Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:26 pm

I like that Sig clip of Torres vs. United mate.....real class...

by **Judge** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:29 pm

GYBS wrote:Ok sorry mick - 70 mil to add to the millions already spent the season before him ,

spending is the nature of football now gybs

spend last year, spend this year, it doesnt matter, as we have to spend year in year out until we have a winning league formula, then slow down and buy the odd one or so

thats what scum do now

by **ConnO'var** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:31 pm

GYBS wrote:maybe it took the 5 seasons to get the right players and the right mix into the team - as you say mick someone was able to spend big money in one season to get the players he wanted to play the way he wanted where as our manager has had to take time to build it up . It doesnt happen over night if you cant fork out 100 odd million in one summer

And conn - are you talking about bringing kenny back as manager ? is that not a step backwards ?

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of a man who let the stress of Hillsborough result in him walking out on the job all those years ago.... then I suppose you could say that it's a step backwards.

If you look at it from the standpoint that he was the manager to take us to our 1st ever double in his 1st season as manager, the man who won 3 First division titles for us in his 5 years in charge, the man who won 3 manager of the year awards under our banner, only the 3rd man to have won the premiership with 2 different clubs AND most importantly.... the man who behaved most humbly, passionately and compassionately post the the tragedy that is Hillsborough..... then it would be hard to say that it's a step backward.

The man has been an impeccable servant of the club both as a player and a manager.... knows the Liverpool way...

Who better to bring us back to the path of glory?

by **aCe'** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:32 pm

good post Bob.... good stuff on this thread...

by **stmichael** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:33 pm

bigmick wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:maybe it took the 5 seasons to get the right players and the right mix into the team - as you say mick someone was able to spend big money in one season to get the players he wanted to play the way he wanted where as our manager has had to take time to build it up . It doesnt happen over night if you cant fork out 100 odd million in one summer

And conn - are you talking about bringing kenny back as manager ? is that not a step backwards ?

Look it's not a tit for tat point. "Maybe he did this, and maybe he did that". I'm simply making the point nthat it would have been a bonus had there been some realisation that mass rotation and a fairly negative set-up weren't the way to go a fairly long time before now.

I made the point about the other bloke simply because by contrast, he came in and sussed out pretty quickly what was needed. Neither did he spend 100 million quid in one Summer, and to be perfectly honest constantly making such claims whenever such a thing is discussed gets kind of boring.

At the end of the day, it's nothing to do with taking time to get the players in place. We had the players in place LAST season, and we were out of the title race after ten matches. We made 75 changes to the first team in the first 15 games or whatever the feck the numbers were, so spending 100 million quid and the like are an irrelevence.

as i've said many times, I'm really glad we're now on the right track. Rafa has said himself that we have reduced the rotation significantly this season, and only a fool would deny we have begun to play much more attacking in the second half of this season. The point is quite simply that it would have been lovely had we made the conversion earlier, that's all.

do you think our squad is as strong as the mancs', bigmick?

No I don't. I've never at any stage said our squad is a strong as the Mancs mate, although the gap isn't as big as the silly c...s in the press would have you believe.

The keepers are close, as are their replacements (I prefer Reina, but I prefer their back up).

The right backs (first choice) are very close, but we don't really have a back up so they shade that. Their centre halves are better than ours, but I think our back ups are better than theirs. The left back is marginally better than ours, and the back ups similar.

At the right hand side of midfield I do think Ronaldo is a better player than Kuyt (although there are some Kuyt-hawks who will deny that no doubt), whilst I think Park Jee Song is probably on about a par with Yossi, although a different tuype of player.

I think Masherano, Alonso and Gerrard are all better than any of their central midfielders now Scholes has declined somewhat, while I think Riera is the equal of any of their left midfielders unless Ronney plays there, in which case he obviously isn't. Babel is probably the equivalent of some young bloke they've got who is on the fringe of the first team.

Up top, Torres is obviously better than any of theirs, as is Gerrard. N'Gog wouldn't get a game in their reserves though, so the fact they have Tevez and Berbatov who can be replaced by either Ronaldo or Rooney gives them the edge. The young Italian kid is inconsequential.

What we've learnt this season though, is if you haven't got the players to change the team five times per match, don't do it then. All this nonsense about resting blokes willy nilly has been categorically proven to be total b0ll0cks. As I've said many times, it's akin to knocking high ball after high ball to Michael Owen then saying when you never keep the ball, "ah but it would work if we had Crouch". If you haven't got Crouch or similar, don't knock high balls then. If you haven't got as strong a squad as the Mancs, don't make as many changes as them.

