Liverpool FC Forum

by **Octsky** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:14 pm

JoeTerp wrote:Voronin - 6M
Babel - 10M
Dossena - 5.5M

Degen - 1M
El Zhar 2M
Leto 1.5M
Anderson 750k
Hammill 500k
Itandje 750k
David Martin 500k

Martin Hansen 75k
Mendy 50k
Antwi 75k
Crowther 50k
Putterill 50k
Mackay-Steven 100k
Andras Simon 75k
Vitor Flora 75k
Threlfall 75k
Roque 50k
Lindfield 100k
Brouwer 100k

total: 29.375 Million Pounds

I would also think about selling Skrtel in order to bring in a more aerially dominant CB. Somebody worth whatever we sell Skrtel for plus 5 or so million. I would then hope we would start with Agger and Carra, then move towards Carra and this new guy, and then move towards a more permanent partnership of the new guy and Agger, with Kelly/San Jose serving as 4th choice

Hopefully we would have 20 million to start with at least. Who knows what has happened to the Keane money. ALthough we didn't go as far in the CL this year, we have already qualified for the group stages next season and because we are 2nd, we will get a higher percentage of the CL money. SO with sales and everything, I am going to assume we have 55-60 million to spend (also assuming we sell all of the above). I would think we would put in at least 5 million to the revamping of the academy, and then another 5 or so on a CB upgrade. Then minus 10 or so for Barry, which leaves us with 40 million to sign a right back, winger, and striker. Hopefully we can solve the right back opening for around 12, leaving us 28 for wingers and strikers, which means lots of options and possibilities.

If only it was so simple

we wont get 10 mil in this economic condition. hell, even if its raining money we wont get 10 mil for him. lets said its a done deal for barry and silva for 25 mil and we have 20 mil to start.
it means rafa have to find the shortfall of 5 mil somewhere.
it could be dossena. and this is looking at the bright side.

martin o neil seems very keen for barry to rot with him in villa. and silva, some club can still outbid us. rafa really have to pull some magic.

by **DanAn** » Sat May 23, 2009 5:26 pm

I think we could get 10m for Babel. Certainly I'd expect more than 7m. I think I'd prefer Tevez to Silva too even if it meant we didn't have the funds to sign Barry. he's a lot more versatile IMO and premiership proven too.

I also think Miguel as a right back reported priced at 7m is a good shout and would be good competition for Arbeloa, not sure who'd be first choice out of the two.

Martin Oniel has said he won't stop Barry from leaving too.

by **Red H** » Sat May 23, 2009 8:04 pm

This is crazy, we do not require a mass exodus.

There are a few obvious candidates who should be moved on.

The important issue is to identify, and sign player who 1) Will improve what we have (win us a game we are drawing at home) 2) Want to play for us (not just mercenaries) 3) Show the right attitude all season (not everyone can play every game) 4) Young enough to have some resale value.

by **DanAn** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:56 am

Red H wrote:This is crazy, we do not require a mass exodus.

There are a few obvious candidates who should be moved on.

The important issue is to identify, and sign player who 1) Will improve what we have (win us a game we are drawing at home) 2) Want to play for us (not just mercenaries) 3) Show the right attitude all season (not everyone can play every game) 4) Young enough to have some resale value.

I think we do need a mass exodus. We have 67 players and that number really should only be around 45. Of the players that played 1st 11, most are only suggesting three or so fringe players be put up for transfer.

If we cut 8 loan\reserve players and three fringe players from the first team. Replacing them with guys like Tevez, Johnson and Barry. I certainly wouldn't be complaining, it would strength our squad a hell of a lot.

by **Octsky** » Sun May 24, 2009 2:55 am

ya i like tevez for his commitment too. save west ham from the drop, prob biggest contributor to manc drive toward title. but 26 mil will put our budget into deficit. i said sign him sign him if we got a arab sugar daddy.

right now our owners are a giant liability, ya american, they help ended the 2nd world war but now they are evolving into a social menace. time changes.

by **bigmick** » Sun May 24, 2009 3:21 am

There are a couple of obvious "sells" in our squad. The most glaring I should think would be Dossena. He'll be on decent money, is still by all accounts held in some regard in his Home country, and is IMHO a mile away from being good enough. If we can get back 3.5 million or so of the 7 million we shelled out on him, we should be able to find another third choice left back and still have a bit of change.

