LIVERPOOL VS CHELSEA - 7.45 wed 8th april 2009

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Madmax » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:52 pm

People talking gonads here... fecking shyte happens we had an off day get the feck over it man.. Cant understand people still moaning and groaning blaming rafa etc... Anyhow feck all this and input some good stuff at the vs blackburn thread... this should be locked now!!!
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Postby Sir Roger » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:01 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Fickle?
How can we beat chelsea twice with the same group of players and then get whacked like that?
Chelsea didnt play fantastic. We played :censored:. To a man.
Rafa got it wrong. Simple. Some would have you believe he has no influence at all and the game just pans itself out.
Wrong!
He calls the shots and pulls the strings. He made a bloomer last night and we would all be better off accepting that and moving on. Hopefully he has learned and will set things right for the second leg.
If not expect much of the same

Okay, say you're Rafa and it's an hour before kick off last night.  How would you set us up?  Again, say you're Rafa and the game's panning out how we see it unfold last night.  What would you change?  I'm still struggling to see what could have been done much differently.  IMO, he picked pretty much the best available lineup and employed the same tactics that have been so successful for us of late.  We grabbed the early goal that we would have been hoping for but, from there, the wheels slowly came off through a series of errors from players who, up until last night, had been fit and firing on all cylinders.  So, yeah, I struggle to see how last night was primarily down to Rafa besides in the generic sense that the buck always stops with the manager when players fail to perform.

Rafa and his staff tell us constantly how he analyses everything and prepares specifically for each individual game. Maybe he got the players heads, i.e. preparation wrong? It started off well and then as you said the wheels started coming off so there was little he could do. Maybe at half time change things?
But as Ive said before you can usually set your watch to his substitutions.
Maybe I would have changed things earlier. Riera for example and Aurellio. Both terrible. Lucas. He might not have started. Ifs and buts. Not just his fault.
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Postby zarababe » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:03 pm

Sir Roger wrote:Fickle?
How can we beat chelsea twice with the same group of players and then get whacked like that?
Chelsea didnt play fantastic. We played :censored:. To a man.
Rafa got it wrong. Simple. Some would have you believe he has no influence at all and the game just pans itself out.
Wrong!
He calls the shots and pulls the strings. He made a bloomer last night and we would all be better off accepting that and moving on. Hopefully he has learned and will set things right for the second leg.
If not expect much of the same

Yep - fickle.. ppl like you who can't wait to see failure, .. funny how 'you lot' have been notably absent with praise for how well the team has been playing of late..  we didn't play well for the majority of the game; Gerrard was not fully fit, Mash our lynch pin, absent and towrads the end, the team looked tired..  so we pick our selves up and get on with it ......  as all good footballing teams do .. SIR  !
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Postby Emerald Red » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:12 pm

I've made one post in this thread. In fact, I've not been bolloxed to even go near it or read it. You just know sh*t will be flying everywhere from the usual suspects.

Fact is, we were sh*t last night all over the pitch. Chelsea have quality, probably more so than us, and it told. Fact is, you play poor against class opposition and you get punished. Our mistakes were schoolboy, and some of those have persisted all season with set pieces. It seems to be our Achilles Heel. F*ck the debate about Zonal Marking. It's just another stick to beat the manager with and it's total bollox. It's a system, and all systems have their pro's and con's. Fact is - and I keep using that term as a point opener - is that some of our players have to take the responsibility for giving away two goals that effectively had the proverbial effect of kicking us in the bollox. Ball watching. Schoolboy stuff.

Sometimes you just have to throw your hands up and say well done to the opposition. I'm sure even they were pinching themselves and their good fortune, and asking themselves "would the real Liverpool please stand up!". What hurts most is not the defeat, but the manner of which it came about. We are far better than that. We let ourselves down.
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Postby Kash_Mountain » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:25 pm

I'm very disappointed by the result. No Liverpool FC player had a good game yesterday. Basically it was an of day all round.  Haven't we been here before..... of course we have.  Rafa IMO put out the strongest team he could have possibly fielded. I don't think he could have really done anything else.  As some people have said (at work), it was the Essien effect. Cheaski seem to play better when hes around. He did  good job on our Gerrard ((bars**d)   

As for plan B, yes I agree, there wasn't one. In time (better be soon rather then any time later) Rafa will realise that he needs Plan B and C and D. 

Rafa was tactically out done by Hiddink. Next time though, it'll be the other way round.  Onto next Tuesday, I can see this one starting at the speed of light. This won't be Istanbul heroics, this I feel will be much different.  I see Liverpool FC going the whole game with such fierce intensity never seen before.
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Postby Number 9 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:30 pm

Bottom line is Chelsea were freakishly good last night going by their recent form..and we were well below our usual form of late!
When two teams meet and this is the case,theres only one outcome!

