Liverpool FC Forum

by **RedBlood** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:30 am

for me if we can have have 7 subs one or two of them should always be either galusci, nemeth, pachecco, spearing, kelly, darby, san jose or plesis that way we could throw one or two of them on if were comfortable just to give them experience and they should definately be played in the domestic cup and for instance if we have already qualified from our champions league group with games to spare

we have a good crop of youngsters here add to that young players like insua, lucas, babel, ngog and el zahr and we can have a great team for years to come

theres no reason why these players cant knock up 10/15 appearances each this season we play around 60+ games and if were gonna get the best out of them the reserves aint gonna cut it

wouldnt mind seeing hammil given a run out in pre-season hes been hyped up for long enough

by **RedBlood** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:06 am

dani pacheco http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBYacf1kJ8g

by **JoeTerp** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:21 am

7 subs: GK, CB, FB, CM, Winger, ST, ST.

cavaleiri, skrtel, aurelio, lucas, yossi, babel, n'gog/voronin

is what i expect the bench to normally look like

by **RedBlood** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:01 am

i would go with something like:

6 of: cavalieri, skrtel, auerillo, lucas, babel, benyoun, riera, ngog, ( one of: nemeth, pacheco, speaing, san jose, darby, kelly, plesis)

this means over the course of the season these young players could figure off the bench 10 times not to mention any starts in cup games and i feel we would benifit greatly

by **Ben Patrick** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:18 am

RedBlood wrote:i would go with something like:

6 of: cavalieri, skrtel, auerillo, lucas, babel, benyoun, riera, ngog, ( one of: nemeth, pacheco, speaing, san jose, darby, kelly, plesis)

this means over the course of the season these young players could figure off the bench 10 times not to mention any starts in cup games and i feel we would benifit greatly

Agree totally mate, thats one of the most annoying things about having a massive squad with fringe players that are not good enough.
You get the likes of Voronin and Ngog and if fit this season Degen taking places on the bench that one of the young players should have.

That way like you said in games where we are winning well we can give them 15 minutes or so at the end.

Makes alot of sense to me.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:18 pm

bigmick wrote:Well if they ain't already better than N'Gog, fogive me for not holding my breath with either of em. I know they're both young, but by this stage players such as Owen and Fowler were already the dogs bOll0cks.

In all fairness Mick, Owen and Fowler were obvious talents but our position as a football club had a massive factor in their development. Not having the same funds to spend on proven talent forced us to put faith in our youth system and individuals who showed promise.

Being outside the top 3/4 team's forces a club to develop talent instead of purchasing. Our success has allowed us to forsake developing talent by playing youngsters in the first team. I massively doubt if we had another Michael Owen in the youth system that he would be a regular feature for the senior team from the age of 17!

It's a shame because there are many youth players who I feel deserve a place in the first team over some of the bought in players -

Spearing - No one will convince me Lucas is further developed or more talented.

Nemeth/Pacheco - Ngog is not a bad player, he is yet to show his potential. But my problem is that Nemeth and Pacheco have been banging in goals for fun for the last 2 seasons. Why no call up until now?

Jack Hobbs/Paul Anderson - Heavily rated prior to purchasing them from lower league clubs. Hobbs was CB the year the youth team single handedly made the Carling Cup final. Yet both were sold to lower league clubs without a sniff of first team action.

How are we to develop the next stars of the clubs without some sort of faith made my the coaching team. Lets not forget Houllier made a point of promoting Gerrard to the first team at 17, after seeing potential in him - Rafa needs to made the same leaps of faith.

by **bunglemark2** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:48 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:How are we to develop the next stars of the clubs without some sort of faith made my the coaching team. Lets not forget Houllier made a point of promoting Gerrard to the first team at 17, after seeing potential in him - Rafa needs to made the same leaps of faith.

Good points there, mate....agree wholeheartedly....

by **Octsky** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:29 pm

woof woof ! wrote:For me it's a bit of a catch 22 with these lads. Both skilled and showing promise but not ready yet to step up to the next level. The catch is, the only way for them to further improve is to actually play at the next level. Perhaps a few cameos in some prem games and more extended appearances in the domestic cups would benefit both of them but neither of them strike me (particularly Pacheco) as being anywhere near to being considered significant additions to our senior squad.

agreed 100%.
u think fergie knows macheda is ready for the next stage?
i think that it is fat berbatov who got injured and fergie have no more experienced strikers, left with no choices he threw on machie, he scored the winning goal and everybody hailed fergie as a genius.
we need to play the youth or we will never know who is ready or not.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:47 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:In all fairness Mick, Owen and Fowler were obvious talents but our position as a football club had a massive factor in their development. Not having the same funds to spend on proven talent forced us to put faith in our youth system and individuals who showed promise.

Being outside the top 3/4 team's forces a club to develop talent instead of purchasing. Our success has allowed us to forsake developing talent by playing youngsters in the first team. I massively doubt if we had another Michael Owen in the youth system that he would be a regular feature for the senior team from the age of 17!

It's a shame because there are many youth players who I feel deserve a place in the first team over some of the bought in players -

Spearing - No one will convince me Lucas is further developed or more talented.

Nemeth/Pacheco - Ngog is not a bad player, he is yet to show his potential. But my problem is that Nemeth and Pacheco have been banging in goals for fun for the last 2 seasons. Why no call up until now?

