Liverpool FC Forum

by **taff** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:10 pm

Some people just dont like Rafa, I think it is that simple.

But they will be delighted to be proved wrong if he wins the league but in the meantime they have their doubts and dont rate him. And if we win nothing this season he should go but if he wins then they will join in with the celebrations. :laugh:

by **aCe'** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:14 pm

GYBS wrote::;):

Then again i reckon some might even still want him sacked and some players sold even if we won every trophy going

got me again you little bugger :blush:

by **GYBS** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:21 pm

Its quite simple Ace - can tell by the various threads you neither rate our manager nor any of our players bar Gerrard and Torres and want everyone else replaced by various players that are good on Football manager but all cost around 20 to 30 mil each . So if rafa won everything going it still wouldnt be enough for you and you would still want most of the team gone

by **heimdall** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:25 pm

GYBS wrote:

Then again i reckon some might even still want him sacked and some players sold even if we won every trophy going

Like who?

by **112-1077774096** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:30 pm

heimdall wrote:
GYBS wrote::;):

Then again i reckon some might even still want him sacked and some players sold even if we won every trophy going

Like who?

don't encourage him

by **GYBS** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:38 pm

heimdall wrote:
GYBS wrote::;):

Then again i reckon some might even still want him sacked and some players sold even if we won every trophy going

Like who?

look at the top of the thread - there is your answer

by **heimdall** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:53 pm

GYBS wrote:
heimdall wrote:
GYBS wrote::;):

Then again i reckon some might even still want him sacked and some players sold even if we won every trophy going

Like who?

look at the top of the thread - there is your answer

What Peewee's anti rafa well I would never have guessed that :shifty

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:05 pm

bigmick wrote:I'm not proposing we should jeapordise our Premiership challenge in order to win the Carling Cup, I'm just saying we should look at it as it is a trophy. I've long advocated having a squad for it from the outset, Arsenal style if you like, and playing them all the way through. Make Lucas captain, tell Insua he plays every round, Babel and El Zahr too. Crucially though, tell the players you are going all out an that you expect to win the fecker. If we draw Blackburn Away, stick a couple of first teamers in to stiffen up the whole operation.

As for the FA Cup, barring a rank bad draw (Arsenal, Chelsea or the Mancs Away) we should be able to beat anybody anywhere. Like all things, just got to believe.

But don't we do that already Mick? A couple of years back I know that Rafa did a Wenger and played the kids pretty much all the way through the Carling Cup competition. I remember they turned over Tottenham's first team in the semi-final or something, which was considered a bit of a coup for the lads. That may have been the year we lost to Chelsea in the final. In any event, I think Rafa pretty much plays the squad players in the Carling Cup each season, with a few first-teamers (like Torres on occasion!) thrown in. I also doubt very much if our manager sends them out with any message that suggests he's not a.rsed about the cup and doesn't care if they come up short. By every account, Rafa is intense, meticulous and fixated on winning so I'm sure that gets communicated to the lads.

So, why do they fall short? Well, frankly, because our squad is a little threadbare in places and doesn't always come up with the goods. Do you back Lucas, El Zhar, Babel etc. to overcome the Spurs first team (or Fulham's or Portsmouth's, etc.) on a consistent basis? I know I don't. Chances are, they'll get past some teams and falter against others because they don't have the requisite quality or consistency (otherwise they'd be pushing our first-team harder). But, in an age where the Carling Cup is way down the priority list and where our own fans see winning the league as the be all and end all--even to the point of advocating, in some cases, that we should field a weakened team in the CL group stages in order to focus on the league--I think this is a reality we have to live with. After all, as you've said yourself, you can't play the same 11 every week and the Carling Cup is the prime venue for styling that we have in the first half of the season, with league and CL fixtures coming thick and fast and the margin for error virtually nil. In this context, you send out the squad players in the Carling Cup and you take your chances.

Now, turning to the FA Cup, I think it's important to make something very clear. We've played pretty much our best team in the FA Cup this past year. Hell, we even sent out the stars at Preston this past January to ensure that our cup run didn't stall before it got started. That tells me that Rafa sees this as an important competition and an excellent chance at a meaningful trophy (further reinforcing the idea that the Carling Cup is a bit of a tinpot trophy to everyone except those who win it). Unfortunately, like all cup runs, there is a strong element of chance. This season, we happened to draw Everton at a time when we were struggling for form. Would we have scraped through despite our poor form if we weren't playing our local rivals? It's impossible to say but I think there's a good chance we would have. But, that's life in football. Actually, it's what makes the FA Cup interesting because there are always upsets. Unlike the Premiership, which seems to go to form more often than not, 'easy' matches on paper in the FA Cup can go pear-shaped very quickly (remember that Barnsley also managed to beat Chelsea last year after knocking us out, while Everton got past the Mancs this season). It's a hard cup to win, frankly, and I think we should accept that reality.

