Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:40 pm

Taken from another Liverpool website, the questions are as follows.

1. Does a successful season mean that silverware must be won, or does style win over substance?

2. Player's books: should they be left until their career has finished, ie: when they've actually done something?

3. Benitez leaves Liverpool. Torres, Reina and Gerrard follow him. Do you admire their loyalty to the man, or should loyalty to the club come first?

4. Would you rather the club dropped down a division or two, so as to clear the debt, and start 'afresh', or are you happy for them to carry on being hindered by lack of cashflow?

5. A summer with no World Cup or European Championships: do you count down the days until the new season starts, or do you enjoy the break from football?

by **GYBS** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:45 pm

1. No - You can have a successful season without winning trophies - we did last year , it was a success in terms of getting closer to the title

2. Definately should be done once they have finished - Have read Carra , Robbie and Gerrards book and they are so thin and lacking of much compared to Rushes and Thommos .

3. Loyalty should be to the club but you can understand why they leave

4. No i would definatly not - we may never get back to a competitive level just like Leeds so would take being in the top 2 in the prem and challenging for CL any day of the week .

5. Bit of both - hate the summer mainly because of all the press specualtion b.o.llocks but does give me time to enjoy my golf and cricket

by **DrPepe** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:57 pm

Success = winnin stuff

But I can appreciate that coming runner up is a positive thing sometimes, esp if you're not used to it

by **lakes10** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:01 pm

1, You can have a successful season without winning trophies , but you must ask why your team did not win and what is missing, if the same happend the next year then the club must act.

2. should be done once they dont play anymore, they can say how they feel and it dont have a knock on to the team.

3. they should have loyalty to the club, it would make you the manager had no feelings for the fans.

4. never take the drop, it can be hard to get back up, ride out the hard time, things will get better, football has needed this to happen to show that money is a problem in the game.

5. count the days and thank god for golf and cricket , make up my own would cup chart and use ladybirds as the teams, first ladybird off the flower wins (thats a joke by the way...i am not that sad.......or am i)

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:07 pm

1. Does a successful season mean that silverware must be won, or does style win over substance?

1. Yes - a successful season means you have won something. First is first second is no where. I would rather win the league playing like Wimbledon than come second playing like Barca. We are Liverpool...... not some second rate club that thinks its hit the jackpot qualifying for europe.

2. Player's books: should they be left until their career has finished, ie: when they've actually done something?

I like reading about current or recent events more than what happened 15 years ago, so even though they have to be more "careful" with their stories, I happy with players to release them when they have achieved something rather than much later.

3. Benitez leaves Liverpool. Torres, Reina and Gerrard follow him. Do you admire their loyalty to the man, or should loyalty to the club come first?

3. There should only be one loyalty that counts and that's to the club. Any player that believes their loyalty is to the manager doesn't understand what club he is playing for.

4. Would you rather the club dropped down a division or two, so as to clear the debt, and start 'afresh', or are you happy for them to carry on being hindered by lack of cashflow?

4. Sadly if we dropped down a division or two I doubt that we could clear our debt and recover. So even though it would be "nice" to clear our debt, in real terms it would be unrealistic to expect us to recover as the lost revenue would cripple us even more.

5. A summer with no World Cup or European Championships: do you count down the days until the new season starts, or do you enjoy the break from football?

5. I love football so anything that help break up the monotony of the summer months is welcome. I just wish our players would all retire from international football

by **GYBS** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:13 pm

I reckon you can pretty much guess what most posters will say - so far im right on Lakes and Saint

Pretty much said what i would expect you too

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:34 pm

GYBS wrote:I reckon you can pretty much guess what most posters will say - so far im right on Lakes and Saint Pretty much said what i would expect you too

Yeah there aren't many surprises in our views. The only real shock I have had recently was Mick's "I trust Rafa " thread.

by **Bammo** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:37 pm

1 - A short term view says no and that any significant improvement over previous seasons is success. Long term view is yes - in decades to come no one will look back and say it was successful when we haven't won anything.

2 - Players books should only be done when there's enough interesting material to include. A player may have something really interesting to reveal (overcoming personal tragedy etc) mid-career. Other than that, wait until retirement so the truth and scandal can be revealed!

3 - Loyalty should be to the club only. Managers, players, staff etc all come and go, the club remains.

4 - Relegation would be suicide. The revenues are so small in the lower leagues that it would be impossible to regain our current position.

5 - Transfer speculation entertains me for about a week and then I get bored. i also lose track of the days of the week :laugh:

by **GYBS** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:49 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:I reckon you can pretty much guess what most posters will say - so far im right on Lakes and Saint Pretty much said what i would expect you too

Yeah there aren't many surprises in our views. The only real shock I have had recently was Mick's "I trust Rafa " thread.

Yeah that was a turn up for the books and a shock to the system

by **Owzat** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:27 pm

stmichael wrote:1. Does a successful season mean that silverware must be won, or does style win over substance?

People play football to win, anyone who doesn't might as well not bother. The ultimate goal is a trophy, to be "the best" even if it is only in a two bit competition, BUT there are only a handful of trophies to go round so some deem a successful season on lower targets eg finishing fifth.

