Liverpool FC Forum

by **Big Niall** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:20 am

ali. he is a scumbag. i was just watching a programme on joe frazier (who lives in a one bed apt)

(1) preached all this muslim bull about women covering up their bodies but he screwed all around him

(2) Joe frazier supported him when he had no boxing licence but ali then called frazier an uncle tom and a gorilla which humiliated frazier's family and children

(3) his third fight with frazier was fought in the philipines to give credence to the marcos regime which stole from the people- he didn't care as long as he got paid.

(4) his fight with foreman was in zaire where the local poor were rounded up and held in cages below the stadium

(5)) he joined the nation of islam which preached separation and even admitted that he preached to the KKK as they both believed the same things i.e separation

even larry holmes ( most underestimated champ ever?) said ali was the most over rated champ ever.

i enjoyed hearing frazier say how he f*cked up ali and laughing how he was f*cked up today but joe was fine, still sparring.

the people that don't know boxing follow cliches like " the greatest" and think he was witty and that somehow puts him above joe louis.

the boxer was great (probably top five heavyweights, top ten boxer) but the man should not be remembered as great.

by **burjennio** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:03 pm

you basing your accusations on one, very biased documentary which was clearly pro-Fraizer and while I happen to agree with alot of what was said on it (Ali being a racist and his abuse of Joe Fraizer to be at times harrassment) some of the things on it where totally baseless and with zero supporting evidence, bar the testimony from people interviewed who were again heavily biased (Fraizer allegedly giving Ali money, the stuff about preaching to the KKK) so I can't believe you can simply call a guy an a$$hole just becasue of one persons perspective of them.

I enjoyed the show when it was broadcast on More4 last year but it suffered heavily from its protagonist/antagonist viewpoint, much as Rumble in the Jungle did 10 years earlier, It protrayed George Foreman as a merciless killing machine, when we all know he's a corporate shill

In all seriousness Ali did a lot of goods things for a lot of people, his plight brought the racial inequality and inexcusable draught policies of 60s America to a global audience and helped change things for the better. He did work for charities and civil rights groups not to mention the impact he had on the commercial success of boxing and every fighter who's made his fortune should be forever grateful for the day a young Cassius Clay walked into a local gym after some fecker stole his bike!

Just a quick edit on the coments you mentioned by Larry Holmes. I can't remember if they were in the documentary or not but I can tell you as fact that Ali was Holmes idol growing up and that Holmes was a regular sparring partner for him and famously became the only man to stop him in 1980. Ali was 39. On the Champoins Forever documentary which interviewed Fraizer, Ali, Norton, Foreman and Holmes in 1988 it comes across like Holmes didn't accept Ali's decline as a factor in his destruction and he's the only person interviewed that doesn't use the words "over the hill" "shot" or "old man" when looking back on that fight.

And for whats its worth Ali shouldnt be considered the greatest fighter ever because Ken Norton beat him at least twice and only ever got one decision against him. Try finding footage of their final fight in Shea Stadium, I used to have it on video back in the day, fecking digracful decision

by **Madmax** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:21 pm

Ali was a top fighter and no one could take that from him maybe not the greatest but for me in the top 5... Feck what people say i still know he was class.

by **Big Niall** » Mon May 25, 2009 3:38 pm

The man had many good points, but also many bad points. The media just focus on the good and create a false picture of him, probably because he has M.S.

The Holmes comment was in the film - possibly because Holmes was always in his shadow. I think Holmes is up there with the greats but had zero charisma.

Holmes beating Ali is like Marciano beating Louis - a sad fight that shouldn't have happened.

by **Reg** » Mon May 25, 2009 9:05 pm

Ali above all had charisma. He was a very able boxer but more than that he was a showman and that rought the audiences and the money. Boxers before and after have lacked that charisma hence Ali still stands out as special.

He was no more sophisticated though than Joey Barton or Woodgate and made the same mistakes, silly comments and allowed manipulators like Don King etc.. to make the decisions and he just turned up to make the money for himself and his hangers on. I´m not describing Ali, I´m describing all boxes in the last 50 years from Sonny Liston through to Mike Tyson.

Sure Ali was not perfect, but neither am I and thats without people trying to manipulate me.

Someone like Frazier knows the inside beef on Ali, the thrown fights, the backstage manouvreing but can anyone say they´re honestly surprised?

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