I have to laugh at all the idiots blaming zonal marking.Zonal marking has given us one of the best defensive records in the League season after season since Rafa arrived!So that arguement is just bollox..Two many on here listening to Andy Gray rather than looking at the facts!
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Postby SupitsJonF » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:32 pm

It's a completely different game when Essien on the pitch, Gerrard was completely shut down and kept quiet.  Maybe it was because he was injured, but Essien played fantastic I thought.
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Postby The Good Yank » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:33 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Fickle?
How can we beat chelsea twice with the same group of players and then get whacked like that?
Chelsea didnt play fantastic. We played :censored:. To a man.
Rafa got it wrong. Simple. Some would have you believe he has no influence at all and the game just pans itself out.
Wrong!
He calls the shots and pulls the strings. He made a bloomer last night and we would all be better off accepting that and moving on. Hopefully he has learned and will set things right for the second leg.
If not expect much of the same

Okay, say you're Rafa and it's an hour before kick off last night.  How would you set us up?  Again, say you're Rafa and the game's panning out how we see it unfold last night.  What would you change?  I'm still struggling to see what could have been done much differently.  IMO, he picked pretty much the best available lineup and employed the same tactics that have been so successful for us of late.  We grabbed the early goal that we would have been hoping for but, from there, the wheels slowly came off through a series of errors from players who, up until last night, had been fit and firing on all cylinders.  So, yeah, I struggle to see how last night was primarily down to Rafa besides in the generic sense that the buck always stops with the manager when players fail to perform.

Agreed.

The result was down to two goals off of corners with our players ball watching and within less than a yard of Ivanovic (Sp?).  Nobody took the initiative and went after either ball and said "No :censored: Way is that ball getting past me."  Hardly the Manager's fault (And I am far from thinking the sun shines out of Rafa's :censored:). 

For those saying that Benny or Babel should have played instead of Lucas.  Stop.  I mean really, that is just full hindsight Ballacks.  Yes Lucas was dire.  Hey here's a thought, why not rip Mascherano a new :censored: for not keeping his trap shut against Real Madrid and getting a yellow for dissent, thus putting Rafa in a position where he had no choice other than using the Brazilian.

Xabi Alonso is one of my favorites on this team and I've said before we would not be where we are right now this season had it not been for his incredible play.  But last night, he was a mere shell of himself.  I'm not pinning the loss on him by any stretch.  This was a team loss.  Every one of the players on the pitch last night need to ask themselves questions and if they are honest, I don't think a single one of them will be able to say that they played there best.

A slap back down to earth has just happened, now lets see how we bounce back.
s@int - 13 December 2009

I won't celebrate Rafa going........ but I will be over the moon if Dalglish comes in. League within 2 years if he gets the job, AND YOU CAN QUOTE ME ON THAT.
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Postby destro » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:35 pm

We lost to a better team on the night, whats the problem, it happens ?

It wasnt Raffas fault or the Team or the Zonal marking, Chelsa played the best they have for ages and we lost ???

Yes it is hard to take and a lot of people expected us to win the game. It seems a lot of people have been waiting for this blip, prob the same ones who had their attack posts ready after 91 minutes of the Fullham game only to have to delete them seconds later.

We take care of Blackburn first then we go out all guns blazing in the second leg and see what happens and stop trying to look for excuses and just hold our hands up, be gratious in defeat ( no matter how much it hurts ) and say we lost to a better team on the night.
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Postby Sir Roger » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:48 pm

zarababe wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Fickle?
How can we beat chelsea twice with the same group of players and then get whacked like that?
Chelsea didnt play fantastic. We played :censored:. To a man.
Rafa got it wrong. Simple. Some would have you believe he has no influence at all and the game just pans itself out.
Wrong!
He calls the shots and pulls the strings. He made a bloomer last night and we would all be better off accepting that and moving on. Hopefully he has learned and will set things right for the second leg.
If not expect much of the same

Yep - fickle.. ppl like you who can't wait to see failure, .. funny how 'you lot' have been notably absent with praise for how well the team has been playing of late..  we didn't play well for the majority of the game; Gerrard was not fully fit, Mash our lynch pin, absent and towrads the end, the team looked tired..  so we pick our selves up and get on with it ......  as all good footballing teams do .. SIR  !

Youre mistaken on two points
I can wait to see failure. In fact I can wait forever to see failure because I actually dont want to see it
I wasnt absent with praise for how well the team was playing of late. If you could be ars.ed going back through my posts (I cant) you will see that I praise when its merited and criticise when its not.
I am simpy discussing the things that went wrong in my opinion. As we all can and should. It doesnt make me a Rafa hater or a closet manc. It could be argued that it makes me a proper red because I am willing to question things and not just have blind loyalty. Disagreeing is not treachery. It is democracy.
:;):
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Postby RedShredder » Thu Apr 09, 2009 7:52 pm

Number 9 wrote:Bottom line is Chelsea were freakishly good last night going by their recent form..and we were well below our usual form of late!
When two teams meet and this is the case,theres only one outcome!

I have to laugh at all the idiots blaming zonal marking.Zonal marking has given us one of the best defensive records in the League season after season since Rafa arrived!So that arguement is just bollox..Two many on here listening to Andy Gray rather than looking at the facts!