Success is probably best defined by the person, or in this case club, seeking it. What is one man's success is another man's failure. An example can be Aston Villa who sought Champions League football and ended up in the Europa League, to them that is a (relatively) successful season, to us it would be a poor season as our level is Champions League qualification as a minimum requirement.

Did we have a successful season? In terms of stats and records yes, finishing second was good, but in terms of the ultimate success(es) we won nothing. We set out looking to win the league and didn't, how can that be considered a "success"? It's like learning to drive, unless you pass the Test how successful can you declare yourself? "Good effort", "unlucky", "the examiner was biased/blind/stupid/can't drive" etc

stmichael wrote:2. Player's books: should they be left until their career has finished, ie: when they've actually done something?

You should only write a book when it's worth reading, if someone has something interesting to write based on their early career or halfway through then why do they have to have hung up their boots for it to be interesting?

That said, their motive for writing books is suspect, probably driven by their agent. And does having "done something" like say Phil Neville has done by sponging off the quality of his former teammates make what he might say in his book any more interesting than say Torres who has won nothing by comparison? Would you not want to read She-Ra's book because he won FA and Berbatov's because he won a trophy or two in two seasons in England?

Newcastle haven't won feck all in years, they're one of the most interesting stories/jokes around

stmichael wrote:3. Benitez leaves Liverpool. Torres, Reina and Gerrard follow him. Do you admire their loyalty to the man, or should loyalty to the club come first?

Loyalty should be to their employers, Benitez may have signed Torres and Reina but the club coughed up the money for fees and wages. And what about loyalty to the supporters? I can understand ex-managers wanting to take the cream from their previous club, but surely the decision by the players should be made no more than loyalty to a man(ager)?

I'm assuming by "follow him" it means to his new club and not out the door sacked or merely into unemployment.

In the same vein I would argue fans should support the club not a player or manager, sometimes you wonder where loyalties do lie

stmichael wrote:4. Would you rather the club dropped down a division or two, so as to clear the debt, and start 'afresh', or are you happy for them to carry on being hindered by lack of cashflow?

I don't think many fans would ever welcome relegation, especially with no guarantee of returning to "former glory". I think the club should do what it takes to remain solvent and avoid going into administration, that in itself is a humiliation not worth tolerating. So if we have to sell Torres, Gerrard and Alonso to stay afloat then so be it, whatever consequence comes with that then we'd have to put up with it, even if a drop down a division.

Ultimately I'd hope the manager could sell some stars and bring in some bargains so the worst we faced was a spell outside the 'big four' and maybe midtable. Decent players don't have to cost the earth and I'm sure a side including say Cavalieri, Arbeloa, Insua, Carragher, Aurelio, Plessis, Voronin, N'Gog none of whom cost more than £3m could be shaped into a half-decent side with a few other signings or more expensive existing players, enough to be decent enough. (Gerrard assumed sold as a big income asset, not sure we'd get half what we'd get for him for Carra)

I'm sure I'm not the only fan on here who won't stop supporting Liverpool if we were to suffer the worst, mancs may knock us but I'm sure our fans would stay loyal in the main. (doubt most of their's know loyalty since they jumped on the bandwagon between 1993 and 2009, either from another club or their first taste of football)

stmichael wrote:5. A summer with no World Cup or European Championships: do you count down the days until the new season starts, or do you enjoy the break from football?

I enjoy International competitions, qualifiers are ok, but I do watch England. I don't feel the need to declare "club before country" parrot fashion like a lot of fans do. Gerrard will be picked for England, it doesn't directly conflict with our games so get over it. It is possible to support both, plenty do, I do not see why so many feel the need to make it either/or. (although it is probably to validate themselves as a "true" fan, sorry but there's no VIP seats reserved for declaring yourself "club before country")

I guess for me the emptiness of the summer without Liverpool playing is filled by cricket and other sports to some degree, not that there isn't some overlap.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:48 pm

Owzat wrote:In the same vein I would argue fans should support the club not a player or manager, sometimes you wonder where loyalties do lie

I have just picked out this little bit of your post mate, as I think you make an excellent point.

by **Owzat** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:57 pm

s@int wrote:
Owzat wrote:In the same vein I would argue fans should support the club not a player or manager, sometimes you wonder where loyalties do lie

I have just picked out this little bit of your post mate, as I think you make an excellent point.

....................and the rest was a load of rubbish not worth quoting........................................

by **RobinHood6969** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:31 am

1.No a successful season is one gives the team and the fans some sort of satisfaction. It doesnt mean you have to win something
2. Yes only once you finish your career the story is complete
3. Loyalty is how you define it
4.No chance of accepting going down a division
5.Would miss football badly, but summer always has wimbledon and this year world 20-20 as well

by **Owzat** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:24 pm

RobinHood6969 wrote:1.No a successful season is one gives the team and the fans some sort of satisfaction. It doesnt mean you have to win something

Were you happy being trophyless and second best? Second is better than 3rd, 4th and 5th which Rafa has managed in his time, but I thought we were looking to be CHAMPIONS not runners-up not also rans.

Rafa probably would dress the season up as successful, in relative terms of our Premiership era it was, but not in terms of having been in charge five seasons and still not won the title he was brought in to win

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