Liverpool FC Forum

by **sgs** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:52 am

Glen Johnson is a poor defender, period. Our needs and resources are better served at RB by much better players like Drjo Srna for instance..

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:29 am

bigmick wrote:Whenever you go in and pay big money for a player who is largely unproven, it is by defintition a gamble. My "17 million" was really just to stir the waters up a bit, and to emphasise that I really think this kid has something. Obviously I'd rather get him for 10 or 12, but if Spurs are looking then we may have to go higher, and if we want him I think he has a chance of being worth it.

The two things to consider are firstly do we want him, and secondly is he worth what is being asked?

On the first question, I really like Arbeloa. I do tend to like the solid pro's who do a job for you every week, I even like Kuyt in truth, it's more those who try and stifle any sensible debate him from a football sense who do my head in. Arby is a solid a pro as you could get, and he is a good player too. Do we desperately need to replace him? No. Are there other spots in the team in more urgent need of surgery? Yes. So why then?

Well (little sigh here because I know which way this is going to go), because we play Dirk on the right side of midfield, and because that has a huge impact upon the flow of the team, the cohesion, the rhythm etc etc, we probably do need a footballing full back who can compensate. Arby would be peachy playing behind Ronaldo, but behind Kuyt there is a sense that we are effectively lending the bus parkers the keys to the wheel clamps which they have stationed down the right side. Kuyt is obviously going to play for the forseeable, so perhaps something has to give and unfortunately, it may be Arby.

Now Johnson, what are you paying top dollar for? Well I was talking about Insua a few days back and said that I doubted he had the tools to become an absolute World beater, and that I felt he was more likely to be a solid full back. What I meant by that is that he hasn't shown me so far that he's likely to a Danny Alves, a Patrice Evra or a Martin Skyrtel (just kidding). He's doesn't look massively pacey or tricky, obviously isn't going to arrive back post and head it in, nor does he have the cultured implement in terms of his left foot of an Aurelio. Good solid little player he is though.

In the case of Johnson, although he is unproven on the biggest stages, he has all the clubs in the bag. He has pace, power, skill, can shoot and is decent in the air. Clearly going forward he has enough going for him to cause absolutely anybody a problem, while he is easily a good enough athlete to be able to bomb up and down the line all day long. He has a trick, knocks a great ball in and looks to me to be making that transition from being a boy into a man. By that, I mean that when it kicks off he is big enough and daft enough to be in there dragging players apart, and hard enough to say to their hard ones "fecking behave yourself". Think the transition for Rio Ferdinand from gangly centre half who was prone to mistakes, into a proiper big fella who can handle himself as he is now. It happens for fellas in their mid twenties, and Johnson looks to me like he has matured both as a footballer and a person.

I think in a good team (of which we are one) he will score goals. I think he will make goals, cause goals, win matches. I think against the bus parkers, when it's locked up at 0-0 he's good enough to occasionally kick the doors in and get you the three points, a little like Evra does for Man UItd occasionally. He'll get beyond the play, he'll link it up, and he'll make Kuyts contribution more than the sum of it's parts.

Defensively he's good enough. His pace and power gets him out of most tight spots, and he's decent in the air. People saying he's worth 8 million and the like are dreaming I think. We paid 7 million for Dossena, who while being a bad example because he's really not very good, was supposed to be an attacking fullback. Well comparing Dossena even if he was very good to Glen Johnson is like comparing a Spitfire to an F16. If we want him we'll have to pay big money for him, and my guess is that whoever does is taking a gamble, but one which may pay off big style.

A cracking post Mick, and one that had me nodding my head in agreement for the most part. I stopped nodding my head when I thought more about Johnson...... and stopped reading.

He makes big mistakes, dives in to tackles, nods off and tbh I don't think he is actually as good as you think going forward.

If we were talking around the £8million mark, I think he would be worth the gamble (to me it would still be a gamble), at £15millionish I don't think he is.