Agreed

I was not surprised by our hot start as I figured we would come out of the gates ready to go

I really was surprised though at just the way we glossed through the 2nd half. It was as if we took our foot off the peddle and just decided to drive at half-speed

I don't think Chelsea did anything special other than execute incredibly well and WHEN they needed to.

Their first goal was very impressive but we had 3 men just standing flat-footed around him. Where is the defense?
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Postby Effes » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:01 pm

You cant blame Rafa at all for last night, the way we'd played lately it was just a casse of same
team/formation and go out and do the biz.

However, it only takes a glance at our formation to see a "key" way to play us.
Stop Gerrard and you greatly nullify the attacking potential of the team.
I think it's easier said than done tho, Stoke (at their place) did it well - but if
you have a monster like Essien in your squad then nullifying Gerrard is not such at tall order.

I did think we tended to sit a bit deep after scoring, and again pretty suspect defending at set pieces.

Two things that concern me are - how will we bounce back? - and will teams play that way against us in the league?

Look at how Man U were affected after we beat them; I hope we avoid such a wobble.

Re. the 2nd leg - all we need to do is be 1-0 up by half time and it's game on.
Last edited by Effes on Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby zarababe » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:13 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
zarababe wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Fickle?
How can we beat chelsea twice with the same group of players and then get whacked like that?
Chelsea didnt play fantastic. We played :censored:. To a man.
Rafa got it wrong. Simple. Some would have you believe he has no influence at all and the game just pans itself out.
Wrong!
He calls the shots and pulls the strings. He made a bloomer last night and we would all be better off accepting that and moving on. Hopefully he has learned and will set things right for the second leg.
If not expect much of the same

Yep - fickle.. ppl like you who can't wait to see failure, .. funny how 'you lot' have been notably absent with praise for how well the team has been playing of late..  we didn't play well for the majority of the game; Gerrard was not fully fit, Mash our lynch pin, absent and towrads the end, the team looked tired..  so we pick our selves up and get on with it ......  as all good footballing teams do .. SIR  !

Youre mistaken on two points
I can wait to see failure. In fact I can wait forever to see failure because I actually dont want to see it
I wasnt absent with praise for how well the team was playing of late. If you could be ars.ed going back through my posts (I cant) you will see that I praise when its merited and criticise when its not.
I am simpy discussing the things that went wrong in my opinion. As we all can and should. It doesnt make me a Rafa hater or a closet manc. It could be argued that it makes me a proper red because I am willing to question things and not just have blind loyalty. Disagreeing is not treachery. It is democracy.
:;):

.. it was tough seeing us look so limp.. but it has been a long time since a team has out played us and made us look so 'ordinary'.. so on days like this you can disect everything or accept it's football.. and sometimes you lose, your outplayed and the most unlikely outcome.. becomes..
THE BRENDAN REVOLUTION IS UPON US !

KING KENNY.. Always LEGEND !

RAFA.. MADE THE PEOPLE HAPPY !

Miss YOU Phil-Drummer - RIP YNWA

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Postby NANNY RED » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:42 pm

destro wrote:We lost to a better team on the night, whats the problem, it happens ?

It wasnt Raffas fault or the Team or the Zonal marking, Chelsa played the best they have for ages and we lost ???

Yes it is hard to take and a lot of people expected us to win the game. It seems a lot of people have been waiting for this blip, prob the same ones who had their attack posts ready after 91 minutes of the Fullham game only to have to delete them seconds later.

We take care of Blackburn first then we go out all guns blazing in the second leg and see what happens and stop trying to look for excuses and just hold our hands up, be gratious in defeat ( no matter how much it hurts ) and say we lost to a better team on the night.

Best post ive read in this thread :nod

An we will go to Theres looking like we have no chance, which in effect for me takes the pressure off us, Its not over till its over . An with 96 shining stars looking down on us i still believe its on.
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Postby kopite_1232002 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:07 pm

we were outplayed and out classed last night, simple as.. its  not Rafa's fault.we came unstuck against a team that played there best game all season but wee need to forget that now..

I woke up last night and cudnt get it out my head we had been beaten 3-1 at home and i cant tell u how gutted i was..

Sooo were now

second leg what have we got to lose as far as every pundit is concerned were OUT.. but were Liverpool the comeback kings!!

we put 4 past united 4 past Madrid and 5 past villa we know how to score...

We need to go at them from the off and I'm telling u now if we get an early goal were rite back in it they will bottle it

All i want to see is Rafa going for it. what do we have to lose sweet f.a if we go out we go out because on last nights performance we deserve it..


But if we do i want to go out kicking and screaming and my gut feeling says we might witness something special



COME ON RED MEN !!!!!!


P.S FU CK ALL U ANTI RAFA BASHING DIK HEADS. GO TO THE CORNER GIVE UR HEAD A WOBBLE AND SUPPORT YE TEAM YE BUNCH OF GLORY SEEKIN BELL ENDS
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