Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:35 pm

bavlondon wrote:I might be out of my depth here but wasnt Pippo Inzaghi a 'tap in' striker?

Yep, but again a great strike rate Bav. I suppose if you are knocking better than a goal in every 2 games it makes a difference mate.

by **aCe'** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:36 pm

bavlondon wrote:I might be out of my depth here but wasnt Pippo Inzaghi a 'tap in' striker?

Striker - Right winger... and please dont compare Kuyt's finishing to Inzaghi's and Nistelrooy's.... blasting the ball towards the net from 5 yards out hardly makes him a 'tap in' STRIKER !

by **aCe'** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:11 pm

was just watching the goals from the video stmike posted.. heres how the goals were scored:

1- edge of the 6yard box - blast at goal
1- header from edge of 6yard box
3- header from inside 6yard box
1- edge of 6yard box -tap in, empty net
1- inside 6yard box - empty net
2- inside 6yard box - tap in
1- blast from hard angle - edge of 6yard box
2- inside area blast towards goalkeepers body
1- inside area blast at goal -impossible angle
1- well taken goal from outside the area
1- brilliant side kick

make of it what you will....

by **GYBS** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:24 pm

yep they were all goals . Make no odds where they are scored from and you dont get any extra points for scoring from six yards out . Half the trick is getting ball on target as well as being in the right place at the right time . All points to scoring a decent amount of important goals for us .

by **aCe'** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:26 pm

GYBS wrote:yep they were all goals . Make no odds where they are scored from and you dont get any extra points for scoring from six yards out . Half the trick is getting ball on target as well as being in the right place at the right time . All points to scoring a decent amount of important goals for us .

insightful and enlightening as ever Gybs

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:27 pm

aCe' wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
aCe' wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Why not ace?

well... simple answer is because i dont think hes good enough to be scoring many goals consistently... he doesnt create chances for himself and i doubt the ball would fall 5yards out for him 15 times next season... simples

Didn't stop Van Nistlerooy, did it?

Van Nistelrooy is a striker though... scoring goals is what hes expected to do and he did that to great effect consistently... He had a very good first touch and could turn on the ball as good as anyone on his day... Kuyts a winger....

All credit to him for getting himself in the positions he did and getting the goals but surely we need that extra bit of creativity from him when playing the small sides where spaces for him to sneak into are nonexistant.. its not in his game, hes not a natural winger..etc etc we all know that... but it doesnt make the point made irrelevant or insignificant..

Towards the end of last season he did well.. before that he was average at best... 2 seasons ago playing striker for half the season and right winger for the other half he only managed 3 or so goals in the league ? whos to say he wont have a similar scoring record by the same token ?

Kuyt has scored 40 goals in 147 appearances - 1 in 3.7.

Name me another winger who betters that, save for the diving ponce Real broke the bank for.

by **bigmick** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:35 pm

He hasn't played 147 games on the wing surely has he?

by **aCe'** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:39 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
aCe' wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Why not ace?

well... simple answer is because i dont think hes good enough to be scoring many goals consistently... he doesnt create chances for himself and i doubt the ball would fall 5yards out for him 15 times next season... simples

Didn't stop Van Nistlerooy, did it?

Van Nistelrooy is a striker though... scoring goals is what hes expected to do and he did that to great effect consistently... He had a very good first touch and could turn on the ball as good as anyone on his day... Kuyts a winger....

All credit to him for getting himself in the positions he did and getting the goals but surely we need that extra bit of creativity from him when playing the small sides where spaces for him to sneak into are nonexistant.. its not in his game, hes not a natural winger..etc etc we all know that... but it doesnt make the point made irrelevant or insignificant..

Towards the end of last season he did well.. before that he was average at best... 2 seasons ago playing striker for half the season and right winger for the other half he only managed 3 or so goals in the league ? whos to say he wont have a similar scoring record by the same token ?

Kuyt has scored 40 goals in 147 appearances - 1 in 3.7.

Name me another winger who betters that, save for the diving ponce Real broke the bank for.

you're not replying to my post but anyways..

to respond to what you said, he actually only scored 34 goals for us from what i know... 2008/2009 -14, 2007/2008 -6. 2006/2007 -14.. so its closer 1 in 4.something games or whatever...

but anyways... whats your point ? that we cant do better ? that hes the best winger because of his scoring record ? I can name you 15 wingers id take ahead of him, whether they have better scoring records or not im not sure.. Remeber we had Cisse playing a similar role to Kuyts before he left ? he had a better scoring record than Kuyt did, didnt he ? why didnt people want him playing there anymore ?

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:48 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
aCe' wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
aCe' wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Why not ace?

well... simple answer is because i dont think hes good enough to be scoring many goals consistently... he doesnt create chances for himself and i doubt the ball would fall 5yards out for him 15 times next season... simples

Didn't stop Van Nistlerooy, did it?

Van Nistelrooy is a striker though... scoring goals is what hes expected to do and he did that to great effect consistently... He had a very good first touch and could turn on the ball as good as anyone on his day... Kuyts a winger....