I agree with most of your points about what we need, I just don't think Johnson is the player to supply it.

I am not as sure as I was about Keane (I am a better judge of forwards than defenders )but I still have huge doubts about him. I think he is the type of player that in a tight game will be likely to give away a silly freekick/penalty/get sentoff and cost us the game.

Hopefully we will either get him for a reasonable fee (way under £10million) or he is much better than I think.

by **ConnO'var** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:11 am

I tend to agree with s@int. I do feel that he is, ever so slightly

, over-hyped. For the kind of money that you're suggesting bigmick, I would rather keep Arbeloa and sort out the right attacking midfield/forward slot.....

15 or so million quid can buy you a lot of quality in that position..... Plus we'd still have Kuyt in reserve should Rafa feel the need to rotate.

by **DanAn** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:41 am

I like Glen Johnson and also agree with what Big Mick is saying, Johnson has all the right characteristics and is exactly what we need on the right but at the end of the day 15m should get you a much better player than Glen Johnson and 17m is getting to point where we are looking at world class fullbacks.

How can you say Johnson at 15-17m when guys like Miguel are reportedly on the market for 7m. Hell I reckon where a chance at Ramos or Rafinha at 17m and I know who I'd rather.

by **Owzat** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:10 pm

I said of Pennant some time back something similar to what I am about to say, and it applies generally across the board to footballers. They normally 'find their level' very quickly, that is to say the clubs they play for and their route through their career normally says a lot about how good they are. That isn't to say a quality player, or a young player who is improving, can't be at a club like Portsmouth, but if they've already moved to a big club and that big club hasn't seen fit to retain them then you have to wonder why. To make the counter-argument you might say he wasn't happy to play second fiddle, was a late developer or make various other excuses. Fact remains they will have worked with him day in, day out, and probably know better than we possibly can what his attitude is like, his concentration levels, how likely he is to reach potential etc.

PETER CROUCH - went from Tottenham youth to QPR to Portsmouth to Aston Villa to Southampton to Liverpool and back to Portsmouth. Seems happiest on the south coast, he wasn't a bad player for us but perhaps the rest of his clubs reflect better his level. Some will point to his record for England, blatantly ignoring the fact he scores in friendlies and against weak opposition, 2/3 of his goals against Hungary, Jamaica (3), Trinidad & Tobago, Andorra (2), Estonia, Macedonia and Austria. That Heskey is favoured despite a weaker scoring record speaks volumes.

DISCLAIMER : this isn't a pop at Peter Crouch, it's just some people inevitably make him out to be something better than he is and his International record is something people simply point at (probably the same people who dismiss statistics when it suits them)

DAVID BENTLEY - went from Arsenal youth to Blackburn to Tottenham. Was a good prospect at Arsenal, left in a bit of a huff and did well at Blackburn. Tottenham forked out big money and he's yet to make a big impression at a big club or for England.

GLEN JOHNSON - went from West Ham to Chelsea to Portsmouth. Played just 15 league games for West Ham, eight on loan to Millwall, before Chelsea paid £6m for him. He played 41 league games for Chelsea before being loaned and then sold to Portsmouth. He's already notched up more league games for Portsmouth than all his previous clubs combined, he'll be 25 in August so he may well become a much better player, but looking good for a small club and being consistent with the concentration needed for a big club with ambition are two different things entirely. His departure from Chelsea has been blamed on competition for RB against Ferreira and GEREMI!

Those three have either played for, or been linked with us. Whether you agree with what I say about each, their trail of clubs should provide some indication of the player. Compare with say Anelka and you can read PSG, Arsenal, Real Madrid and Chelsea on his CV. It isn't to say that means someone like Johnson with those clubs to his name is not good enough, but the fact that Chelsea were prepared to let him go suggests they didn't think him worth keeping. There can also be reservations about someone like Downing who has spent his career at Boro and no big club has decided he is worth signing - yet. There are reasons for both, for staying at a mediocre club or playing for a bunch of them. We're not talking opinions of fans, we're talking PROFESSIONAL assessments made by managers, scouts and coaching staff. It does make me worry when we start chasing someone like Downing or Johnson when other big clubs don't bother, or the other clubs linked with them like TOTTENHAM who have finished fifth a couple of times in the Premiership and not a lot else.