The other obvious one is Babel. Once again he'll be on a decent wedge, and once again my suspicion ids that the rest of football probably hasn't seen his demise in quite the same way that Liverpool fans have. For me his attitude has gone, and whether that's because he's a doughnut or because we've p!ssed him off with our selection policy is neither here nor there. There is of course always the possibility that whoever buys him will play him as a striker not a left winger and leave us thinking "Hang on why didn't we think of that, particularly as he's a striker and not left footed?" but I think that's a chance we're simply going to have to have to take. Realistically, he's second or third choice left midfielder behind Riera and Benayoun, and probably behind even N'Gog in the strikers pecking order. I know we paid 11 mill, but I'd take 6 mill and offer to drive him there should anyone offer it.

Lucas we should keep as he's only thrid or fourth choice anyway, and I don't think we should sell any of our better players. All the others we could move on won't release any significant funds, so as far as this thread is concerned they are irrelevent.

by **kazza** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:24 am

bigmick wrote:There are a couple of obvious "sells" in our squad. The most glaring I should think would be Dossena. He'll be on decent money, is still by all accounts held in some regard in his Home country, and is IMHO a mile away from being good enough. If we can get back 3.5 million or so of the 7 million we shelled out on him, we should be able to find another third choice left back and still have a bit of change.

The other obvious one is Babel. Once again he'll be on a decent wedge, and once again my suspicion ids that the rest of football probably hasn't seen his demise in quite the same way that Liverpool fans have. For me his attitude has gone, and whether that's because he's a doughnut or because we've p!ssed him off with our selection policy is neither here nor there. There is of course always the possibility that whoever buys him will play him as a striker not a left winger and leave us thinking "Hang on why didn't we think of that, particularly as he's a striker and not left footed?" but I think that's a chance we're simply going to have to have to take. Realistically, he's second or third choice left midfielder behind Riera and Benayoun, and probably behind even N'Gog in the strikers pecking order. I know we paid 11 mill, but I'd take 6 mill and offer to drive him there should anyone offer it.

Lucas we should keep as he's only thrid or fourth choice anyway, and I don't think we should sell any of our better players. All the others we could move on won't release any significant funds, so as far as this thread is concerned they are irrelevent.

So losing a couple of million on Keane (a relatively old player) was in your opinion bad business yet you will happily lose 8-9 million on a couple young players and be happy about it. Now that makes sense :upside:

I seem to remember you were willing to take a 50% loss on Kuyte last year.

by **bigmick** » Sun May 24, 2009 10:01 am

"Losing" money on a player is kind of subjective. "Losing" money on Keane wasn't "bad business" at all, let me explain. Buying him in the first place for 20 million quid was bad business (well absolutely awful business really), getting the best price we could for him given the fact that we obviously didn't want him anymore was not bad business, it was sensible. Failing to bring in a replacement was bad management, there's a difference.

With any player, if you aren't going to play him and it's hard to concieve of a circumstance where he's going to get a game, you may as well sell him on. Sometimes, in a case Like Sinema Pongolle or Sissoko they go on to prove themselves good players, but even that doesn't mean selling them was "bad business". Neither of those two would have got regular starts for Liverpool, so selling them made sense. Keane was an awful buy by Rafa, so selling him made sense. Not bringing in a replacement didn't, as was proven by both Gerrard and Torres getting injured within a week of him leaving. Hopefully that clears that one up for you.

