Liverpool FC Forum

Kopite-Jud wrote:Why was skrtl on the bench ? ?

Cos he got no pace.

I thought it was clear reasoning. 

LegBarnes wrote:

Kopite-Jud wrote:Why was skrtl on the bench ? ?

Cos he got no pace.

I thought it was clear reasoning. 

would have played skrtl 

Bad Bob wrote:

bigmick wrote:Well in truth we've played against three good teams over the last couple of weeks (Chelsea twice and Arsenal once) and we've conceded eleven goals so clearly something is going on. I think there are probably a couple of reasons which spring to mind for us suddenly becoming a bit leaky, but it's hard to really nail it down to one cause as in truth it's a collection of things.

Firstly there the first leg of the Champions League where we ran into a bit of a tactical swerve from Hiddink which got round our zonal system, some fairly average defending in those situations, and Drogba/Chelsea on a very good night. I think that Ivanovic aside, they would have caused pretty much anyone a problem that night.

In the second leg, we were pressing on trying to do the impossible and got picked off. We were going at it kamikazi but in truth we didn't have a deal of choice. I don't think FWIW there was anything you could conclude from that game, it was kind of a one off.

That said, the 4-4 one off was followed incredibly by another 4-4. On this occasion, we were undone by individual errors, a good player and once again a pretty gung ho performance.

If I were to summarise the three performances and the problems contained within, I'd be looking at our tendency to get a bit carried away mid match once we hit the front. It's an interesting thought that we led in all three matches but didn't manage to win any of them. Against Chelsea at Home we got the vital goal early but in truth never really looked like we'd keep a clean sheet. In the return leg once they made the much needed tactical changes they turned a 2-0 deficit into a 3-2 lead fairly quick smart. Against Arsenal once we'd overturned the opening goal we didn't manage to keep the game quiet even for a short time.

I think what we are seeing is a result of a team which in truth has been overly defensive (and I know somebody will quote how many goals we've scored but that won't change my opinion) changing into one which is absolutely at the opposite end of the scale. We've gone from playing two holding midfielders to a situation where both Alonso and Masherano are bombing on, Riera isn't bothering to track back, whoever is filling in for Gerrard isn't bothering to come back, and both Aurelio and Arbeoa look likely to score at any moment. It's fantastic to watch and IMHO long overdue, but we need to get a bit more balance to the whole thing I think.

Just because we need to win, it shouldn't mean we need to win 6-3. 1-0 will do just fine thanks, just like at Stamford Bridge once we had gone 2-0 up we should have been sitting. Keep it tight and 2-0 until 15 minutes from the end, then go for the winner which of course another goal would have been. Likewise against Arsenal, get in front and settle down. Defend properly, wake up, keep your wits about you, keep it tight and pick them off. Instead we get caught dawdling on the ball and with an admittedly World Class finish it's 2-2.

I don't blame the manager for the slide, he's probably tearing out whatever hair he's got left worrying about it. It's probably though the inevitable consequence of a sudden change of style for the team, and the fact that we simply aren't used to it. Our central defenders, indeed all the defence are actually being asked to defend without a blanket in front of them and unfortunately so far they aren't coping. That's why the Mancs are able to bomb on from all directions, they have Ferdinand and Vidic ho they can trust to defend. If we are going to play this more expansive style, we might need to look at picking up at least one top class defender, unfortunately it's looking like we are a wee bit short in that area.

Oh come on Mick!  No need to actually analyze the situation and come up with a reasoned and highly nuanced account of a complex and multi-faceted set of events.  Much easier just to work with simple maths and even more simplistic assumptions.  We've conceded 8 in 2 games...it MUST be the keeper's fault.  Oh, and Rafa's of course--he (the manager who practically invented the phrase keep it tight at the back and nick a goal) needs to "learn" how to slow the game down and protect a lead. 


Seriously, it's a good post and one that I hope certain knee-jerkers take a close look at.  I agree that the collective impetus in the last few games has been to go at things hammer and tongs to get back into the tie (in the case of Chelsea) or to overturn an unexpected deficit (in the case of Arsenal).  We've managed to do so brilliantly but, once the adrenalin's been pumping, we've had a hell of a time slamming the breaks on the thing, putting our foot on the ball and shutting up shop.  It looked like we were starting to reign things in a little last night just before Arshavin's second but that goal of course put a spanner in the works and forced us to rev things back up again.  I'm sure Rafa was absolutely apoplectic on the sideline because he'll have wanted to see much more composure than that from the lads.  Still, it's been an exciting ride though not for the faint of heart!

whatever mate... Rafa SHOULD have told the players to slow it down.. now im not sure if he did it or not against Arsenal last night but the Chelsea game where we went to the break at 2-0 up , he most certainly should have handled the half time team talk better imo...

anyways thats besides the point... 8 goals in 2 games ... agree with mick mostly but i also think the players looked pretty tired towards the last 15 mins last night.. especially the back line and Mascherano and Alonso ... Dont know why Kuyt was taken off but it was probably because he didnt have much left on the tank and we needed to exploit their left back (Gibbs was it?) and try to force the issue down the right flank... he had a horrible game and with better quality down the right we could have made them pay for it even more so than we did...

Arsenal game.. was mostly individual errors... wouldnt blame Reina for the 4 goals but i think he could have done a little more to atleast try and stop 1 or 2 of the goals.. didnt have the best of games and i stand by what iv been saying for some time now that hes overrated by our own... the system we play and how we setup are the main reason we concede so few in general and as soon as we tried changing things a bit we start conceding double figures in 2 weeks...

Its not Benitez's way playing the style and attacking football we are at the moment, and i wouldnt expect us to start next season the way we'r ending this one... as entertaining as the football seems to be, id expect us to go back to the more conservative style we are best known for... score few and try not to concede..etc etc.. major plus for me is that now we know we can attack and go for the more open approach if need be... we have it in us and its a shame we havent used it more often...

GYBS wrote:i have no idea what he told so im pretty sure you dont have the first clue what he told them as well , so i find it hard to see how you can critise what rafa says to the players at half time or during the game because you havent got a clue what he says

LegBarnes wrote:Yeah come on lets not get into dreaming up what others think stick to the facts of what they post.

IF you still don't understand then leave it cos people don't like to explain things more then once.

thats just laughable coming from you it really is .