Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:43 pm

stmichael wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
stmichael wrote:
DrPepe wrote:For someone who causes "our attacks to lose momentum" he 's doing fantastic - i would say Riera, for all his silky touch, is far far less effective than our dirk.

Word.

How many goals has Riera made this season?

5

3 PL bolton, villa, wigan
1 FAC PNE
1 CL PSV

I said "made" not scored.

Off the top of my head Kuyt against Chelsea and Torres' 2nd against Arsenal. I can't remember a lot more than that. His final ball is so frustrating at times.

At the end of the day the game is about scoring goals, more than the opposition helps, and having someone who is a great dribbler, can beat his man and can cross is no bleeding good if there is nothing to show for all his ability.

All footballers can have a poor first touch, perhaps it's just that Kuyt has done it once too often and now is permanantly tagged even though he may be only a bit more culpable than others and more than makes amends in other ways. I've seen Gerrard charge with the ball too many times and lose it, I doubt many would talk about replacing him. And how often do he and Alonso waste set-pieces? It's a weakness for Kuyt, one he can work on, but isn't it about time Riera, Alonso, Mascherano, Arbeloa and a lot of the others worked hard on their weaknesses? Worst happens when Kuyt loses the ball is we have to defend and win it back, he tends to lose it in areas not directly endangering our goal - and we quite often regain possession fairly soon after.

by **Sabre** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:48 pm

DrPepe wrote:
bigmick wrote:
DrPepe wrote:i did start to look around for pass completion rate and/or number of passes for individuals in our team and the rest of the PL - that would be useful in this kind of discussion

Why would it be useful? I personally think you might as well talk about the number of keepy uppies someone does in warm up.

Pass completion. So a bloke who gets the ball and squares it fifteen yards every time gets 100%, whereas a bloke who tries to play people in manages it two out of five gets 40% and it proves what?

You can't judge a footballer by paying too much attention to such nonsense.

fair enough.

from what i see of Dirk, he doesn't give the ball away excessively and doesn't have a poor first touch

i won't back that up with anything solid , cos facts are just nonsense

Except for goals.... oh, and assists. And red/yellow cards. And fouls, wins , draws....

Dr Pepe, Kuyt's first touch is poor.

Kuyt does give assists. When he reaches the bottom line, he often chooses a good option, like crossing it backwards where it makes harm. Meaning, of course he has to do some things right in order to assist his team mates. But his controls... his controls is what he lacks first and mostly to be a preffered choice in the starting eleven.

by **DrPepe** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:55 pm

Sabre wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
bigmick wrote:
DrPepe wrote:i did start to look around for pass completion rate and/or number of passes for individuals in our team and the rest of the PL - that would be useful in this kind of discussion

Why would it be useful? I personally think you might as well talk about the number of keepy uppies someone does in warm up.

Pass completion. So a bloke who gets the ball and squares it fifteen yards every time gets 100%, whereas a bloke who tries to play people in manages it two out of five gets 40% and it proves what?

You can't judge a footballer by paying too much attention to such nonsense.

fair enough.

from what i see of Dirk, he doesn't give the ball away excessively and doesn't have a poor first touch

i won't back that up with anything solid , cos facts are just nonsense

Except for goals.... oh, and assists. And red/yellow cards. And fouls, wins , draws....

Dr Pepe, Kuyt's first touch is poor.

Kuyt does give assists. When he reaches the bottom line, he often chooses a good option, like crossing it backwards where it makes harm. Meaning, of course he has to do some things right in order to assist his team mates. But his controls... his controls is what he lacks first and mostly to be a preffered choice in the starting eleven.

Sabre, that line

from what i see of Dirk, he doesn't give the ball away excessively and doesn't have a poor first touch

was a little sarcastic!

we all know his touch isn't his best quality.

However if his touch was consistently WC (and i believe the only player we have in that category is alonso) wewould have a 20-25m player on our hands and not a <10m player!

by **Sabre** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:05 pm

My bad Dr Pepe. I failed to see the sarcasm this time, in my defence I have to say I was preparing the beans, and I was reading too quicky.

. Sorry.

However if his touch was consistently WC (and i believe the only player we have in that category is alonso) wewould have a 20-25m player on our hands and not a <10m player!

True. And if you added to that a flexible waist instead the iron waist he has, he could dribble aswell, and become a 40M player.

But He is as you say a 9-10M player. That said, I like having him.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:06 pm

DrPepe wrote:
stmichael wrote:
DrPepe wrote:
stmichael wrote:
DrPepe wrote:For someone who causes "our attacks to lose momentum" he 's doing fantastic - i would say Riera, for all his silky touch, is far far less effective than our dirk.

Word.

How many goals has Riera made this season?

5

3 PL bolton, villa, wigan
1 FAC PNE
1 CL PSV

I said "made" not scored.

Off the top of my head Kuyt against Chelsea and Torres' 2nd against Arsenal. I can't remember a lot more than that. His final ball is so frustrating at times.

- i misread your post

3 goals , 4 assists in the PL according to my fantasy football website

Riera's stats...

5 Goals:
(1) vs. Wigan
(2) vs. PSV
(3) vs. Bolton
(4) vs. Preston NE
(5) vs. AV

4 Assists:
(1) to Gerrard vs. Blackburn
(2) to Gerrard vs. Everton
(3) to Kuyt vs. Chelsea in CL
(4) to Torres vs. Arsenal in EPL

BTW, all this info can be found in HERE. I don't do this for my health, you know, so have a look you peasants! (Sorry, had a little Judge moment there.