Onto Kuyt :laugh:

I seem to remember you posting up a couple of weeks ago that I'd been wrong on everything. You listed countless examples which proved your point, but unfortunately as per usual you were totally wrong, as I explained at great length (it was a bit long and I know you don't like those, but take it from me I did answer all your "points") . Actually, I shouldn't say "totally" because you were justified in pointing out that I was wrong in saying Kuyt wasn't deserving of a place in the team. I did say last season I'd take 5 million for him, and if anybody had bought him they'd have got good value for money. I certainly wouldn't sell him for that now, I wouldn't listen to any offer below 8 mill such has been his improvement, so you're on the money to point it out.

Lastly, the being "happy" about losing money on a couple of young players. Not unusually for you, you're wrong twice in one sentence. Firstly, Dossena at 27 isn't exactly a kid, and secondly I'm not "happy" that we paid 7 million quid for him given what we know now, nor am I over the moon we paid 11 million for Babel either. that said, we can't go back in time and it seems to me that the longer we keep them, one of two things can happen. Either, they can Kuyt style rise like a ginger headed pheonix from the bargain bin, or their respective values can erode further. Now given that neither is anywhere near the first team, it would seem to me to quite a gamble to refuse realistic offers for either, in the hope that some stirling bench sitting, or a goal or two for the reserves is going to catapult their value into the stratosphere.

If we get some money for them, we haven't "lost" money in the trues sense, as what we've paid for them has already gone, if you get me. Anyways I'll stop now as it's getting a bit long, hope I've cleared it up though.

by **Owzat** » Tue May 26, 2009 12:25 pm

I think selling Babel could be a mistake, he isn't 23 yet and while he may not have set Anfield alight (unless he commited arson last night and I haven't heard!), but he is a useful on the bench as he can play wide or up front. So he is a '2 in 1' player, and while not great in either role, he is still young and it isn't as if our bench is brimming with players who would do much better.

I'd sit on him, wait on and consider any bids that do come in on merit. The issue of losses is a funny one, we can have a player like Crouch for a few seasons and sell him at a £4m profit. But what about the value to the squad in those seasons? We surely must have made a loss on Cisse, but what about his contributions that were not fantastic, but he did make some? I hear Sunderland won't sign him despite him being their second top scorer and scoring something like 11 goals in 32 appearances which isn't bad for a club like them surviving the drop on the last day.

And if we ever sell Torres, would we rather sell sooner for say a £10m+ profit, or in a few years time at a loss? Would it be a loss? We've got 50 goals out of him in two seasons, I reckon that is worth £10m+ in its own right.

But the bottom line is we should buy the right players at the right price and not worry about losses on players. We can't sell a player for more than is offered, we can be a bit more careful before spending money on players like Babel, Keane and Dossena but what's done is done. For every £4m loss we might make on a Dossena we will make £4m on a Crouch - not including services provided. I guess one flaw in discussions between fans over transfers and profit/loss is we think of a player as a possession more than them as a servant/service - in a way they are both. We pay say £20m for someone's services, they can run their contract down and go elsewhere for nothing, or someone else comes in and offers more or less than £20m to terminate the contract and take their services elsewhere. You could argue Bosman changed player transfers from an ownership to a contracted service.

by **Bosko-Macedonia** » Tue May 26, 2009 1:59 pm

I think that we will made big mistake if we sell Alonso, Babel and Mascherano. For my opinion, we don't need Barry. All we need is to keep Masch and Alonso.
Also, I think that we don't need Lucas too. I don't know why, but I can't see him like big big player in the future. Maybe I'm wrong....
Dossena must be solded. He is overplus here I think.
And also we need to bring top striker who could play alongside Torres, and who can score 20+ goals in one season.
We should see this year how strong and quality is Riera. If he prove himself, we should keep him in 2010 and up

by **7_Kewell** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:02 pm

people are living in a dream world if they think anyone would pay 10 million for Babel.

by **Bosko-Macedonia** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:05 pm

7_Kewell wrote:people are living in a dream world if they think anyone would pay 10 million for Babel.

