it not diffuse into one's entire being and manifest itself as a perception that one's own culture, practices etc is superior to all others. That's where the problem generally begins. This is NO race on earth that is free of past sins against others.... That is the nature of man and to deny it is to delude one's self.

Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.
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Postby mistyred » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:02 pm

Who cares what colour you are?...people are people and at the end of the day
you can talk and act as you please.

That is until the earth ends up like that film Equilibrium.
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Postby Bad Bob » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:12 pm

ConnO'var wrote:Let not cultural pride become cultural bigotry, for in my eyes, that is what racism really is.... cultural bigotry.

Spot on, Conn.  It's cultural bigotry because, genetically speaking, there's no such thing as races (subspecies of humanity) anyway.  We all share 99.9% of genes in common because we haven't been around long enough or lived in enough isolation to sub-divide into distinct races at a genetic level.  There used to be presumptions that superficial (phenotype) differences (skin colour, hair texture, nose shape etc.) indicated strong underlying (genotype) differences but science has rubbished these claims.  What should have also been rubbished in the process is the notion that different 'races' have different affinities for things like intelligence, sports, music, ethical behaviour etc but old prejudices die hard, such that you still see the old stereotypes trotted out: "Asians are better at math," "Blacks are better athletes" etc.

Ultimately, race still gets spoken of as a meaningful way of dividing humanity because people believe there are real racial differences that divide one group from another.  The differences, though, are not racial, they are cultural.  Why does that matter?  Well, for one, cultural differences are not biologically rooted and that means they can change.  Biologically-determinist notions of 'race' suggested we were all dealt our genetic hand and there was nothing that could be done about the differences between 'races' and, by extension, the conflicts that arose as a result.  If we shift our understanding and see them as cultural differences, we should also see that--with a lot of hard work--cultures can and do change.  There is nothing essential or primordial about culture.  It's not bred in the bone.  It's learned behaviour and that means that certain, less savoury dimensions of that learned behaviour can be unlearned.  As long as people are prepared to accept that culture is dynamic and evolving rather than some millstone of tradition that hangs around our necks, there's hope that common ground, mutual respect and genuine exchange can be encouraged across existing cultural divides (without it necessarily following that once-great cultures will be watered-down or destroyed in the process...cultures are far too supple for that).  It's not easy to bridge these divides, I know, but it's a necessary step in our interconnected world.


Incidentally, there's a great website devoted to explaining just why race is a social construct rather than a biological fact:
Race: The Power of an Illusion
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