Liverpool FC Forum

by **maguskwt** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:04 am

heimdall wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
heimdall wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
aCe' wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
aCe' wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:cisse got 5 goals in 16 games 4 in the league and 1 in europe so total of 5 in 25 games- the season afterwards he got 7 in 33 games in league , 2 in fa cup , 8 in 14 in europe , so 17 in 58 games . so 73 games he got 22 goals .

22 goals in 43 starts for Cisse.....36 of his appearances were as a sub,mainly because he was coming back after an injury.

so overall they are all on a par with each other and all down to which one brought to the team .

They are on a par? But its well known and accepted that Cisse wasn't good enough for us

In terms of goals they are on a par - as for cisse i would compare him with babel - great ability and pace and power but lack of football awareness - good enough for us ? as a starter week in week out ? not for me . as a back up - yes as he does score goals , but i dont think i would want him in the squad due to lack of work ethic and his attitude .

work ethic... hard work... gives 200%.. etc etc... means fck all if you dont have the skills... im not talking about Kuyt im just talking in general... some of the best players in the world today, playing for some clubs that win big things, dont have the work ethic and dont work hard according to many....

hard work is overrated, just ask Daws

that is so wrong... whether you have skills or not you need hard work to help you to get somewhere... there are so many talented young players out there. To make it into the professional leagues you need discipline and hard work as simple as that... did you think Gerrard didn't work hard? did you think Torres didn't work hard? Did you think Carragher didn't work hard? hard work gets you somewhere. Skills without hard work doesn't get you nowhere...

good stuff.. so Cisse, Ibrahimovic (sorry had to throw him in there)..etc all do work hard or else they wouldnt have played at the biggest stages like they did...

They worked hard to get to where they are now... but then they need to continue to work hard and have a good attitude... if gerrard didn't continue to work hard under houllier and rafa he wouldn't have become world class... so too carragher... there are different levels of working hard...

sigh... it is quite difficult to explain the subtleties to those who over generalize...

Yeah cause Ibrahimovitch's career is really on the slide now isn't it. It is clear that some players have a much better work ethic than others, that is exactly the same in the real world.

*looks left*
*looks right*

who said Ibrahimovic career's on the slide?

anyone?

Sorry dude it's what's called sarcasm.

I know it's sarcasm but what you said is what I said so I don't exactly get your point...

by **woof woof !** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:09 am

Can we knock these completey unnecessary "Russian Doll" multiquotes on the head.

by **roberto green** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:25 am

woof woof ! wrote:Can we knock these completey unnecessary "Russian Doll" multiquotes on the head.

Yeah they hurt my eyes too!!

by **Sabre** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:32 am

Mick wrote:We don't agree on how good Alonso was. I think he was very good, you think he was better than very good. We don't agree on how good Kuyt is. I think he's a very good right midfielder, you think he's better than a very good right midfielder.

If Alonso is very good, Kuyt is very good and Kuyt scores more goals than Alonso, we can sell Kuyt for 40 M and presto! our financial troubles solved

No I don't think you're saying Alonso is as good as Kuyt, I think this is a typical quote you can get after dragging a pointless discussion for too long. A quote that months later will be twisted by someone else "Mick said Kuyt is as good as Alonso!!", and you probably didn't mean that.

These things are pointless and are not based on disagreement about the player but disliking posters. It works the other way aswell, someone ends up saying exagerated stances about how Alonso was defended and it doesn't get the whole picture neither.

The source of this pointless discussions are in the season, when in a match thread a player like Kuyt is insulted. That's where people like Dawson and GYBS or Lando or even myself defend the player. Of course, if you get that defence too far, you might end up overrating the player (like GYBS does IMHO).

For me Kuyt is a good player, I don't think he runs like a beheaded chicken, and I do think his work is important. But sometimes I think we might have someone better with the ball that would give our attacking game another edge. He's not as important as Gerrard or Torres, but he has been important. Which doesn't mean he can't be replaced or he can't be improved by someone else. What I think Kuyt deserves is respect, he doesn't deserve words like useless or garbage which are the ones that can be read during a season (not by mick but by several members).

by **Sabre** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:33 am

roberto green wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:Can we knock these completey unnecessary "Russian Doll" multiquotes on the head.

Yeah they hurt my eyes too!!

same here.

by **kazza** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:32 pm

bigmick wrote:
kazza wrote:
GYBS wrote:mick read through the thread and you will see plenty of people slagging him off and changing the angle of attack once he proves one bit wrong . Yes words like sh.t cr.ap inept useless twa.t pathetic embarresment , excuse of a football etc etc have been used by people on here to describe kuyt .

Don't forget ugly

In all seriousness two years ago when Kuyte's father died and he had a poorer season he got slagged off constantly (some football and some personal) even though he never stopped giving it his all by supposed supporters. Some clever poster even suggested we sell him for 5 million (a big loss) without hesitation, the same poster that seemed shocked when we sold Keane (at a lesser loss).

I like these long threads because you see just how full of sh1t some people are.

dear oh dear.

There are plenty of idiots here that said that, I was actually talking about someone else (unless of course you said that, then you as well). Sorry

We never lost 7 million on the Keane deal, more like 2m.

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:58 pm

heimdall wrote:
redbeergoggles wrote:
baldricks_cunning_plan wrote:People have to realise that you can't have 11 Steven Gerrard's in the side.

