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by **Woollyback** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:14 pm

andy_g wrote:lets get back on topic here - was the universe created by a superior intelligence or not?

lets say that i decide that the universe is far too complicated, and random, and impossible and coincidental that it can't possible have come into existence all on its own. so i have to come to the conclusion that it was created by a superior intelligence. cool, all my problems are solved - anything i can't explain i just attribute to the superior intelligence who created and everything in it.

but now i'm faced with a bigger problem. i've decided that the universe is too complex to have formed 'naturally' so it must have been created by this very very powerful, very very intelligent being that existed before the universe did.

but where the fuck did it come from?

not wigan

by **andy_g** » Thu May 28, 2009 10:31 pm

runcorn then?

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:14 am

burjennio wrote:This is little off topic from the original post but I just watched "Religulous", an anti-religion documentary put together by an American comedian called Bill Maher. Some of it comes across very well in showing some of the absolute nonsense involved in alot of the mainstream religions, other times it comes across like a bad Borat rip off, editing interviews with blinkered zealots and unnecessarily making them look even worse, you would do nothing but laugh at these wack-jobs anyway, so at times Maher comes across like nothing more than petty a$$hole. Anyway its a good watch but their is no stream so you may have to download it from one of those sites Dawson99 hates so much (eg Pirate Bay)

I haven't watch religulous yet, but for some reason I catch Real Time with Bill Maher pretty much whenever its on. Bill Maher sucks as a comedian IMO, but he does have good guests on sometimes which I guess is why I watch.

I don't think it makes sense pointing out the more ridiculous parts of religion, most believers recognize them anyway, and even religious comedians make jokes about them.

by **burjennio** » Fri May 29, 2009 1:36 am

JoeTerp wrote:
burjennio wrote:This is little off topic from the original post but I just watched "Religulous", an anti-religion documentary put together by an American comedian called Bill Maher. Some of it comes across very well in showing some of the absolute nonsense involved in alot of the mainstream religions, other times it comes across like a bad Borat rip off, editing interviews with blinkered zealots and unnecessarily making them look even worse, you would do nothing but laugh at these wack-jobs anyway, so at times Maher comes across like nothing more than petty a$$hole. Anyway its a good watch but their is no stream so you may have to download it from one of those sites Dawson99 hates so much (eg Pirate Bay)

I haven't watch religulous yet, but for some reason I catch Real Time with Bill Maher pretty much whenever its on. Bill Maher sucks as a comedian IMO, but he does have good guests on sometimes which I guess is why I watch.

I don't think it makes sense pointing out the more ridiculous parts of religion, most believers recognize them anyway, and even religious comedians make jokes about them.

in fairness Joe I think Penn and Teller did it better in a quarter of the time! Bill Maher isnt well known in the UK I take it then he's reasonably popular across the pond? Is his show based on similar themes?

by **kalos** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:31 pm

andy g- I don't believe you can PROVE the existence of a Creator or Designer , otherwise you wouldn't need a modicum of faith. I do believe the EVIDENCE for one exisitng is overwhelming.

Equally you can't PROVE evolution so to me its pseudoscience and a faith/religion in it's own right.

Also your point about the singularity just adds to the problem of no creator/designer - how did that energy, all by itself , by chance , uncontrolled produce a Universe with order and precison- form the precise movement of planets/stars /galaxies down to the inifinitesimal level of the atom and subatomic particles? Can you show us any instance of anything like that happening even on a small scale? If not then your position is one based on belief rather than evidence isn't it...?

Final point the energy always existed so the source of it - irrespective of the format it was in - must also have always existed. You don't address that issue?

by **JoeTerp** » Fri May 29, 2009 6:45 pm

burjennio wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
burjennio wrote:This is little off topic from the original post but I just watched "Religulous", an anti-religion documentary put together by an American comedian called Bill Maher. Some of it comes across very well in showing some of the absolute nonsense involved in alot of the mainstream religions, other times it comes across like a bad Borat rip off, editing interviews with blinkered zealots and unnecessarily making them look even worse, you would do nothing but laugh at these wack-jobs anyway, so at times Maher comes across like nothing more than petty a$$hole. Anyway its a good watch but their is no stream so you may have to download it from one of those sites Dawson99 hates so much (eg Pirate Bay)

I haven't watch religulous yet, but for some reason I catch Real Time with Bill Maher pretty much whenever its on. Bill Maher sucks as a comedian IMO, but he does have good guests on sometimes which I guess is why I watch.