It all seems pretty simple to me, quite why it's taken us five seasons to get our heads around it will remain a mystery to me till my dying day.

The differnce is, it's easy to be smart with your money when you can spend 70m on fillers, whilst also spending 30m on Ferdinand, 30m on Rooney, 32m on Berbatov, 28m on Veron, 10 on Tevez just for two year loan. Thats 130m on 5 players and just when we start to spend 20m on a couple of players, United are looking likely to go and spend a ridiculous amount on Ribery, 40m ?

It does Rafa no favours to keep raising the money issue, but by the same token, it does others no favours to continually dismiss it. 4 years ago we wanted investment because we wanted new owners to help us compete on an even financial footing with United and Chelsea, through a new stadium and deeper pockets. 90% of LFC fans recognised and supported this. That we have now ended up with two old American duffers and United have continued in the ascendency is not Rafas fault and people should be reminded where we were 4 years ago and what we wanted then.

Its not the be all and end all, but over time, the team with the better players, which invariably are those with more money, will be the more consistent and win more trophies. Sickening, but the truth.

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:39 pm

yes very true but imagine being able to buy the exact player you want and not worry about how much it would cost !! that exactly what happened when abramovich arrived - he could buy anyone he wanted - if the club rejected the bid then they just offered more - it happened with drogba it happened with essien. Their money talked - we have bought three players 15 mil - masher - torres and keane - they bought three that season when he first arrived then added even more . Yes he did well with them but he wouldnt of won the league if it wasnt for the money - in fact i bet maureen wouldnt of even gone their in the first place if they didnt have abramoviches money .

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:41 pm

ConnO'var wrote:
GYBS wrote:maybe it took the 5 seasons to get the right players and the right mix into the team - as you say mick someone was able to spend big money in one season to get the players he wanted to play the way he wanted where as our manager has had to take time to build it up . It doesnt happen over night if you cant fork out 100 odd million in one summer

And conn - are you talking about bringing kenny back as manager ? is that not a step backwards ?

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of a man who let the stress of Hillsborough result in him walking out on the job all those years ago.... then I suppose you could say that it's a step backwards.

If you look at it from the standpoint that he was the manager to take us to our 1st ever double in his 1st season as manager, the man who won 3 First division titles for us in his 5 years in charge, the man who won 3 manager of the year awards under our banner, only the 3rd man to have won the premiership with 2 different clubs AND most importantly.... the man who behaved most humbly, passionately and compassionately post the the tragedy that is Hillsborough..... then it would be hard to say that it's a step backward.

The man has been an impeccable servant of the club both as a player and a manager.... knows the Liverpool way...

Who better to bring us back to the path of glory?

A manager who hasnt been in the game for 14 years now is it - yes he did wonders for us late 80s but the game has moved on so much now and we cant let sentiment get in the way of sound judgement - thats what newcastle do with a returning keegan . Kenny had a lot of help when he took over and also had a great squad to build from .

by **lakes10** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:49 pm

GYBS wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:
GYBS wrote:maybe it took the 5 seasons to get the right players and the right mix into the team - as you say mick someone was able to spend big money in one season to get the players he wanted to play the way he wanted where as our manager has had to take time to build it up . It doesnt happen over night if you cant fork out 100 odd million in one summer

And conn - are you talking about bringing kenny back as manager ? is that not a step backwards ?

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of a man who let the stress of Hillsborough result in him walking out on the job all those years ago.... then I suppose you could say that it's a step backwards.

If you look at it from the standpoint that he was the manager to take us to our 1st ever double in his 1st season as manager, the man who won 3 First division titles for us in his 5 years in charge, the man who won 3 manager of the year awards under our banner, only the 3rd man to have won the premiership with 2 different clubs AND most importantly.... the man who behaved most humbly, passionately and compassionately post the the tragedy that is Hillsborough..... then it would be hard to say that it's a step backward.

The man has been an impeccable servant of the club both as a player and a manager.... knows the Liverpool way...

Who better to bring us back to the path of glory?

A manager who hasnt been in the game for 14 years now is it - yes he did wonders for us late 80s but the game has moved on so much now and we cant let sentiment get in the way of sound judgement - thats what newcastle do with a returning keegan . Kenny had a lot of help when he took over and also had a great squad to build from .

I would love to See Kenny back as our Manager but as you say 14 years is a very long time.

I could not see how it could happen, the way Rafa has built this team is almost the opposite to how Kenny would have done it, he would almost have to sell all the players and start again.