Kuyt was fantastic last year despite being a limited footballer. He's the easy target for fans because if Torres misses a sitter it's much easier to blame the ball from Kuyt than lay blame on our number 9. It seems some players can't be criticised, so that means it all falls to those like Dirk.

Without him we'd be much worse off. So he's not a Ronaldo or Messi but how many are? He's proven on numerous occasions he's not gonna work as a centre forward in England but he's proven on just as many, if not more, occasions that he more than pays his worth down the right wing.

I don't view Kuyt as a limited footballer fella ,without him we would have been seriously floundering ,his goals and assists simply cannot be overstated

Oh I think they can be overstated, I think this thread has proved that some people massively overstate them, "as important to the team as Torres and Gerrard".

There are 11 players on a football field wearing a Liverpool shirt and every single one of them are as important as the next.

Without their team mates Gerrard and Torres would be ineffective. Did Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres make Liverpool finish second last year? No, the entire squad of Liverpool Football Club took us to second place.

We are a team not individuals.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:34 pm

While it is always nice to think that every member of a team is equally valued etc etc. The truth is that a team is made up of eleven individual players, some of who are much more important to the team, WHICH IS WHY MANAGERS CALL THEM KEY PLAYERS. I sincerely doubt if opposing managers stay up late working out plans to stop him for example.

Kuyt is a good player, who had a very good season in a good team.He is not in my opinion a key player, just a good player.

He is very good at creating space for others, works tirelessly and has a good character.

On the down side he is slow, has a poor first touch and moves break down all too often when the ball reaches him. His finishing is more of the hit it hard and hope variety rather than the cool calculated placed finish, but if the ball hits the back of the net who cares?

Could we get better, imo yes, but until we do he is probably our best option on the right (unless we move Gerrard back out there).

Kuyt has done a good job since moving out wide, but lets not get carried away, he is not a "great player" he is a hard working grafter. Yes every team needs its share of grafters so lets be pleased we have one rather than trying to make out he is something that he is not.

by **dawson99** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:39 pm

not a key player?

FFS dude, what constitutes one if not the man who plays every game working his a$$ off doing everything he can for the team?
He is very key, more so than all others bar Stevie and Torres

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:41 pm

dawson99 wrote:not a key player?

FFS dude, what constitutes one if not the man who plays every game working his a$$ off doing everything he can for the team?
He is very key, more so than all others bar Stevie and Torres

That is your opinion, I have given mine.

by **baldricks_cunning_plan** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:42 pm

We are still a team, as soon as they step over the white line they become one team not eleven individuals.

Without the rest of the team no player would be good enough. Football is a team game and every single member of that team is needed and as important as the others. It's the way Liverpool Football Club was, is and will be.

by **heimdall** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:14 pm

dawson99 wrote:not a key player?

FFS dude, what constitutes one if not the man who plays every game working his a$$ off doing everything he can for the team?
He is very key, more so than all others bar Stevie and Torres

A key player is the kind of player that makes a huge difference whether they play or not and who isn't easily replaced. Now whether you play Bennayoun or Kuyt on the right is not going to make a significant difference on the team performance but if you replace Torres with Voronin/Wash or replace Stevie G with Lucas/Spearing then that will have a very big impact.

by **redbeergoggles** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:28 pm

I think the only attribute Kuyt is lacking is he is less photogenic ,other than that superficial reason I cant fathom why this forum fails to see his invaluable worth to the team ,players like Kuyt are priceless because he transforms the passengers in the team ie Riera ,Babel and co ,Ok maybe to a lesser extent in respect to Riera when he can be actually bothered, I think the term is "When it suits " ,anyway back on topic maybe certain fans will never see these laudable traits in Kuyts game, I for one couldn't care less its their loss (a ted will always be a ted even in an Armani suit

)

by **heimdall** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:36 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:I think the only attribute Kuyt is lacking is he is less photogenic ,other than that superficial reason I cant fathom why this forum fails to see his invaluable worth to the team ,players like Kuyt are priceless because he transforms the passengers in the team ie Riera ,Babel and co ,Ok maybe to a lesser extent in respect to Riera when he can be actually bothered, I think the term is "When it suits " ,anyway back on topic maybe certain fans will never see these laudable traits in Kuyts game, I for one couldn't care less its their loss (a ted will always be a ted even in an Armani suit )

Is Kuyt playing today? I hope he hurries up in transforming the team around him to play well so that we can beat AM.

by **kazza** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 3:51 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:I think the only attribute Kuyt is lacking is he is less photogenic ,other than that superficial reason I cant fathom why this forum fails to see his invaluable worth to the team ,players like Kuyt are priceless because he transforms the passengers in the team ie Riera ,Babel and co ,Ok maybe to a lesser extent in respect to Riera when he can be actually bothered, I think the term is "When it suits " ,anyway back on topic maybe certain fans will never see these laudable traits in Kuyts game, I for one couldn't care less its their loss (a ted will always be a ted even in an Armani suit )

Kuyte is a coach's player. He listens to intructions and and executes them, he is never injured, he always gives 100% and he runs non-stop for the full 90 minutes. You need the silky skills, the killer pass and the exceptional finish but you also need the grafter and that is what he does. I would not say his is as good or key as Gerrard or Torres because that is obvious, but he is certainly as important, especially if they are injured for half the season. I think this year will be his best year to date.

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