Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:55 am

simolonge wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

I'mnot particularly bothered either way. So what if we've got 30 16-18 year olds on less than £10k between them, with a view to a couple of them coming good?

It only takes one Danny Guthrie to pay for all the others.

Its not all about money though Lando.

The way we treat these supposed young startlets is poor by the sounds of it.

And it may affect our ability in the future to attract young players.

What sound of what Ace ?

If you mean the comments of Antwi then he isnt the first and wont be the last player to have not made it at a club and bemoaned his lack of opportunitites or dismay at the mamnagement of his career.

These kids are treated like royalty - I know this because I have a family friend that has been through the system at Liverpool. He was paid handsomely, trained expertly, and despite not making it has nothing but good things to say about his time at the club. He was also given the chance to take his pro licences from UEFA (at no cost by the way) and has since been reemployed by the club working within hte academy as a trainer.

No i didnt mean Antwi mate i meant Hammill who said that he doesnt really get any feedback apart from off the manager of the team he is on loan at.

Must be a little like you have just been farmed out and forgotten about.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:08 am

Is 62 way too big a squad? For the first team and reserves only then yes, for the club then no. The first team uses up a lot of players, in the Premiership alone we've used as many as 29 different players.

LIVERPOOL PLAYERS USED IN PREMIERSHIP

08/09 23
07/08 25
06/07 29
05/06 24
04/05 29

Realistically you're unlikely to get away with much less than 40-50, I think our squad is a little on the large size and mainly because Rafa delights in signing young foreign kids.

I sympathise with Lindfield and the others, with our lack of alternatives to Kuyt you'd think one of the young strikers might get a chance. But in reality the youth team players have to be exceptional talents like Carra, Gerrard, Fowler or Owen to make it at a club like Liverpool that can spend £10m+ on a striker.

According to wikipedia we have SEVENTEEN players out on loan, that's one short of the number of youth players we have listed on Liverpoolfc.tv. I think Rafa needs to trim the squad size and stop signing young foreign kids in twos and threes. Maybe he's obsessed with developing a superkid, thinking the more he signs, the more likely he is to end up with a gem and he can sell the rest off. I think it is more likely we'll end up releasing more than end up first team regulars. Anyone know if Real Madrid have a comparable squad size, what with them fielding a reserve team in a lower league? (as I understand it)

by **simolonge** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:20 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
simolonge wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

I'mnot particularly bothered either way. So what if we've got 30 16-18 year olds on less than £10k between them, with a view to a couple of them coming good?

It only takes one Danny Guthrie to pay for all the others.

Its not all about money though Lando.

The way we treat these supposed young startlets is poor by the sounds of it.

And it may affect our ability in the future to attract young players.

What sound of what Ace ?

If you mean the comments of Antwi then he isnt the first and wont be the last player to have not made it at a club and bemoaned his lack of opportunitites or dismay at the mamnagement of his career.

These kids are treated like royalty - I know this because I have a family friend that has been through the system at Liverpool. He was paid handsomely, trained expertly, and despite not making it has nothing but good things to say about his time at the club. He was also given the chance to take his pro licences from UEFA (at no cost by the way) and has since been reemployed by the club working within hte academy as a trainer.

No i didnt mean Antwi mate i meant Hammill who said that he doesnt really get any feedback apart from off the manager of the team he is on loan at.

Must be a little like you have just been farmed out and forgotten about.

He is on loan at another club though - and should only expect feedback from his line maanager at the time - the manager of his current club.

Personally I want Rafa concentrating on developing our players at the club right now.

To be fair though, Rafa, the kind of guy who goes into the minutest detail about everything - do you think he doesnt know whats going on with all the lad ? I doubt it.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:41 am

simolonge wrote:He is on loan at another club though - and should only expect feedback from his line maanager at the time - the manager of his current club.

Personally I want Rafa concentrating on developing our players at the club right now.

To be fair though, Rafa, the kind of guy who goes into the minutest detail about everything - do you think he doesnt know whats going on with all the lad ? I doubt it.

No mate i disagree, yes he should obviously get feedback from the manager of the club he is loaned to.
But also he should receive contact from someone at the club letting him know how they think he is progressing etc.

If i dont get monthly feedback in my role i am not happy and feel like i have been forgotten about.

These young kids that were probably sweet talked into signing get a bit of a raw deal once they hit a certain age imo.

by **simolonge** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:45 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
simolonge wrote:He is on loan at another club though - and should only expect feedback from his line maanager at the time - the manager of his current club.

Personally I want Rafa concentrating on developing our players at the club right now.

