Liverpool FC Forum

by **Zidane** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:43 pm

Where he is right now. Simple answer to a simple question guys he gets all the freedom to roam all over the pitch and not hurt the team when doing so, it's his best position by far imo. As long as our midfield can play well enough without him I wouldn't want to see him in the midfield again honestly. A good midfield with him and Torres up front is very dangerous, much more dangerous than him in midfield with Torres and Kuyt or Babel up front.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:44 pm

Scottbot wrote:Good post mate. I think quite of few of us would love to see Stevie swith to the right hand at times this season, even if the switch took place mid-game to give the opposition a bit of a curve-ball. Spot on with his ability out wide, he always shapes to cross and then cuts inside, everyone knows he is gonna do it but it is so effective it works everytime.

Yeah, I love it when we change things up mid-match, Scott. It really throws a spanner in the works for the opposition. The added benefit of having Gerrard ghost out to the right is that he can work effectively with Arbeloa. Whereas Aurelio and Dossena on the other side (haven't seen enough of Insua to know) are more about overlapping and getting in their crosses, Arbeloa's game seems much more about interchanging passes with the right midfielder and creating opportunities for himself or his teammate to get in behind the fullback and drive into the box for the cutback. Kuyt, for all of his endeavor, rarely provides this kind of interchange with Arbeloa and he often gets stranded in deep positions. Gerrard, IMO, would look to play those clever little exchanges much more and I think we'd see a lot more of the Arbeloa we saw on Sunday: striding into the box with the ball at his feet, head up looking for options.

by **Madmax** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:18 pm

Gerrards best position?? Where he is playing now!!! Just off torres.... License to roam where ever he wants. With alonsos clinical passes and riera helping on the left all is just perfect. We just need to sort out a class right mid player..

by **redhayesy** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:11 pm

stmichael wrote:It's hardly coincidence that since we've sold Keane, we've hit our best form.

No matter what Keane's contribution was in any match he was always the talking point. Rafa had to field endless questions about him and it was draining for the manager and player, who both deserved better.

very good post mate, 100% agree. as for stevie g he is defo loving the so called free role,cause he's everwhere at the moment! his energy etc has defo lifted the team at the moment,everyone is benefiting from it at the moment not just torres which is awsome. we have finally proved we not just a 2 man team.

by **devaney** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:15 pm

heimdall wrote:The current setup is perfect, just imagine if we had someone like Riera (of the last few games) on the right, now that would be fecking scary.

Sh.it what does Kuyt have to do?

by **yolz** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:43 am

I think that the main reason Gerrard has not managed to shine on the international scene is due to the fact that there is too much anticipation and expectations
The man is so versatile that he even fit in perfectly as a full back in Istanbul!
Yet, he has not been showing the same form when he dons an England shirt
Could be that he wasn't granted to play in his favourite position as ACM, but then again, he bangs in 25 goals playing on the right for us!
If England wants to progress as a team, it's time Capello starts building the team around Gerrard rather that trying to fit him in

by **ConnO'var** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:50 am

Ask Alex....

by **Madmax** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:03 am

yolz wrote:I think that the main reason Gerrard has not managed to shine on the international scene is due to the fact that there is too much anticipation and expectations
The man is so versatile that he even fit in perfectly as a full back in Istanbul!
Yet, he has not been showing the same form when he dons an England shirt
Could be that he wasn't granted to play in his favourite position as ACM, but then again, he bangs in 25 goals playing on the right for us!
If England wants to progress as a team, it's time Capello starts building the team around Gerrard rather that trying to fit him in

As long as he play brill for us thats all that matters. dont really care how he performs with england. Actually would be even better to put him in a position that would restrict gerrard from performing 100% than he could stay unscathed and have the zest to perform even better for us!!

by **DanAn** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:07 am

yolz wrote:I think that the main reason Gerrard has not managed to shine on the international scene is due to the fact that there is too much anticipation and expectations
The man is so versatile that he even fit in perfectly as a full back in Istanbul!
Yet, he has not been showing the same form when he dons an England shirt
Could be that he wasn't granted to play in his favourite position as ACM, but then again, he bangs in 25 goals playing on the right for us!
If England wants to progress as a team, it's time Capello starts building the team around Gerrard rather that trying to fit him in

I think it's a case of too many chiefs not enough indians. You put a variation of Lampard, Gerrard, Walcott, Cole, Young, Beckham on the field and nobody's doing the donkey work. The whole team make up has been flawed IMO.

