A sport or a business

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby A.B. » Mon Sep 06, 2004 10:40 pm

John Barnes' Granny wrote:That'll be a sad, sad day for football.

When that happens I will become an Eskimo  :D
jk

Because of the world that we live in today, sports has become pure bussiness.
YNWA - DrummerPhil
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Postby anfieldadorer » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:16 am

Fish, an animal or a food?
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Postby anfieldadorer » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:18 am

A watch, a time pointer or a jewelry?
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:27 am

AB

Do you think Raf needs to be a businessman or can he leave that to directors. Just imagine Clive Woodward trying to value a player but then again maybe he can cos it seems to be very subjective.
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:34 am

JBG

Interesting analogy with American football, I got interested in ice hockey and I'm aware of the drafting and franchise scheme.

I think the way the transfer and wages are going its going to fractionalise the clubs anyway, the rich will get richer and the poor poorer but then as the wage/transfer bill increase then even the rich teams will not be able to afford and so the organisers of the games (the FA) will have to step in for control.

I'm not sure where this leaves the fans who are emotionally tied to the clubs and just want their team to win and are not influenced by the money, other than what they have to pay to watch.
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:38 am

Simply put the fans have very little influence in reality, they only develop this when they mass picket etc but even then I think they are pretty ineffective.

While all these external businesses (Sky, merchandise, etc) take there cut out of the game there isn't much left for the fans at the end ???
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Postby LFC #1 » Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:45 am

It has elements of both.

Winning is still very important to many players, and most ambitoius players want to win trophies in their career's which leads to transfers to bigger clubs and what have you.

However,  today's game has become very money driven, and guys like Abramovich are not making it better by inflating prices on the transfer market and investing 100's of millions into a FOOTBALL CLUB.

JBG's analogy is sad, but to a large extent true, I am not sure if it will get as far as he suggests, but unfortunately with the money invloved today, the bigger clubs are getting further away from the small clubs, and the moment a club like Norwich or Southampton or whoever it may be, bring up a good young player, one of the bigger clubs will snap them up.

Fortunately Liverpool are still seen as a big club in Europe and have the attraction to bring top mangers and players due to our history and constantly playing in the top European competitons.

Unfortunately the fans are the ones who ultimately pay. To your everyday fan, they are not worried about money and politics in the game they just want to see their team compete at the highest level and do their best to win trophies.   :(
Last edited by LFC #1 on Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Redrider » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:24 am

Supporters are only required at games to provide background atmosphere for the TV and the Corporate Executives in the Box'es. Otherwise Club's can make their money from sponsorship and sales of branded goodies to armchair fan's. Real supporters, take too much interest in the club and demand too much attention, making themselves more of a nuisance and a hinderence to the club's.  ???  ???
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Postby azriahmad » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:32 am

The reality of it is that one of the key (I said one of the key, not THE key) ingredients is undoubtedly money/business. If you have enough money, you can buy quality players or retain your best players. You don't need lots and lots, just enough. This is the difference between even the big clubs and the mega clubs. Big clubs are supposed to spend within their means. Buy good players, give them good contracts or retain your good players by rewarding them with better contracts periodically.

Mega clubs or those that aspire to becoming big by outspending others are endangering the sport because they always use money to outbid others because this is their main attraction. Because of thisd, their budget gets bloated and they need to raise money from any means including all-out merchandising or having lucrative tours around the world. Mega minded clubs tend to spend more then what they make and without success to bolster the ever increasing expenditure, these clubs are in danger of becoming bankrupt. Good examples are mainly Italian clubs like Lazio. Until 2 years ago, Real Madrid was in danger of folding under debts but lucky for them they have a piece of prime land in Madrid which use to house their training ground. They sold this land and are now virtually debt free. Their budget keeps increasing and sooner or later, they will be in debt again. Their survival in the previous years owes also to their CL success.