I agree mostly with what Mick says, although I think Kuyt isn't half the handicap to our flow that he and others suggest. I think Johnson would work out ok for us, but I'm not convinced he'd prove a massive improvement on Arbeloa or Finnan before him. £10m would be a lot to pay for a full-back, I'd want a bit more proven class before I'd throw more money than that at him. I think the England managers have a lot of reservations over him, RB should be there for the taking and yet he's no more made that position his than Micah Richards or Wes Brown - I know a number of people think Brown is a better RB and he's supposedly a CB! If we could get Richards for say £10m then I think that might prove a better move, able to play CB or RB and around FOUR years younger than Johnson. Some are critical of Richards, I've been disappointed with his progress (or lack of) this season, but he is not yet 21.

by **sworth26** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:04 pm

He will probably want to stay now, with all the developments with their new owners etc....

by **Owzat** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:17 pm

I'm not so sure, he could probably make the RB position his own at Anfield, or at least if he doesn't think he can then he can't have much confidence in his own ability. Add to that pompey aren't in Europe and unlikely to be playing CL football any time soon, or likely to repeat their cup success in a hurry, and he should look to move back to a big club before any opportunities pass him by - won't be too many years before no big club will look at him.

New owners can equally unsettle players, they'll have a new manager and there may be a few changes that inevitably come with a new manager.

by **Fauxy** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:43 pm

looks like we might be able to afford this guy since Barry is out of the question and Alonso might be leaving :oops:

by **tubby** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:09 pm

Is there anyone else we could look to instead of him? Id rather have Srna or someone.

by **Fauxy** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:13 pm

bavlondon wrote:Is there anyone else we could look to instead of him? Id rather have Srna or someone.

If Xabi leaves we could maybe do a swap deal for Sergio Ramos

as well as that striker they offered..

by **tubby** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:14 pm

He is probably one of the few players they will be hanging on to. Still I would have him here in a heartbeat.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:26 am

Rockthekop wrote:And to think Rafa refused to pay 10-12M for Alves. We would have had the RB position sorted with a top player. Huge mistake letting that opportunity go.

Glen Johnson would be a good option but he probably won't be cheap like most English players.

I think its pritty fair to say it wasnt rafa who fked the Alves deal, you should have pointed out he shouldnt have sold Crouch either, that one really pisses me off, like saying to mick you cant play the same players every week.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:00 am

Arbeloa is better than Johnson will ever be. We need a back-up, not a replacement.

Our fullbacks are strong - we don't need change.

by **Scottbot** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:04 am

Sabre wrote:If that Glenn Johnson is "potentially best RB in England" for Mick, then we should go and get him, Mick has most of the times a good eye for players.

Careful there Sabes, Mick has Torres and Earnshaw playing together in his chamionship manager Liverpool team

by **aCe'** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:10 am

Arbeloa is an average fullback at best... The other 4 all have better fullbacks not to mention better wingers... We need to improve on our wide players thats for sure but im not sure Johnson at the quoted price would be a good move... Again, theres better out there for similar or less money and i'd like to think we'll be considering all options before splashing out on a player just because hes english.... Srna, Miguel, Lahm, Rafinha are all better fullbacks who would cost similar if not less than Johnson would imo...

Then again we could always stick with Arbeloa who is always going to be a solid dependable little player who could do a job , in which case i would find it absolutly necessary to splash out to bring in a top class right winger to play ahead of him... with arbeloa-kuyt down the right i feel we're too predictable and dont offer any sort of creativity or flowing attacking play down the right side... definitely in terms of creating attacking moves i feel our right side is lacking as things stand which is always going to be a problem against the smaller sides that park the bus...

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