s@int wrote:For me Alonso doesn't create enough, while Masch does his job, so I voted to sell Alonso. (I also think when Masch is at the top of his game he is World class, sadly he has only shown this in a few games this season)
bavlondon wrote:I voted Alonso. I also think he doesn't create enough. Masch does his job but we need someone more proactive to create and score.
Bad Bob wrote:s@int wrote:For me Alonso doesn't create enough, while Masch does his job, so I voted to sell Alonso. (I also think when Masch is at the top of his game he is World class, sadly he has only shown this in a few games this season)
For the sake of a bit of discussion, I've highlighted this part of your post, mate, because I think you could look at it in a very different way. Masch may do his job but it's a job that perhaps isn't that vital against all but a handful of teams. Do we really need him against the likes of Sunderland at Anfield, for instance? Whereas, with Alonso we have a player that dictates tempo from deep (i.e. the deep-lying playmaker) and who also does a solid job of shielding the back four when necessary--which should be sufficient against many teams in the league. Plus, as you say, we could probably replace Masch more easily with a cheaper alternative for the 'big' games where a spoiler is needed so, from that perspective, keeping Alonso would make more sense too. As for Xabi not creating enough, I guess that depends on what kind of expectations you have. As a deep-lying playmaker he surely can't be expected to be playing 1-2s around the "D" most of the match. I see his role as dictating tempo and providing the platform for our attacks--which he does very well (i.e. he does his job). Since he's been, by everyone's admission, back to his best this season and since this has been a season that has seen as collect a record number of points and outscore everyone in the league, I'd say he does create enough. Put another quality attacker in front of him to complement Gerrard, Torres and the likes of Kuyt, Benayoun and Riera when on form and we'll be in great shape IMO.
bigmick wrote:It's an interesting question and not as straight forward as it at first seems. My guess is that pretty much everyone would instantly hit the "sell mash" option (particularly as there isn't an "others" which obviously I'd press and then think of one). It kind of comes back though to the thread of a while ago where the question was posed "what is Rafa thinking of" when considering selling Alonso.
Not for the first time, S@int is onto something I think with his talk of the difficulty of breaking down the bus parkers. Equally, we have to ask (as some people have) what's the point of Masherano? I personally think that the point of Masherano is that he is so good as a defensive midfielder that his partner is given license to basically feck off and do whatever he wants. Sit Masherano in front of a decent back four (and I think we need a better centre half TBH) and his partner is given the opportunity to "unleash hell". Does Xabi do it enough? Well it's arguable.
Clearly though, we have to create more from somewhere. My personal feeling is that against the bus parkers (little did Mourinho know his phrase would be enshrined into English football, just like his points record) clearly we need to do something. We could just say that our number of draws over the last TWO seasons is just bad luck, one of those things, down to the refs and the rest, or on the other hand we could be sensible. Now it's hard to imagine an improvement on Gerrard and Torres, so it's either the wide areas or in central midfield that something needs to happen.
My own preference would be to keep Alonso if humanly possible, as I think the sum of his parts is still significant. I think though to get round a massed defence you need to move the ball quickly. You need fluidity of movement, imagination, pace, instant control, vision. You need players who can beat a man, can see a pass. If you look at our front five (discounting Masherano as the sitter) there is one glaring weak link in the chain. Apologies to the Kuyt-hawks, but sometimes difficult decisions have to be made. Sometimes players have to be moved on at the absolute optimum of their value graph. If anyone needs to make way, for me it's Dirk.
s@int wrote:The problem is even with "Alonso dictating the tempo," we are still failing to break teams down. Stoke 0-0 home and away, Fulham at home, West Ham at home etc etc.
We need someone who is more creative in the final third, and who can occasionally run with the ball creating space for other players, someone who creates actual chances. Its no point having the majority of the possession if you aren't creating enough chances to win games.
IMO it comes down to a choice of either improving our wide players (bringing in more threat and creativity) or improving through the middle ...... which has to be Alonso.
Alonso has shown his defensive limitations in the past as our record against top sides shows, and so if we need more creativity we cannot rely on Alonso and bring in a creative partner. Therefore I would argue that to improve our creativity in the final third we would have to partner Masch with a more creative partner than Alonso.
Obviously my preference would be to bring in a more creative player even further forward (Tevez/Silva) Sadly I don't think that will be an option given our current financial situation. So if forced I would sell Alonso and bring in a very creative attacking midfielder.
Alonso for me is the perfect player for counter attacking football, but unfortunately its against the "park the bus" boys that his limitations show.
In an ideal world we would sign a creative second striker and keep both, but Alonso for me is not a defensive midfielder, and so he would be my choice to go.
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