Liverpool FC Forum

by **112-1077774096** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:48 pm

is that a diazapan he is munching on?

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:49 pm

by **112-1077774096** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 pm

oh that old chestnut :sleep

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 4:28 pm

by **banana** » Sun May 24, 2009 12:00 pm

Owzat wrote:
stmichael wrote:
banana wrote:Rush, Aldridge, Hunt, Beardsley, King Kenny, Tosh, Torres

all of those above are great players.

Fowler, on the other hand, never was.

He played for the worst LFC team in the last 30 years in a time when english football sucked. England was never even close to qualifying for wc94 and english clubs were smacked in europe. Fowler never did anything in europe and was far behind players like Les Ferdinand, Ian Wright, Shearer, Sutton, Teddy Sheringham in the picking order for england.

Just making it real.

absolutely clueless

I have to agree, besides anything else the question was about our best striker and FA to do with England. Fowler was never given a (decent) run in the England side because Shearer and Sheringham were our two main strikers, then Owen and Shearer. Despite that he still scored seven goals in 26 appearances which is not bad for an irregular. Sutton and Ferdinand were nothing great for England, Ferdinand played LESS games for England and scored less goals. Not sure where the genius comment about Sutton came from, he played just ONCE for England (didn't he refuse to play a B international or something, or was that someone else?)

Even Ian Wright doesn't have quite the record some might think, he too suffered from the other strikers around during his career including Lineker. He scored 9 goals in 33 apps, not a huge amount better than Fowler's record and he too played when England "was never even close to qualifying for wc94". Plenty of top name strikers in the Premiership never have and never will convert that to success in an England shirt.

I think part of the problem was there was always Shearer and then Owen as 1st choice England striker, and the managers preferred to play a supporting striker like Sheringham and Heskey rather than another striker. You could also blame luck, his peak in seasons 94/95 to 96/97 coincided with Shearer being #1. By the time Shearer retired in 2000 it was Owen to the fore and Fowler was past his peak. I bet with ANY of the other home nations he'd have got 50+ caps and 20+ goals.

Fowler ranks FIFTH on our all time scorers list.

1. 346 goals - Ian Rush
2. 286 goals - Roger Hunt
3. 241 goals - Gordon Hodgson
4. 228 goals - Billy Liddell
5. 183 goals - Robbie Fowler
6. 172 goals - Kenny Dalglish
7. 158 goals - Michael Owen
8. 151 goals - Harry Chambers

Not sure how being in the "worst Liverpool side for 30 years" makes Fowler's record unimpressive, if anything you can argue that makes it even more impressive. Fowler is sixth in the list of Liverpool's top scorers in Europe with 14, wasn't he among our scorers in the UEFA Cup final against Alaves?

And FWIW, Toshack isn't even in the top 15 Liverpool scorers, nor is Beardsley and Torres is scoring fast but neither he nor Aldo are in the top 15 either.

On a side note, I notice Gerrard and Barnes are in the top 15.

Well. Someone has to make it a bit more real. There can be no doubt that english football was the laughing stock of europe when fowler scored his goals. Fowler quickly became surplus to any teams requirement when english football improved. He could not even attract attention from mid table championship teams. Just making it real.

If you are to judge and evaluate players you should try to set things a little bit in perspective. Rush banged goals and won all kinds of throphies not just mickey mouse tournaments. The same thing can be said of Tosh, Beardsley, Hunt, Aldridge and many more. These are the true greats.

Fowler can be compared to Nick Barmby in terms of quality (and also caps/goals/european performance). Just making it real.

My hope is that Torres can win himself a couple of real throphies over the next few years and thereby earn the right to be named among the great.

by **Fowler_E7** » Sun May 24, 2009 1:41 pm

banana wrote:
Owzat wrote:
stmichael wrote:
banana wrote:Rush, Aldridge, Hunt, Beardsley, King Kenny, Tosh, Torres

all of those above are great players.

Fowler, on the other hand, never was.

He played for the worst LFC team in the last 30 years in a time when english football sucked. England was never even close to qualifying for wc94 and english clubs were smacked in europe. Fowler never did anything in europe and was far behind players like Les Ferdinand, Ian Wright, Shearer, Sutton, Teddy Sheringham in the picking order for england.

Just making it real.

absolutely clueless

I have to agree, besides anything else the question was about our best striker and FA to do with England. Fowler was never given a (decent) run in the England side because Shearer and Sheringham were our two main strikers, then Owen and Shearer. Despite that he still scored seven goals in 26 appearances which is not bad for an irregular. Sutton and Ferdinand were nothing great for England, Ferdinand played LESS games for England and scored less goals. Not sure where the genius comment about Sutton came from, he played just ONCE for England (didn't he refuse to play a B international or something, or was that someone else?)

Even Ian Wright doesn't have quite the record some might think, he too suffered from the other strikers around during his career including Lineker. He scored 9 goals in 33 apps, not a huge amount better than Fowler's record and he too played when England "was never even close to qualifying for wc94". Plenty of top name strikers in the Premiership never have and never will convert that to success in an England shirt.