Jack Hobbs/Paul Anderson - Heavily rated prior to purchasing them from lower league clubs. Hobbs was CB the year the youth team single handedly made the Carling Cup final. Yet both were sold to lower league clubs without a sniff of first team action.

How are we to develop the next stars of the clubs without some sort of faith made my the coaching team. Lets not forget Houllier made a point of promoting Gerrard to the first team at 17, after seeing potential in him - Rafa needs to made the same leaps of faith.

Do you think Owen, Gerrard and Fowler would be playing (+ have played) at the top level if they had not been given their first team opportunities with us?

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:55 am

LFC2007 wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:In all fairness Mick, Owen and Fowler were obvious talents but our position as a football club had a massive factor in their development. Not having the same funds to spend on proven talent forced us to put faith in our youth system and individuals who showed promise.

Being outside the top 3/4 team's forces a club to develop talent instead of purchasing. Our success has allowed us to forsake developing talent by playing youngsters in the first team. I massively doubt if we had another Michael Owen in the youth system that he would be a regular feature for the senior team from the age of 17!

It's a shame because there are many youth players who I feel deserve a place in the first team over some of the bought in players -

Spearing - No one will convince me Lucas is further developed or more talented.

Nemeth/Pacheco - Ngog is not a bad player, he is yet to show his potential. But my problem is that Nemeth and Pacheco have been banging in goals for fun for the last 2 seasons. Why no call up until now?

Jack Hobbs/Paul Anderson - Heavily rated prior to purchasing them from lower league clubs. Hobbs was CB the year the youth team single handedly made the Carling Cup final. Yet both were sold to lower league clubs without a sniff of first team action.

How are we to develop the next stars of the clubs without some sort of faith made my the coaching team. Lets not forget Houllier made a point of promoting Gerrard to the first team at 17, after seeing potential in him - Rafa needs to made the same leaps of faith.

Do you think Owen, Gerrard and Fowler would be playing (+ have played) at the top level if they had not been given their first team opportunities with us?

It depends. As I said before, having the funds to play the transfer market reduces the need and risk of playing youth team members. The top clubs tend to let other clubs develop the talent and then buy said talent.

My issue is two fold:

Firstly, out of the top four clubs we are by far the worse at introducing new homegrown players to the first team.

Secondly, if you watch the reserves you see the budding talent we have in the club. We need someone to take a chance on these kids. I would happily sacrifice the Carling Cup every year to see these ones develop, but this tactic seems to be few and far between.

Steven Warnock is a good example of how persevering and continuing to develop a player would of strengthened the team. Left back has been a bone of contention since Rafa (and before...) took over. I would of happily sacrificed the 6 odd million we got for Warnock and continued developing him. I would say now he is better than any left back we have now, and that is through Blackburn's development programme.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:14 am

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Steven Warnock is a good example of how persevering and continuing to develop a player would of strengthened the team. Left back has been a bone of contention since Rafa (and before...) took over. I would of happily sacrificed the 6 odd million we got for Warnock and continued developing him. I would say now he is better than any left back we have now, and that is through Blackburn's development programme.

Sorry mate but no way is Warnock a better player than Aurelio. Warnock is a good combative player and fans love him because he likes a tackle. The fact is though his positional play is lacking and he dives in too much. Far too rash in his decision making. I remember watching us play Blackburn last season and he was getting turned inside out every time - I remember thinking thank fu.ck we sold him. He's not good enough.

by **Ben Patrick** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:22 am

john craig wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Steven Warnock is a good example of how persevering and continuing to develop a player would of strengthened the team. Left back has been a bone of contention since Rafa (and before...) took over. I would of happily sacrificed the 6 odd million we got for Warnock and continued developing him. I would say now he is better than any left back we have now, and that is through Blackburn's development programme.

Sorry mate but no way is Warnock a better player than Aurelio. Warnock is a good combative player and fans love him because he likes a tackle. The fact is though his positional play is lacking and he dives in too much. Far too rash in his decision making. I remember watching us play Blackburn last season and he was getting turned inside out every time - I remember thinking thank fu.ck we sold him. He's not good enough.

True, Benayoun did that to him for the goal he scored.

But, he is better than Dossena and we sold Warnock for about 3.5 and bought the Doss for 7. Thats bad business.

by **JC_81** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:24 am

Ben Patrick wrote:
john craig wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:Steven Warnock is a good example of how persevering and continuing to develop a player would of strengthened the team. Left back has been a bone of contention since Rafa (and before...) took over. I would of happily sacrificed the 6 odd million we got for Warnock and continued developing him. I would say now he is better than any left back we have now, and that is through Blackburn's development programme.

Sorry mate but no way is Warnock a better player than Aurelio. Warnock is a good combative player and fans love him because he likes a tackle. The fact is though his positional play is lacking and he dives in too much. Far too rash in his decision making. I remember watching us play Blackburn last season and he was getting turned inside out every time - I remember thinking thank fu.ck we sold him. He's not good enough.

True, Benayoun did that to him for the goal he scored.

But, he is better than Dossena and we sold Warnock for about 3.5 and bought the Doss for 7. Thats bad business.

Doss was awful business for 7.

At the time 3.5 was reasonable for Warnock though. He's probably worth slightly more now.

by **bigmick** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:33 am

Agree with John on Warnock and Aurelio. Fabio is much the better player when he's not recovering from being duffed up by his little lad.

by **Paul C** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:41 am

Well IMO both are better than our £11.5m dutch 'striker/winger' Ryan Babel so why not give them both a go in the Carling Cup?

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