So, in an ideal world, football should be a sport first with the business part coming as a supplement to keep the club afloat without making losses. manure and bayern munich are 2 of the most financially well run clubs in the world. They make profits but not excessive as the revenue is largely offset by high transfer costs and wages. Now, i think that bayern is a better run ship than manure because they do not bid and pay over the odds for players. What everybody needs to do is to have enough restraint of not succumbing to making audacious bids at all costs to get players no matter what the asking price is. Otherwise, the clubs have to keep increasing their business part to make sure they can make ends meet.

If these "mega" mentality persist, then business will inevtiably become a more important part of the clubs until one day it may even overtake the importance of the footballing side. Impossible, you say? Take a look at another sport where the business side have overtaken the sporting side - Formula 1. In the good old days, drivers have a few seasons to make it. Now, if you are not coveted like a very select few (like Mark Webber etc. who can struggle in a struggling team and not face pressure of getting sacked), you will get less than 1 full season to make your mark and some of them have to bring sponsors to the teams, lift theses teams with limited means and may still get ditched by the year end.

To some extent, the clubs themselves should also exercise restraint in bidding for players and offering them contracts.
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:32 pm

TAf

Can't see the fans allowing clubs to combine as this goes to the heart of "supporting a team" which is a cultural issue. I think they would rather let it rest than go in with another club.
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:34 pm

REdrider

If this was the case why then do clubs build new stadiums, just to let TV have a nice backdrop?
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Postby kindaconfuzed » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:38 pm

Not sure all of these worthy postings answer the whole issue, the dynamics are an issue. Why then is that some of the lower clubs have players on loan who arent given contracts.

What I mean is how do some players demand and get huge amounts and yet in the same league they are existing week to week, what drives this occurence?
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Postby stmichael » Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:42 pm

interesting thread this. football is very much a business these days, especially with an increasing number of clubs being PLC's. the comparison between us and the scum is a prime example of the changing nature of football.

parallels may be drawn between the respective club’s success on the field and even their geographical proximity, but that my friends are where any parallels end. i am sure that you don’t need reminding of the fact that in 2 weeks there’s the small matter of a game between this country’s two most successful clubs. on the one hand, there’s liverpool. four times champions of europe and winners of 18 league championships. undisputedly, they are the ****** of the north and undisputedly the kings of english football. honour, dominance, courage, character and wisdom.
 
on the other hand we have the poorer cousin of the legendary scouse greats, manchester united PLC. undisputedly rich with wealth, fat chequebooks, eastern sweat shops, commercialism personified and a blinding prawn sandwich turnover. there’s no doubt that they are a successful club. their manager, in his longevity, has brought tremendous success to the mancs’ realm, but nevertheless, with all their recent silverware, there is one thing their wealth cannot buy - heart and soul.
 
that my friends is the truth. :)
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Postby jymbojetset » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:30 pm

Please don't jump on me for this - devils advocate here -

Michael Owen, came through acadamy, gave us plenty of goals sold for £12M (ish) - good business
Steven Gerrad, ditto acadamy, gave heart and soul, to Real (?) - £30M - good business.

Surely there must be others coming through acadamy to replace them - problem is time.

Also consider though,
Diao, Diouf, Traore, Biscan, Kewell (jury's out, though I'm a fan of his) - bad business? Think how much they have cost us, not just in terms of money, but in lost revenue through poor results.

I'm like most people on this forum, I would pay to play for my beloved team, but it's a chicken and egg, we need results to get the money to get the players to get the results etc..

Football is unique, no other sport in the world provokes the same sort of reactions and loyalty (talk to supporters of Exeter, Chester), yes everyone has a second club or a fondness for other teams, but you stick with your team for life.

The money men have realised this and they're cashing in - let's hope they don't f**k up the game for the true supporters, as ultimately we're the suckers who pay!
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Postby stmichael » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:39 pm

jymbojetset wrote:Michael Owen, came through acadamy, gave us plenty of goals sold for £12M (ish) - good business
Steven Gerrad, ditto acadamy, gave heart and soul, to Real (?) - £30M - good business.

Surely there must be others coming through acadamy to replace them - problem is time.

the players in the "academy" are obviously not good enough though. if they were they would have already been given first team opportunities on a regular basis. john welsh is supposedly the natural successor to gerrard but i've never seen him play for us. :(
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