)

by **redbeergoggles** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:43 pm

Lets start by dispelling the most popular myths surrounding Kuyt ,his first touch while not being exemplary is adequate enough ,this when weighed up against the fact, that he always finds space to exploit defenders, and bring strikers into play ,the latter wins hands down .
Then we have the second point Kuyts not a Striker ,No ! well he's suprised the hell out of me because without him Liverpool wouldnt be up Uniteds so-called Imperious @rse .
The one greatest attribute he brings to this team is his commitment ,and believe it or not his speed of thought, Kuyt is rarely extolled for his ingenuity, and watching him on that field ,Ive no reservations the fella's heart is Scouse ....
I know Kuyt will always have his dissenters, but he epitomizes the spirit that Liverpool Football Club exists for ,and while he is at this club ,I will be safe in the comfort that its not just Scousers who would run through the proverbial brick wall for this great club of ours ........

by **Zidane** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:47 pm

I liked him in his first season and he seems to be back to that level of play I guess last season the problems he had really affected him so hopefully that's all in the past and he can contribute like this every season.

by **supersub** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:48 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:Lets start by dispelling the most popular myths surrounding Kuyt ,his first touch while not being exemplary is adequate enough ,this when weighed up against the fact, that he always finds space to exploit defenders, and bring strikers into play ,the latter wins hands down .
Then we have the second point Kuyts not a Striker ,No ! well he's suprised the hell out of me because without him Liverpool wouldnt be up Uniteds so-called Imperious @rse .
The one greatest attribute he brings to this team is his commitment ,and believe it or not his speed of thought, Kuyt is rarely extolled for his ingenuity, and watching him on that field ,Ive no reservations the fella's heart is Scouse ....
I know Kuyt will always have his dissenters, but he epitomizes the spirit that Liverpool Football Club exists for ,and while he is at this club ,I will be safe in the comfort that its not just Scousers who would run through the proverbial brick wall for this great club of ours ........

Exactly.......

by **supersub** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:13 pm

DrPepe wrote:
bigmick wrote:
GYBS wrote:i guess it would be useful cause people talk about him giving the ball away a lot ?

And so he does, which is why you can dilude yourself when looking at stats. He gives the ball away usually by miscontrolling it, not by passing it to the wrong colour shirt. He also causes our attacks to lose momentum on occasions by having to turn back on himself through poor control. Neither of those things will show up on stats, infact in the second instance as long as he lays it back to Arbeloa, he will rack up another completed pass for the stats boys.

Look I think he has done well and has improved massively. I made the point in my posts earlier before the good doctor came in with his nonsense.

i don't want to cast aspersions on your judgement, but simply pronouncing that a player has a cr ap touch simply isn't good enough...

For someone who causes "our attacks to lose momentum" he 's doing fantastic - i would say Riera, for all his silky touch, is far far less effective than our dirk.

First touch ain't everything, and when you're looking for something to criticise a player for it's the easy option for people to pick up on
you may have seen him lose the ball plenty of times, but i've seen Torres & our Great Leader do that plenty of times too. It seems that all our quality attacking players have a poor touch

But in some peoples eyes, usually hundreds or thousands of miles away, Torres and Gerrard can do nothing wrong.

by **GYBS** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:22 pm

spot on both rbg and ss .

by **supersub** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:32 pm

There are things that fully endorse why being in the ground watching the game and observing the play without prejudice, is better than getting your views and opinions from the gogglebox.....Dirk Kuyt's performances on the pitch is just one of those things....

Steven Gerrards "can hit a ball forty yards" completion rate pales into insignificance by Xabi Alonso's passing prowess.

by **Fowler_E7** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:58 pm

typical of Kuyt, every season he finishes strongly so most people forget about the complete toilet he produces earlier in the season. The guy has been excellent recently and deserves his pludits but lots of Liverpool fans have been coming out with ridiculous statements like "best winger in the league after Ronaldo" and " One of our best players this season". Dirk Kuyt is a decent footballer player, nothing more nothing less, i would say he is worth a squad place, but i personally think it is key to our development as a team that he is replaced with a better quality player as quickly as possible.

by **Madmax** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:10 pm

aye... He stared off shyte and just got gradually better.. Slow process but his getting there..

Agree with you though would prefer better replacement. Will see what happens in the summer.. All about the funds!!

by **DrPepe** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:18 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:typical of Kuyt, every season he finishes strongly so most people forget about the complete toilet he produces earlier in the season. The guy has been excellent recently and deserves his pludits but lots of Liverpool fans have been coming out with ridiculous statements like "best winger in the league after Ronaldo" and " One of best players this season". Dirk Kuyt is a decent footballer player, nothing more nothing less, i would say he is worth a squad place, but i would say it iskey to our development as a team that he is replaced with a better quality player as quickly as possible.

He didn't really have poor form earlier in the season after all he scored extremely important winners against Standard Liege (getting us into the CL), Man City, Wigan to name 3... that's out of 7 goals before xmas.

He did go through a barren spell in December and January - perhaps that highlights how important he is to us, as we had an awful run of form in that period

by **GYBS** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:19 pm

when did he start off shyte ? he was one of the players at the beginning of the season who was scoring goals - he had a poor peroid over jan when the whole of the team was playing poor as well . who is the better replacements that will produce more for us ? Yes fowler he has been one of our best players this season and it wouldnt surprise me if the other players vote him as their player of the season .

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