Liverpool FC Forum

by **NANNY RED** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:20 pm

Mary is the new kit washer, an Moses is the water carrier, ,

I always knew Anfield was a religious place , well weve had God , now Jesus , alls we need is the holy ghost, an ive prayed there often enough,

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:25 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:where is players like kelly, spearing , darby from your list ?

I ignored any player that had a squad number mate.

why ignore them thou when they have been brought through the system and have been included in the first team now ? all three are english as well .

So I will include the rest :-

21.
Lucas Leiva Felix
22.
Emiliano Insua

24.
David Ngog
25.
Jay Spearing
27.
Philipp Degen
28.
Damien Plessis
29.
Krisztian Nemeth
30.
Charles Itandje
31.
Nabil El Zhar
32.
Stephen Darby
34.
Martin Kelly
35.
Ryan Flynn
36.
Steven Irwin
37.
Martin Skrtel
38.
Craig Lindfield
39.
Nathan Eccleston
41.
Martin Hansen
42.
Peter Gulacsi

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:26 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:
bigmick wrote:Ashley Cole, Tony Adams, Michael Thomas etc etc.

are you going to constantly ignore my correction then mick just like my list of english lads in academy

I'm merely answering your original question as I thought you perhaps couldn't remember those players. Over the last five years, well Arsenal have got a squad half full of them, Toure, Clichy, Fabregas, Flamini (now departed obviously), Nicholas Bendtner etc etc. Previously (before your correction) they had the likes of Nicolas Anelka and countless others.

Anyway taking those out of the equation as it's always best not to include Artsenal in these things as they distort the picture, the Mancs have produced the centre half Evans, the two Brazillian kids who play in defence, the Italian centre forward who won them the league last term, as well as blokes like Wellbeck and little feckers like that who were good enough to make Premiership appearances and win them the Carling Cup.

As for your list of English players at the academy, it is meaningless and unsurprisingly completely misses the point. Yes we numerically have a host of young English kids, but we don't have the best ones if Spearing is the best of the bunch, nor do we nurtue them properly because as we've shown with the signing of David N'Gog, we don't take the promotion of youth seriously.

Ultimately though, people such as yourself can dance between the raindrops all you liek trying to make silk purses out of bus drivers who were "on Liverpools books five years ago", but the simple fact of the matter is we aren't producing any players.

That is a fact, I'm not necessarily saying it's the managers fault, but it is a fact nontheless.

Dont take the promotion of youth seriously ??!? maybe they just arent good enough to get into the first team - they show talent at a young age and stand out at schoolboy age but when it they arrive at the club and against other people at the same level they just cant make the grade and cant outshine other players .

You make the idea of scouting so simple and easy - lets just go and pick the best kids - some of these scouts have been doing the job for well over 30 odd years and have a much better knowledge of any of us and scour the whole world trying to find the best there is . They find players pick players out who look good at a certain age and see if they develop . What else can you do ?

Also why is Ngog not showing we take youth seriously ? we buy a highly rated young lad for a million - give him a few games and he scores a few goals for us as well ?

by **bigmick** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:28 pm

The reason we are encountering such a robust defence of the system (despite the fact it isn't producing any players) is that the usual suspects think this is byt definition a dig at the manager. Such is life.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:28 pm

GYBS wrote:where as i would send my lad to liverpool to give him a great chance to succeed and learn from the best . he would have to do the hard work to get there .

The thought of you having children worries me much more than our youth team mate

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:29 pm

bigmick wrote:The reason we are encountering such a robust defence of the system (despite the fact it isn't producing any players) is that the usual suspects think this is byt definition a dig at the manager. Such is life.

?? Im sorry but when has the manager been brought into it ??

you have mentioned managers fault at the end of your post .

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:29 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:where as i would send my lad to liverpool to give him a great chance to succeed and learn from the best . he would have to do the hard work to get there .

The thought of you having children worries me much more than our youth team mate

by **bigmick** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:32 pm

GYBS wrote:some of these scouts have been doing the job for well over 30 odd years and have a much better knowledge of any of us and scour the whole world trying to find the best there is .

And who would have thought it? While they were off scouring the World, from dustbowls in Northern African outposts, to snow covered Alpine backwaters in the depths of Norway, to the graffiti splattered concrete wastlands opf Northern Spain, two miles down the road Everton were signing Wayne Rooney.