The Way Rafa has built this team will work but there is a problem, its the mind set of the players, "you cant do that we are Liverpool" the same way we got knocked out the FA cup a few years ago.

I dont always like the way Rafa set us up to play but he teands to get it right when we play the big teams, the problem with this way is that smaller teams often think, oh well what do we have to lose and end up giving us a shock, they dont always have a game plan and that hard to play against when you set up the way Rafa sets up.

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 2:52 pm

Where does this insight of the mindset of the players come from ? have people asked the players what rafa is putting in their minds ? it doesnt seem to of effecting them in an offensive way with us have the best goal difference in the league .

by **ConnO'var** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:10 pm

GYBS wrote:
ConnO'var wrote:
GYBS wrote:maybe it took the 5 seasons to get the right players and the right mix into the team - as you say mick someone was able to spend big money in one season to get the players he wanted to play the way he wanted where as our manager has had to take time to build it up . It doesnt happen over night if you cant fork out 100 odd million in one summer

And conn - are you talking about bringing kenny back as manager ? is that not a step backwards ?

It depends on how you look at it.

If you look at it from the standpoint of a man who let the stress of Hillsborough result in him walking out on the job all those years ago.... then I suppose you could say that it's a step backwards.

If you look at it from the standpoint that he was the manager to take us to our 1st ever double in his 1st season as manager, the man who won 3 First division titles for us in his 5 years in charge, the man who won 3 manager of the year awards under our banner, only the 3rd man to have won the premiership with 2 different clubs AND most importantly.... the man who behaved most humbly, passionately and compassionately post the the tragedy that is Hillsborough..... then it would be hard to say that it's a step backward.

The man has been an impeccable servant of the club both as a player and a manager.... knows the Liverpool way...

Who better to bring us back to the path of glory?

A manager who hasnt been in the game for 14 years now is it - yes he did wonders for us late 80s but the game has moved on so much now and we cant let sentiment get in the way of sound judgement - thats what newcastle do with a returning keegan . Kenny had a lot of help when he took over and also had a great squad to build from .

Indeed.... sentiment is oft a poor substitute for judgement.

Suffice to say I disagree with you on the 14 year thing... and the Keegan example is imo... an inappropriate one. The club was in disarray and has been in that state for years.... Even the Pope would have had trouble in getting them out of the hell they created.

Left a great team?.... True enough.... he also rebuilt said team to continue our success.... and he built a championship winning side at Blackburn from scratch.

by **aCe'** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:12 pm

GYBS wrote:Where does this insight of the mindset of the players come from ? have people asked the players what rafa is putting in their minds ? it doesnt seem to of effecting them in an offensive way with us have the best goal difference in the league .

thats exactly what ruins threads mate... when you start asking daft questions that do little to contribute to the discussion and just end up annoying people ... thats his take on things and hes entitled to it... you think otherwise then state that in a less smarta$sish way...

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:12 pm

When did he last manage for anyone ? was it not 1995 for Blackburn ?

Also the winning team he built at blackburn was helped with the millions he was able to fork out at the time buying a lot of players for a lot of money .

The times of kenny as a manager are long gone im afraid .

by **GYBS** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:13 pm

aCe' wrote:
GYBS wrote:Where does this insight of the mindset of the players come from ? have people asked the players what rafa is putting in their minds ? it doesnt seem to of effecting them in an offensive way with us have the best goal difference in the league .

thats exactly what ruins threads mate... when you start asking daft questions that do little to contribute to the discussion and just end up annoying people ... thats his take on things and hes entitled to it... you think otherwise then state that in a less smarta$sish way...

Ill post how i see fit thank you - your little attack has nothing to do with the thread so i suggest before making statment have a little look at oyurself in the mirror first .

by **ConnO'var** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:16 pm

GYBS wrote:......it doesnt seem to of effecting them in an offensive way with us have the best goal difference in the league .

Excellent point.... best goal difference, least losses.... all absolutely brilliant. Blinding in fact.

So much so that they conceal that we've won nothing in the last 2 years and that we are the only club to not win the premiership when we've only lost 2 games all season...

Blinding indeed..

by **lakes10** » Fri May 22, 2009 3:19 pm

GYBS wrote:Where does this insight of the mindset of the players come from ? have people asked the players what rafa is putting in their minds ? it doesnt seem to of effecting them in an offensive way with us have the best goal difference in the league .

To be fair its not just us that has this problem, its all the top 4.

ego's, I am better that playing you

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