Well, I think that 6-7 milllion for Babel are enough.

by **bunglemark2** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:11 pm

bigmick wrote:"Losing" money on a player is kind of subjective. "Losing" money on Keane wasn't "bad business" at all, let me explain. Buying him in the first place for 20 million quid was bad business (well absolutely awful business really), getting the best price we could for him given the fact that we obviously didn't want him anymore was not bad business, it was sensible. Failing to bring in a replacement was bad management, there's a difference.

With any player, if you aren't going to play him and it's hard to concieve of a circumstance where he's going to get a game, you may as well sell him on. Sometimes, in a case Like Sinema Pongolle or Sissoko they go on to prove themselves good players, but even that doesn't mean selling them was "bad business". Neither of those two would have got regular starts for Liverpool, so selling them made sense. Keane was an awful buy by Rafa, so selling him made sense. Not bringing in a replacement didn't, as was proven by both Gerrard and Torres getting injured within a week of him leaving. Hopefully that clears that one up for you.

Onto Kuyt I seem to remember you posting up a couple of weeks ago that I'd been wrong on everything. You listed countless examples which proved your point, but unfortunately as per usual you were totally wrong, as I explained at great length (it was a bit long and I know you don't like those, but take it from me I did answer all your "points") . Actually, I shouldn't say "totally" because you were justified in pointing out that I was wrong in saying Kuyt wasn't deserving of a place in the team. I did say last season I'd take 5 million for him, and if anybody had bought him they'd have got good value for money. I certainly wouldn't sell him for that now, I wouldn't listen to any offer below 8 mill such has been his improvement, so you're on the money to point it out.

Lastly, the being "happy" about losing money on a couple of young players. Not unusually for you, you're wrong twice in one sentence. Firstly, Dossena at 27 isn't exactly a kid, and secondly I'm not "happy" that we paid 7 million quid for him given what we know now, nor am I over the moon we paid 11 million for Babel either. that said, we can't go back in time and it seems to me that the longer we keep them, one of two things can happen. Either, they can Kuyt style rise like a ginger headed pheonix from the bargain bin, or their respective values can erode further. Now given that neither is anywhere near the first team, it would seem to me to quite a gamble to refuse realistic offers for either, in the hope that some stirling bench sitting, or a goal or two for the reserves is going to catapult their value into the stratosphere.

If we get some money for them, we haven't "lost" money in the trues sense, as what we've paid for them has already gone, if you get me. Anyways I'll stop now as it's getting a bit long, hope I've cleared it up though.

Mick
Much as I try to resist the temptation to skirt over your posts, I generally read them from start to finish.....and I have to admit, this one raised a chuckle or two.
First off, it's hardly Kuyt's fault he's a "ging-er" (the appropriate pronunciation doesn't come across, of course....) but it's a valid point that we should expect a helluva lot more for him after the season he has just had. Not that he's going anywhere of course.
As for Babel, I haven't seen or read anybody 'kicking the tyres' as it were, since the start of the transfer window last year. And quite frankly, I don't see who would be bothered. In much the same way that I would expect improvement from Lucas (and he has shown signs that he IS getting better), I regularly expect Babel to get better....but he always fails to deliver. So we're stuck with him as far as I can see. And if that's the case, the onus is on the manager to make it a personal crusade to improve Babel. Ditto for Lucas.
Dossena, well thanks for the odd crucial goal, but I don't think you were/are the right kind of player for the next couple of seasons.

by **7_Kewell** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:42 pm

Bosko-Macedonia wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:people are living in a dream world if they think anyone would pay 10 million for Babel.

Well, I think that 6-7 milllion for Babel are enough.

the most i would expect to get would be 4 million with (hopefully) a percentage of his next sale.

I honestly can't see anyone paying more than that.

by **mistyred** » Tue May 26, 2009 2:46 pm

You have got to be kidding

Babel i s young and very talented, other
teams will realise that he will go for a good price.

Just because he might not have made it at Lfc doesn't mean he won't somewhere else.

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