To be fair though, Rafa, the kind of guy who goes into the minutest detail about everything - do you think he doesnt know whats going on with all the lad ? I doubt it.

No mate i disagree, yes he should obviously get feedback from the manager of the club he is loaned to.
But also he should receive contact from someone at the club letting him know how they think he is progressing etc.

If i dont get monthly feedback in my role i am not happy and feel like i have been forgotten about.

These young kids that were probably sweet talked into signing get a bit of a raw deal once they hit a certain age imo.

Probably and in your opinion.

Have you read carra and Gerrard and Fowlers autobiography ?

Not one of them has a pop at the youth set up.

Sounds like a thinly veiled attack on Rafa in the face of some good results to me.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:48 am

Simolonge wrote:Sounds like a thinly veiled attack on Rafa in the face of some good results to me.

No, if it was a Rafa attack my alarms would have initiated!

It just seems to me a healthy discussion between you and Ace about how difficult is to make it to the first team and whether we're doing things right. Please continue.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:57 am

All it really highlights is the lack of talent coming through in the UK at any level.

by **GYBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:26 am

well new contracts are being offered to spearing and darby so think rafa feels they have a good chance to make it

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:35 am

simolonge wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
simolonge wrote:He is on loan at another club though - and should only expect feedback from his line maanager at the time - the manager of his current club.

Personally I want Rafa concentrating on developing our players at the club right now.

To be fair though, Rafa, the kind of guy who goes into the minutest detail about everything - do you think he doesnt know whats going on with all the lad ? I doubt it.

No mate i disagree, yes he should obviously get feedback from the manager of the club he is loaned to.
But also he should receive contact from someone at the club letting him know how they think he is progressing etc.

If i dont get monthly feedback in my role i am not happy and feel like i have been forgotten about.

These young kids that were probably sweet talked into signing get a bit of a raw deal once they hit a certain age imo.

Probably and in your opinion.

Have you read carra and Gerrard and Fowlers autobiography ?

Not one of them has a pop at the youth set up.

Sounds like a thinly veiled attack on Rafa in the face of some good results to me.

Yeah i have read them mate, but they were not in the youth set up while Rafa was manager.

I understand we have moved on since then and football is alot more about the squad with us being in europe every season and we have so many more fixtures etc.

But still so many players on the books and sent out on loan with little or no feedback and no chance of making the first team.
Just sounds like we could be a bit clearer and what our aims are with these players and treat them a bit better regarding feedback.

by **GYBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:36 am

Im pretty sure there is some sort of feedback and channels open between liverpool and the loan clubs and players

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:37 am

GYBS wrote:Im pretty sure there is some sort of feedback and channels open between liverpool and the loan clubs and players

You would think so, but not according to Hammill, a plater who we all had/have high hopes for.

by **GYBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:40 am

thats just one player saying it mate - im pretty sure i remember anderson saying liverpool were always in contact with him - maybe rafa is speaking to the manager of the club where hammill is and seeing how it is going

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:55 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
GYBS wrote:Im pretty sure there is some sort of feedback and channels open between liverpool and the loan clubs and players

You would think so, but not according to Hammill, a plater who we all had/have high hopes for.

In the case of Gonzalez, there wasn't direct communication between Rafa and him according to Gonzalez himself, bar one phone call in 6 months.

But the club did send personnel and did request videos of away games to the club.

Not sure if that contact should be more fluent neither mate. The player knows what he has to do, adapt to the new discipline and methods, do his best, and impress. The club and Rafa will take notice of it for sure if he does.

by **heimdall** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:14 pm

GYBS wrote:Im pretty sure there is some sort of feedback and channels open between liverpool and the loan clubs and players

So Hammil and the other fella are just talking sh1t are they, you somehow know better than they do perhaps?

Our squad is way too big and we are wasting money, I would rather we had a squad of 24 excellent players instead of 14 excellent players plus 50 odd distinctly average players. Wouldn't that make more sense?
Why do we need a squad of 60 players?

Totally agree that someone from the club should be keeping these loaned out players in the loop, not necessarily Rafa though.

by **GYBS** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:19 pm

what other fella ? and are you that naive to think that rafa doesnt take an interest in the players out on loan ?

How much do you think it would cost us to get 24 excellent players then ?

Most of those 60 players are young kids who could work out or who couldnt work out - where as its a main bunch of 23 that play in the first team . the rest are in the ressies or under 18 so it works out at around 20 players per squad plus the academy lads .

Even if only ten per cent of those kids turn out good enough thats 4 or 5 players that could easily save us up to 50 odd million .

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