Liverpool FC Forum

by **Dalglish** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:14 pm

Michael Owen ................From "Hero" to "Zero" in 5 short seasons !

Many fans criticised MO when he left Liverpool alledging he ran down his contract resulting in LFC having to let him go on the cheap but thats only half the story. The club said after the Steve McManaman episode that they would never allow a player to get within 2 years of the end of his contract before acting (selling or extending). The club failed to do this and allowed the situation with Michael to meander along but lets not forget that it was Michael Owen's goals in 2004 that meant we qualified for the CL and eventually won it in extraordinary circumstances in 2005 ! Michael wasn't there to play his part in the final but he sure as hell contributed to us getting there !

For me it wasn't leaving us for Real Madrid which rankled but his decision to join Newcastle instead of returning to LFC after a year in Spain. This maybe tells you something about the pscyhe of the player preferring to go for the adulation of barcodes rather than the harsh realities of being judged by Scousers on his ability to play the beautiful game. Even toward the end of his time at Newcastle he was still having smoke blown up his A*** by desperate Geordies and there's a bit of Michael that enjoys that !

However signing for Man Spew takes it to a totally different level and thats irrespective of whether he's an incredible success or failure. I suppose MO has done whats best for MO and has it ever been any different ?

I suppose his move highlights the interpretations of the word "Loyalty" when it comes to Fans and Players. Supporters don't have the option to switch clubs, players do and loyalty for them works both ways when the club your playing for doesn't want you anymore. Newcastle certainly still wanted him as did LFC in 2004. Only once has he found himself jettisonned by his club (Madrid).

Am I disappointed in MO for choosing to join Man U ? Yes. Am I surprised .......No, and why should I be when the likes of MO can be found in abundance up and down the League. Only a handful of players in this modern era have managed to eek out a whole career at one club, Jamie Carragher and Stevie G spring to mind as does Matt Le Tissier, Giggs and Scholes but their the exception rather than the rule.....................

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:35 pm

GYBS wrote:
bigmick wrote:On balance I'd have taken Owen as I've said, whereas many wouldn't. I'm not 100% set on the whole idea (infact I was siding on the "nah give him a miss" side of the debate a few months back), but given our apparent financial state I'd have given him a shot on a free. We could as many have said, always have flogged him on if he flopped.

The bit I don't get though is why people are being so adamant about the whole thing. None of us really know for sure whether he will be a success with the Mancs or not, but we are about to find out so why not just give your opinion and wait? Why does it have to be polarised into a big row, simply because some people think he still has a goal or two in him, and some people don't?

As I've said a couple of times, if we don't get a good replacement/cover for Torres and Owen turns out to be a success with the Mancs, then inevitably people will say we should have signed him. They won't necessarily have to hate Rafa with a passion to come to that conclusion either, it will merely be logic. Similarly, if he bombs out either by being constantly injured or by playing consistently sh!t, the manager deserves credit for not taking what was a fairly obvious and easy option.

If he is subsequently a failure, I'll be more than happy to admit I was wrong in advocating re-signing him. Why aren't people prepared to wai and see though before throwing their tantrums?

They won't necessarily have to hate Rafa with a passion to come to that conclusion either, it will merely be logic.

You have mentioned this in this thread a number of times and in the other threads where the mods are getting a good moaning about ?!

when has anyone ever suggested that someone who wanted owen and thought he might be worth a shout hates Rafa ?! i really think your adding 2 and 2 and coming up with 5 mick here . People didnt want Owen cause they think he is off no use to us anymore - nothing to do with any pro or anti Rafa .

Most of the people think he is a judas little sh.it because he was taught and Liverpool made him the player he is now and he has gone to our biggest most hated rivals in the prem and he has stated that its a dream come true ?!

the old adding 2 and 2 and getting 5 is becoming a bit of a mantra. Keep chanting it and it might come true, you never know

.

Funnily enough I totally agree with you that if people either want or don't Owen, it is nothing to do with whether or not they support the manager. It's based entirely upon whether they think he could do a job for us or not I think.