I'm rambling a bit here but my point is this: I think Rafa sets us up correctly for both domestic cups. He plays the squad players in the Carling Cup in the Fall and hopes they do the business, while resting his stars for the more important league and CL campaigns. In the winter, when the FA Cup rolls around, he plays a strong team and looks to get us deep into that competition. Unfortunately, in recent years, we've struggled for form in January/February and have been knocked out of the cup by teams we should be beating. Is that because the lads lack belief? Perhaps but I don't think it's because the manager isn't taking these competitions seriously.

by **account deleted by request** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:22 pm

taff wrote:Some people just dont like Rafa, I think it is that simple.

I don't see why someone has to dislike Rafa to believe that we could get someone better?

I don't dislike Kuyt, Riera or Arbeloa but I believe we could get better.

I don't like some things that Rafa does, just as I don't like some things that Kuyt does, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate some of the things they do well.

by **GYBS** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:23 pm

Do you think he also uses the FA Cup to either get some form of confidence or to keep a good run of form going and to keep the players going ?

by **Bad Bob** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:37 pm

GYBS wrote:Do you think he also uses the FA Cup to either get some form of confidence or to keep a good run of form going and to keep the players going ?

I think the key thing to remember about the FA Cup is scheduling. Unlike the Carling Cup, which is played midweek in the fall amidst all of the other league and CL fixtures, the FA Cup replaces league action over several weekends in the winter, largely during the hiatus between the group stages and knockout stages of the CL.

In practical terms, that means that we can and in fact must play our best players (when fit) in the FA Cup to keep them sharp, whereas we must use the squad in the Carling Cup so as to not burn out the first-teamers who are heavily involved in the league and CL campaigns at that stage. Where it gets tricky is when we're still in the FA Cup in mid-February, with the restart of the CL looming. Last year Barnsley knocked us out on the eve of the first CL knockout round, arguably because we had an eye and half looking ahead to the match with Inter. But, the supporters, the press and the football world at large fixate more on the Champions League than the FA Cup so it's not surprising if the players shift their focus at that time as well.

Interestingly, the year we won it (the FA Cup) things seemed to work in reverse. We played and beat the Mancs in the FA Cup (cheers Crouchy!) three days before we faced Benfica in Portugal for the first leg of the first round of the CL knockout stage. We lost 1-0 in Portugal that night and never recovered, making the FA Cup are main chance of silverware. Perhaps that means we need a big FA Cup fixture in February in order to keep us focused on it rather than the CL, although our results against Everton this season test that hypothesis (or prove once and for all that they are a small club

).

by **GYBS** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:45 pm

yeah as the cup run went on the best and strongest team was used that season as well as in the league as there was no CL to worry about . I think this season was the first season where we could be strong in both the CL and league and think we will develop more from that . I like the FA Cup as a competition and owuld like us to win it more times .

by **bigmick** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:04 pm

I'm just fishing for reasons/excuses as to why we've underperformed in the domestic cups to be honest. As it is, because we went so well in the league last season nobody is really too bothered about the fact we haven't won anything for three seasons and fair enough. If though for instance next season Chelsea find their feet again and we finsih third, ten points back and still win nothing, then people will begin to look at it again I reckon.

The good thing with winning a domestic cup here and there is that it keeps the whole thing ticking over. Once again I'm stressing that the Premiership is THE holy grail, but if we go all out for it for three more seasons and don't win either it or anything else, Rafa would in the fullness of time be considered an abject failure by many. No trophies in six seasons would be a hardrecord to defend. Win the Carling Cup or the FA Cup or something and at least we avoid all that.

by **GYBS** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:08 pm

Nice and positive outlook mick - us finishing third , no trophies in 6 years etc .

Why not we finish first and we win 3 trophies in 6 years ? more than realistic chances of that happening .

by **bigmick** » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:16 pm

GYBS wrote:Nice and positive outlook mick - us finishing third , no trophies in 6 years etc .

Why not we finish first and we win 3 trophies in 6 years ? more than realistic chances of that happening .

Aw behave yourself for fecks sake fella will you. It's not an "outlook" positive or otherwise. I'm not saying WE WILL WIN NOTHING FOR SIX YEARS I'm just saying we need to start winning cups.

It's the close season and people speculate about all sorts of nonsesne. What happens if this happens, what happens if we sign him or him. We even had a thread FFS where people were trying to guess who we'll play in the first game of the season

So what?

I'm saying that it would be great if we won a cup. Not that controversial really, STOP TRYING TO STIFLE DEBATE MATE!!!!!

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