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:34 pm

And rafa is making wholesale changes at youth level to try and produce players - but its not as you suggest the fact " as soon as we started signing pedro etc we stopped producing" we still were signing english lads and had english lads in the youth system they just werent good enough . And arsenal dont seem to have a problem with these dripping wet pedros they sign .

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:35 pm

bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:some of these scouts have been doing the job for well over 30 odd years and have a much better knowledge of any of us and scour the whole world trying to find the best there is .

And who would have thought it? While they were off scouring the World, from dustbowls in Northern African outposts, to snow covered Alpine backwaters in the depths of Norway, to the graffiti splattered concrete wastlands opf Northern Spain, two miles down the road Everton were signing Wayne Rooney.

One player mick - who wanted to play for everton and hate liverpool with a passion from when he was a baby and even stated when he was asked to pop to Liverpool said never in a million years would he join Liverpool and said he would rather work in a corner shop than play for Liverpool.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:36 pm

GYBS wrote:And rafa is making wholesale changes at youth level to try and produce players - but its not as you suggest the fact " as soon as we started signing pedro etc we stopped producing" we still were signing english lads and had english lads in the youth system they just werent good enough . And arsenal dont seem to have a problem with these dripping wet pedros they sign .

Its obviously the manager then, so lets sack Rafa and sign Wenger

by **GYBS** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:37 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:And rafa is making wholesale changes at youth level to try and produce players - but its not as you suggest the fact " as soon as we started signing pedro etc we stopped producing" we still were signing english lads and had english lads in the youth system they just werent good enough . And arsenal dont seem to have a problem with these dripping wet pedros they sign .

Its obviously the manager then, so lets sack Rafa and sign Wenger

Hence why for the first time Rafa now has FULL control over the Academy and will be able to run it the way he wants so maybe we might see more positive results coming through .

by **JoeTerp** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:38 pm

bigmick wrote:The reason we are encountering such a robust defence of the system (despite the fact it isn't producing any players) is that the usual suspects think this is byt definition a dig at the manager. Such is life.

I think you could have made it more clear that weren't having a dig at Rafa, because there were certainly overtones of it.

by **DrPepe** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:39 pm

bigmick wrote:The reason we are encountering such a robust defence of the system (despite the fact it isn't producing any players) is that the usual suspects think this is byt definition a dig at the manager. Such is life.

possibly

No matter who the manager is currently , by definition a system that hasn#t produced any players good enough to play for the first team consistently in over 10 years is failing badly - since gerard was first associated with the club, we;ve had 4 different managers and slim pickings from the youth setup - certainly nothing like the generation of talent the mancs brought througharound that time...

with any luck the recent dramatic changes in personnel will improve matters... but it won't be quick

by **bigmick** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:40 pm

SORRY, I SHOULD HAVE QUOTED GYBS HERE......

"And rafa is making wholesale changes at youth level to try and produce players - but its not as you suggest the fact " as soon as we started signing pedro etc we stopped producing" we still were signing english lads and had english lads in the youth system they just werent good enough . And arsenal dont seem to have a problem with these dripping wet pedros they sign . "

I'll say it again. To produce players you have to get two things right. Number one, you have to sign the right players in the first place. Number two, you have yo give youth chance to flourish. For someone who is fond of saying "and still no answer to my question", you do seem to have trouble understanding other peoples posts.

I'm happy that Rafa is addressing the "problem" of our youth system (at least unlike you he recognises that there is one), but I perosnally don't think it's the most productive way to go about it. Now I knwo when I say that that I leave myself open to some strange interventions about a dildo seller thinking he knows more than the manager, but as we haven't produced any players for years I've got as much chance of talking sense on the subject as anyone else.

My feeling is that we are overly concentrating both on procuring kids from abroad, and also that we are placing too much emphasis on "technical skill". If we used up as much energy trying to sign the very best British kids as we do those from Europe, perhaps we would have more Wayne Rooneys and less Lee Peltiers. Also, as Carra can't trap a bag of cement, he more than likely wouldn't get a sniff which can't be right. Quite what those at the academy would have made of a young Dirk Kuyt (or even a fully grown Dirk Kuyt come to that) would be a sight worth seeing.

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