Read the threads though if you want to know where the "hating the manager with a passion" comes from.

Anyway no argument on the Judas thing, he shouldn't have signed for them no matter what, although I don't blame him for being tempted. I hope he absolutely bombs out, but we'll see. It isn't that long to wait, and I'm quite happy to see how it all pans out. I'm by no means convinced that if we had signed him it would have been worth it as I've said, I just think it probably would have.

Lets just wait and see.

by **GYBS** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:47 pm

Do you know what is quite sad mick is - i bet you there is people out there who DO want owen to do well just to prove a point about Rafa and the fact they think he was wrong not signing him

P.s. No this isnt aimed at yourself

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:07 pm

GYBS wrote:Do you know what is quite sad mick is - i bet you there is people out there who DO want owen to do well just to prove a point about Rafa and the fact they think he was wrong not signing him

P.s. No this isnt aimed at yourself

I doubt that many would want Owen to do well with the mancs mate. Thats a bit like saying you think there are people who would rather we lost the league just to prove a point about Rafa.

We are all Liverpool supporters FIRST AND FOREMOST. The most ardent "Rafa hater" would be jumping just as high with joy as you if we won the title...... he would just attribute the victory more to the players rather than the manager.

Similarly with Owen, if he scores 20 goals for England next season and none for the mancs ..... that would be fine. I don't hate the player, I hate the mancs, and I doubt that any would want to see them successful at the cost of our own success.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:09 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Do you know what is quite sad mick is - i bet you there is people out there who DO want owen to do well just to prove a point about Rafa and the fact they think he was wrong not signing him

P.s. No this isnt aimed at yourself

I doubt that many would want Owen to do well with the mancs mate. Thats a bit like saying you think there are people who would rather we lost the league just to prove a point about Rafa.

We are all Liverpool supporters FIRST AND FOREMOST. The most ardent "Rafa hater" would be jumping just as high with joy as you if we won the title...... he would just attribute the victory more to the players rather than the manager.

Similarly with Owen, if he scores 20 goals for England next season and none for the mancs ..... that would be fine. I don't hate the player, I hate the mancs, and I doubt that any would want to see them successful at the cost of our own success.

Apart from Ace, of course.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:13 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Do you know what is quite sad mick is - i bet you there is people out there who DO want owen to do well just to prove a point about Rafa and the fact they think he was wrong not signing him

P.s. No this isnt aimed at yourself

I doubt that many would want Owen to do well with the mancs mate. Thats a bit like saying you think there are people who would rather we lost the league just to prove a point about Rafa.

We are all Liverpool supporters FIRST AND FOREMOST. The most ardent "Rafa hater" would be jumping just as high with joy as you if we won the title...... he would just attribute the victory more to the players rather than the manager.

Similarly with Owen, if he scores 20 goals for England next season and none for the mancs ..... that would be fine. I don't hate the player, I hate the mancs, and I doubt that any would want to see them successful at the cost of our own success.

Apart from Ace, of course.

I don't think Ace has said that he wants the mancs to win the title at our expense has he ?

I havent read whatever Ace is supposed to have said, so I can't really comment much, but I doubt ANY LIVERPOOL fan would want that.

I also think its time we stopped using the term "Rafa hater" , I doubt if any Liverpool supporter hates Rafa! Maybe we should use the term "Rafa raters" and " non rafa raters"

by **GYBS** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:29 pm

Its like people wanting Kuyt to play rubbish saint just so they can come on here and say i told you so - people would rather be proved right so they can say "i told you so" as opposed to wanting kuyt to do well as that would mean putting their hands up and saying "i was wrong"

ps just using kuyt as an example as i expect their is a lot more .

I bet you there is people thinking to themselves they want liverpool to fail so they can say "i was right" . Football fans are fickle mate .

P.s. Ace said he wished Owen well at Man Utd and rediscovered his form and scored goals so he can be back at the standing he used to be .