I don't think it makes sense pointing out the more ridiculous parts of religion, most believers recognize them anyway, and even religious comedians make jokes about them.

in fairness Joe I think Penn and Teller did it better in a quarter of the time! Bill Maher isnt well known in the UK I take it then he's reasonably popular across the pond? Is his show based on similar themes?

I like Penn & Teller a lot. Penn is a huge libertarian like me. I feel like some of the topics on Bullsh*t are a bit softball though, but I guess they have lots of air time to cover. I also think it would benefit a bit if it were more meat & potatoes, but I guess the first aim is to entertain and educate 2nd.

I don't know if anybody likes him over here. He opens his show with a monologue that barely gets any laughs, and he used to have a show called Politically Incorrect, which I believe he got kicked off the air for saying something controversial (don't know what it was it was a while ago). He leans very far to the left politically and takes as many cheap shots at the right as he can get away with, but he usually has pretty smart guests on. He does usually try and get in a remark about religion about once an episode, but its not exactly appropriate all the time. He loves over simplifying things and putting dumb, blunt questions up to these experts, and when they try and explain to him what the situation is really like, he often interrupts them and brings up his personal petty point that he was trying to force the expert to agree with him on.

I really should stop watching, the more I think about it the more I don't like it.

by **burjennio** » Fri May 29, 2009 11:04 pm

I like Penn & Teller a lot. Penn is a huge libertarian like me. I feel like some of the topics on Bullsh*t are a bit softball though, but I guess they have lots of air time to cover. I also think it would benefit a bit if it were more meat & potatoes, but I guess the first aim is to entertain and educate 2nd.

I don't know if anybody likes him over here. He opens his show with a monologue that barely gets any laughs, and he used to have a show called Politically Incorrect, which I believe he got kicked off the air for saying something controversial (don't know what it was it was a while ago). He leans very far to the left politically and takes as many cheap shots at the right as he can get away with, but he usually has pretty smart guests on. He does usually try and get in a remark about religion about once an episode, but its not exactly appropriate all the time. He loves over simplifying things and putting dumb, blunt questions up to these experts, and when they try and explain to him what the situation is really like, he often interrupts them and brings up his personal petty point that he was trying to force the expert to agree with him on.

I really should stop watching, the more I think about it the more I don't like it.

I thing Religulous will be the final nail in the coffin for you, as I said he comes across very petty sometimes and in belittling people that can makes themselves look foolish all by themselves he garners unecessary sympathy for those that dont deserve it.

kalos Posted on May 29 2009,18:31andy g- I don't believe you can PROVE the existence of a Creator or Designer , otherwise you wouldn't need a modicum of faith. I do believe the EVIDENCE for one exisitng is overwhelming.

Equally you can't PROVE evolution so to me its pseudoscience and a faith/religion in it's own right.

Also your point about the singularity just adds to the problem of no creator/designer - how did that energy, all by itself , by chance , uncontrolled produce a Universe with order and precison- form the precise movement of planets/stars /galaxies down to the inifinitesimal level of the atom and subatomic particles? Can you show us any instance of anything like that happening even on a small scale? If not then your position is one based on belief rather than evidence isn't it...?

Final point the energy always existed so the source of it - irrespective of the format it was in - must also have always existed. You don't address that issue?

Sorry friend but to claim that evolution cannot be proved is just incorrect. The evidence is overwhelming. If it was a trial format the verdict would be unaminous and the only people that question it are fundamentalists with their own agenda which truly cannot be proved and has no scientific basis. However Kalos as I stated in an earlier post I believe evolution is simply an answer to how we came to be here, the process of how it happened not WHY it happened or the reason behind it.

The best way I can put it across is look at a video game. You wouldnt take the programming and code for a video game and come to the conclusion that it had came together all by itelf over billions of years yet if you were hypothetically trapped in the video game all the evidence you would be able to find would be that programming and code, not the programmers who wrote it, the company who distributed it or even the buyer who played it on his console. This probably come across as over simplyfied nonsense and possibly quite retarded but its how I stay sane!

by **tubby** » Fri May 29, 2009 11:18 pm

None of you can prove :censored:

all so the lot of you should shut up. :;):

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