All credit to him for getting himself in the positions he did and getting the goals but surely we need that extra bit of creativity from him when playing the small sides where spaces for him to sneak into are nonexistant.. its not in his game, hes not a natural winger..etc etc we all know that... but it doesnt make the point made irrelevant or insignificant..

Towards the end of last season he did well.. before that he was average at best... 2 seasons ago playing striker for half the season and right winger for the other half he only managed 3 or so goals in the league ? whos to say he wont have a similar scoring record by the same token ?

Kuyt has scored 40 goals in 147 appearances - 1 in 3.7.

Name me another winger who betters that, save for the diving ponce Real broke the bank for.

Many of those goals he scored playing up front Lando, its only really last season and maybe less than half the season before that he has been playing right mid.

Benayoun has played 52 games and scored 20 goals 1 in 2.5

by **Owzat** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:30 am

s@int wrote:Benayoun has played 52 games and scored 20 goals 1 in 2.5

52 games?

I have him down as having played 89 games for us so perhaps you are talking about starts.

And Yossi scored a hat-trick against Havant & Waterlooville, a hat-trick against Besiktas who we stuffed 8-0, so straight away he's bagged six of his 20 goals in games we were easily going to win, compared to Kuyt who tends to score crucial goals or set them up. And I seem to recall Yossi coming on and giving away a free-kick that cost us an equaliser, can't remember if that was against the bitters or not, so he can give away as many crucial free-kicks as he scores crucial goals.

Take off six in two from your stats and he has 14 in 52 which is one goal better than 1 in 4. Take off six in two from 89 apps and he has scored 14 in 87 apps which is around 1 in 6. wikipedia has him down as 20 in 87 apps for Liverpool. Yossi is good for coming on and/or scoring goals more than setting them up, but I'd rather have Kuyt on from the off as he works hard, sets up and scores goals and can even score goals after 90-120 mins of hard work. At the moment though I reckon Yossi is about our best option on the opposite side or in place of Gerrard off the striker. Maybe he does cut back in onto his right foot, so does Babel and what good did Riera being left footed do when his output of goals was not great - or assists?

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:58 pm

Yeah it was 52 starts. I don't think you can start taking goals off people just because they scored them in an easy game, as someone said a goal is a goal mate. The problem is that Benny has made a lot of sub appearances rather than playing the full 90mins as Kuyt tends to do. Maybe we should take all Kuyts goals off that he has scored with his knees?

I was just answering the question put by Lando, and Benayoun was the first name that came to mind.

by **Owzat** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:04 pm

s@int wrote:Yeah it was 52 starts. I don't think you can start taking goals off people just because they scored them in an easy game, as someone said a goal is a goal mate. The problem is that Benny has made a lot of sub appearances rather than playing the full 90mins as Kuyt tends to do. Maybe we should take all Kuyts goals off that he has scored with his knees?

I was just answering the question put by Lando, and Benayoun was the first name that came to mind.

You're saying we shouldn't take goals off, but then you're taking appearances off that weren't starts................... ok, one set of rules..........................

Yossi has the advantage of not bothering doing much defending (worthy of the name), comes on when defences are tired and is selfish. And it isn't just about goals, what about assists?

I'd take Kuyt over Yossi any day, maybe his goals per START are lower but neither is that prolific and with Kuyt you get hard work and assists. If it hadn't been for that late spurt of goals at the end of last season then we'd still be of the view Yossi was unpredictable, unreliable and perhaps best sold. Funny how a dozen games can change perspective.

And still stand by my thoughts on hat-tricks against Havant and Besiktas as soft. It's 1/3 of his tally, should certainly not be disregarded but certainly he has yet to show he can tuck them (HTs) away when we don't thump sides 5-2 and 8-0. Give me a 1-0 qualifier winner against Standard Liege any day of the week - off the knee, off the backside or off the referee

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:11 pm

The question wasn't which player you prefer, it wasn't who got more assists, it wasn't who the goals were scored against, it wasn't who is the best player, it wasn't who works harder or defends more or is more reliable or predictable.

by **heimdall** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:21 pm

s@int wrote:The question wasn't which player you prefer, it wasn't who got more assists, it wasn't who the goals were scored against, it wasn't who is the best player, it wasn't who works harder or defends more or is more reliable or predictable.

? so what is the question then

Anyway Kuyt is absolutely amazing at hitting the goalie in the chest, no one is better than him at that.

To be serious though Kuyt really is turning into a fairly decent winger, with clever little passes and good vision plus some very important goals. The one thing he lacks and I doubt he will ever learn is how to run with the ball, so for me I would start Benni every day of the week instead of Kuyt. It is fair to say though that Benni is very good to play against tired defences whilst Kuyt could be playing against a catatonic defence and they'd still have time to react to his runs.

by **Penguins** » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:16 pm

That high work rate and defensive work is very important vs Soke, Hull, etc etc at home isn't it?

Why have Benayoun in the team vs those teams when he offers more offensivly...?

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