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:31 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
s@int wrote:
Dundalk wrote:Listen I don't hope he breaks his legs or anything like that buri don't think what he has done can be forgiven and he lost the respect of every Liverpool fan the day he pulled on a united shirt

I agree Dundalk, but there are still two sides to every story, and I think we missed a chance by ALLOWING him to sign for the mancs. We had first option and we turned him down time after time.

As I have said before, I hope he fails miserably at the mancs. Not because I hate Owen but because I hate the mancs.

If rafa doesn't rate him saint , should he have just signed him so the mancs couldn't . It's like saying well rafa should have signed carrick or nani or hargreaves or berbatov so the mancs couldn't .

All i will say is that owen knows exactly what he was doing by signing for the mancs . So he should expect the reaction he's going to get . If you make your bed and all that.

That's fair enough Igor, but should Owen have to spend the rest of his career making his decisions based on what a club that he last played for 5 years ago, that doesn't want him, and certain fans that have never liked him (Lando), rather than on what is best for his career and family? Should he choose to go to a club where there is no chance of winning trophies, where he will be in a constant battle against relegation just to keep some fans happy?

FFS mate, I don't like him going to the mancs BECAUSE I liked him as a player, but I can't blame him. I do question why WE didn't sign him though.

If you were out of work, would you refuse to work for a bus company just because the people at the railways wouldn't like it, even though they didn't want you back?

Ask yourself WHY I've never liked him.

Because he's a self-centred tw*t.

I have and decided its was because you are a cluless idiot.

Or a better judge of character than a dead-beat loser like you...

I picked you out quickly enough

Pedantic it may be, but I singled you out the moment you began posting.

Surely you recall your "first experience of Lando" which made you "consider cutting my (your) losses"?

To paraphrase, of course - I do not have your appetite for the research of threads.

Yeah and you were WRONG then as well wern't you, as was confirmed in Gerrards book that came out shortly after our little "discussion".

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:35 pm

GYBS wrote:Its like people wanting Kuyt to play rubbish saint just so they can come on here and say i told you so - people would rather be proved right so they can say "i told you so" as opposed to wanting kuyt to do well as that would mean putting their hands up and saying "i was wrong"

ps just using kuyt as an example as i expect their is a lot more .

I bet you there is people thinking to themselves they want liverpool to fail so they can say "i was right" . Football fans are fickle mate .

P.s. Ace said he wished Owen well at Man Utd and rediscovered his form and scored goals so he can be back at the standing he used to be .

It wouldn't bother me if Owen scored 30 goals next season as long as it doesn't bring them any success or costs us any points.or success. Obviously I would prefer him to fail miserably for the mancs as he shoots them to relegation ...... but you can't have everything

I doubt ANY supporter wants Kuyt or any other player to play badly. As we have seen, as soon as Kuyt's form improved people started appreciating him a little more.

by **GYBS** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:43 pm

Dont be surprised saint - i bet its not as unrealistic as you think

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:55 pm

GYBS wrote:Dont be surprised saint - i bet its not as unrealistic as you think

I think it more a case of some people travel so far down a particular path its difficult for them to turn back. I don't believe in reality that anyone would hope a Liverpool player played badly just to prove a point (that would never be proven anyway, or at least accepted by the "opposition")

Like anything else people will look for justification where they can find it.

If we fail miserably next season, the Rafa raters will blame it on money, the players or anything else that comes to mind.

If we win the league with points to spare and in great style, the rafa non raters will attribute the success to the team and to a failing manc challenge, etc etc.

In both cases all the fans would actually feel the same about success or failure though.

by **redbeergoggles** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:21 pm

Dalglish wrote:Michael Owen ................From "Hero" to "Zero" in 5 short seasons !

Many fans criticised MO when he left Liverpool alledging he ran down his contract resulting in LFC having to let him go on the cheap but thats only half the story. The club said after the Steve McManaman episode that they would never allow a player to get within 2 years of the end of his contract before acting (selling or extending). The club failed to do this and allowed the situation with Michael to meander along but lets not forget that it was Michael Owen's goals in 2004 that meant we qualified for the CL and eventually won it in extraordinary circumstances in 2005 ! Michael wasn't there to play his part in the final but he sure as hell contributed to us getting there !