I think part of the problem was there was always Shearer and then Owen as 1st choice England striker, and the managers preferred to play a supporting striker like Sheringham and Heskey rather than another striker. You could also blame luck, his peak in seasons 94/95 to 96/97 coincided with Shearer being #1. By the time Shearer retired in 2000 it was Owen to the fore and Fowler was past his peak. I bet with ANY of the other home nations he'd have got 50+ caps and 20+ goals.

Fowler ranks FIFTH on our all time scorers list.

1. 346 goals - Ian Rush
2. 286 goals - Roger Hunt
3. 241 goals - Gordon Hodgson
4. 228 goals - Billy Liddell
5. 183 goals - Robbie Fowler
6. 172 goals - Kenny Dalglish
7. 158 goals - Michael Owen
8. 151 goals - Harry Chambers

Not sure how being in the "worst Liverpool side for 30 years" makes Fowler's record unimpressive, if anything you can argue that makes it even more impressive. Fowler is sixth in the list of Liverpool's top scorers in Europe with 14, wasn't he among our scorers in the UEFA Cup final against Alaves?

And FWIW, Toshack isn't even in the top 15 Liverpool scorers, nor is Beardsley and Torres is scoring fast but neither he nor Aldo are in the top 15 either.

On a side note, I notice Gerrard and Barnes are in the top 15.

Well. Someone has to make it a bit more real. There can be no doubt that english football was the laughing stock of europe when fowler scored his goals. Fowler quickly became surplus to any teams requirement when english football improved. He could not even attract attention from mid table championship teams. Just making it real.

If you are to judge and evaluate players you should try to set things a little bit in perspective. Rush banged goals and won all kinds of throphies not just mickey mouse tournaments. The same thing can be said of Tosh, Beardsley, Hunt, Aldridge and many more. These are the true greats.

Fowler can be compared to Nick Barmby in terms of quality (and also caps/goals/european performance). Just making it real.

My hope is that Torres can win himself a couple of real throphies over the next few years and thereby earn the right to be named among the great.

well that was the biggest load of rubbish ive ever read

by **Kukilon** » Sun May 24, 2009 7:28 pm

Owen won something this year. RELEGATION! Not that he cares though.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun May 24, 2009 8:43 pm

Sir Roger

by **Octsky** » Tue May 26, 2009 4:15 pm

fowler is a genius. he can scored left right with his head. he is our only pride in the 90's. if GH has sold owen to lazio for 25 mil instead of fowler, fergie would have long retired in the millennium.

by **Bosko-Macedonia** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:30 pm

Well, Fowler and Hush are great and they deserved to be in the top of this poll.....
But I can not understand why Owen has only 4 votes up till now?

by **GYBS** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:49 am

Because of the way Owen left it will always leave a bad taste with the majority of fans , and owens heart was always with himself as opposed to other players whose heart was with the club .

by **Owzat** » Wed May 27, 2009 2:10 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:
banana wrote:If you are to judge and evaluate players you should try to set things a little bit in perspective. Rush banged goals and won all kinds of throphies not just mickey mouse tournaments. The same thing can be said of Tosh, Beardsley, Hunt, Aldridge and many more. These are the true greats.

Fowler can be compared to Nick Barmby in terms of quality (and also caps/goals/european performance). Just making it real.

My hope is that Torres can win himself a couple of real throphies over the next few years and thereby earn the right to be named among the great.

well that was the biggest load of rubbish ive ever read

I love the logic, players can only be great if they win big trophies even if they are playing among rubbish players. It is a TEAM game, Fowler can't be blamed for Liverpool not winning the league as he is only ONE player in XI. He could hardly win the European Cup since you had to win the league to qualify until recent years.

Fowler had what around him? James, Redknapp, Babb, Bjornebye, Harkness, McAteer, McManaman, Ruddock, Thomas and Scales at his pomp. The reason we didn't win the league was not because Fowler wasn't great, but because that team contained a load of rubbish. Yet he scored 25 goals in the league in 94/95, 28 in 95/96 and 18 in 96/97 - funny how Torres is playing in a better side and scored only 24 league goals in 07/08, I guess he must be rubbish too because he hasn't won the league or European Cup.

Rush had the likes of Molby, Dalglish, Nicol, Hansen, Lawrenson, McMahon, Whelan, Grobbelaar, Barnes, Beardsley, Gillespie, Staunton, Houghton etc when he won league titles. Was he a better striker or playing in a vastly superior team? Definitely the latter, the former is debatable as it is hard to compare players when in such very different sides

Bottom line is you can't judge a player by the team he's in or the trophies he's won. That's like suggesting drivers that don't win the F1 championship are no good when they are driving vastly inferior cars for low budget teams. Was Jensen Button rubbish until this season or was it the car that suddenly brought him to the fore......................? Was World Champion Damon Hill great when he won the title and suddenly became rubbish when he drove for the Arrows (?) team? Fowler and Rush were the drivers, the players around them the car and F1 team.

Rush never reached the World Cup finals, doesn't make him a bad player. The scots never got past the 1st round of finals, doesn't make Hansen, Dalglish or Souness less great players.

If Torres never does win the Premiership or European Cup that won't stop him being a great. He needs more goals, but the difference between him being a good player and great player is not dependant on what trophies he does or doesn't win.

I've hammered that point, I bet banana sticks by his deluded bunkum

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