For me it wasn't leaving us for Real Madrid which rankled but his decision to join Newcastle instead of returning to LFC after a year in Spain. This maybe tells you something about the pscyhe of the player preferring to go for the adulation of barcodes rather than the harsh realities of being judged by Scousers on his ability to play the beautiful game. Even toward the end of his time at Newcastle he was still having smoke blown up his A*** by desperate Geordies and there's a bit of Michael that enjoys that !

However signing for Man Spew takes it to a totally different level and thats irrespective of whether he's an incredible success or failure. I suppose MO has done whats best for MO and has it ever been any different ?

I suppose his move highlights the interpretations of the word "Loyalty" when it comes to Fans and Players. Supporters don't have the option to switch clubs, players do and loyalty for them works both ways when the club your playing for doesn't want you anymore. Newcastle certainly still wanted him as did LFC in 2004. Only once has he found himself jettisonned by his club (Madrid).

Am I disappointed in MO for choosing to join Man U ? Yes. Am I surprised .......No, and why should I be when the likes of MO can be found in abundance up and down the League. Only a handful of players in this modern era have managed to eek out a whole career at one club, Jamie Carragher and Stevie G spring to mind as does Matt Le Tissier, Giggs and Scholes but their the exception rather than the rule.....................

Nice to see you posting again fella .....

by **Dundalk** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:24 pm

Its never going to look right is it? :no

by **aCe'** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:43 pm

but just a few short of making them league champions...
We missed out on him, if he does the job for ManUtd then we only have ourselves to blame...

as for wanting him to do well... dont think it has anything to do with Liverpool ... i said i hope he does well because i think hes a good player and was a waste of talent when he was at Newcastle (despite scoring 30 goals in 65 starts) and at Madrid's bench (where he scored 16 goals mostly as sub)....
Hope he scores goals.. not enough for them to win the league but enough for him to get atleast some of his lost reputation back... hes done well when he was at liverpool and for that he'll be remembered...

the way i see it.. hes a 29year old player... one who was supposed to be recognized as one of the best in the world if he hadnt made a few wrong career choices at the wrong time... the only player in english club history outside Ronaldo to have won the world footballer of the year award... one who somehow ended up in a relegated side out of contract and desperately seeking a club...
one big club came in and decided to take a gamble on him.. he decided to sign for them.... he basically had no other choice as far as im concerned... Hull isnt an option... theyr a terrible side and ill put my mortgage on them getting relegated unless they sign atleast 4 or 5 new players...
Manutd offer him a chance at making the worldcup squad.. a chance at playing CL football... a chance at winning silverware... more money ... one last go at the big stage before he retires... he'd be a fool to turn them down for Hull city....

Most of us, in his shoes, would have done the exact same thing... loyalty to Liverpool or not, at this stage in his career i doubt hed care more about what a section of the liverpool fanbase would think of him more than what actually would be best for him and his career...
do i blame him ? not at all... i wish HIM all the best and i hope this doesnt come back to bite us in the a$$...

[/quote]
this needs a little explaining i guess...

Owen is a player.. ManUtd is a club...

Goes without saying but i really would hope that Manutd lose every game they play in.. not gonna happen but its not going to stop me supprting every Bolton and Hull they go up against in the league...
My point about Owen was simple.. the guy has given the club so much i think its a shame some would come out and wish he'd break his leg and neck just because hes signed for manutd....
First thing that came to mind when i heard he signed for Manutd was "son of a b****"... but then again he did what any other rational person in his position would have done... its not 1940 and at this level these things are always going to happen...
Anywyas, good luck to the guy, i think he deserves a shot at the big stage despite all hes done... wish he would have joined someone else but its not like hes going to be the one to win them the league if they do... well i certainly hope not...

by **dawson99** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:55 pm

we didnt want him so what was he gonna do? pick the worst team so as not to offend?

but for what he did i cant wish him luck, hope he fails as its the enemy but would never wish him harm

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