As you say I think England would do better imulating Liverpool and buiding a lineup around Gerrard as Liverpool has done. Sit frank's fat :censored:

as plan B.

-------------Owen--------------
--Young-----Gerrard------Rooney
---------Barry-----Carrick--------
Cole---Terry---Ferdinand---Johnson
-------------Hart-----------------

I think that matches up pretty well to liverpool. Barry and Carrick are similar to Alonso and Masherano. Cole and Young are better than Aurelio and Riera. Johnson and Rooney are better than Kuyt and Arbeloa. And the two Center half's are at least the equal of ours. It's just GK and Striker that England falls down majorly on. I think that's a lineup that could win the world cup on it's day and with Rafa in charge.

by **Sabre** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:13 am

yolz wrote:I think that the main reason Gerrard has not managed to shine on the international scene is due to the fact that there is too much anticipation and expectations
The man is so versatile that he even fit in perfectly as a full back in Istanbul!
Yet, he has not been showing the same form when he dons an England shirt

Could be that he wasn't granted to play in his favourite position as ACM, but then again, he bangs in 25 goals playing on the right for us!
If England wants to progress as a team, it's time Capello starts building the team around Gerrard rather that trying to fit him in

Agreed the last line.

I think he hasn't shined in the international scene quite simply because England hasn't built a team around him, because they've been wasting a precious time and very good players all this time.

I've read travesties in the London press all these years like comparing Gerrard and Lampard. For me, even making the comparison between the two players is an insult to Gerrard. It was an insult in 2004, it's an insult now.

Gerrard has been rotated and styled in England a lot, we've seen him as a deep CM sometimes, almost holding midfielder, but the men in front of him weren't good enough to retain posession and that left Gerrard sold, and without freedom. I've seen other times Gerrard and Lampard disturbing each other as attacking midfielders. Someone should have simply reckoned that Gerrard is a man to build a team around him. And if you have to sit Lampard, you sit Lampard. He's not that good. He has never been, and he'll never be.

by **stmichael** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:36 pm

yolz wrote:I think that the main reason Gerrard has not managed to shine on the international scene is due to the fact that there is too much anticipation and expectations
The man is so versatile that he even fit in perfectly as a full back in Istanbul!
Yet, he has not been showing the same form when he dons an England shirt
Could be that he wasn't granted to play in his favourite position as ACM, but then again, he bangs in 25 goals playing on the right for us!
If England wants to progress as a team, it's time Capello starts building the team around Gerrard rather that trying to fit him in

I've said it before, Gerrard is definitely the English teams biggest problem. Capello knows he's England best player and he has to play somewhere but in recent matches that's been on the left side which is a complete waste. If you play him central in a midfield two against anyone decent in International football we'd be completely exposed.

The problem is, if he plays where he plays for us, where does Rooney play? He isn't going to be dropped and he can't play upfront on his own. England don't have a Torres unfortunately.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:00 pm

If I were Capello I would play a fully fit England:

James
Gerrard Terry Ferdinand A. Cole
Beckham Carrick Barry
Lampard J. Cole
Rooney

by **stmichael** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:09 pm

Flying Dutchman's lesson for Gerrard

Martin Samuel, Daily Mail
....................................................................................

There is a reason Steven Gerrard is not asked to play for England in the same position he plays for Liverpool, and his name is Wayne Rooney. Those who think that the great conundrum of England selection still concerns Gerrard’s relationship with Frank Lampard are living in the past.

They occupy different areas of the field now and one might as well debate whether John Terry and Gareth Barry are mutually exclusive. Gerrard versus Rooney is the issue these days because Gerrard performs so brilliantly for Liverpool at deep centre forward, behind Fernando Torres, and that is where Rooney expects to play for England (except with Emile Heskey as his foil, which might explain why England are not quite up there with Spain yet).

The teaser for Fabio Capello, the England manager, is whether he indulges Gerrard, as the man in form, and shunts Rooney to a wide area, or whether he keeps Rooney in a role that, this season, has seen him turn in his best international performances since the 2004 European Championship, therefore keeping Gerrard on the left, a role he plainly dislikes.

Either way, he could do worse than to sit both men down with a DVD of Dirk Kuyt of Liverpool as a way of demonstrating that occupying the wide position does not mean the end, but the beginning.

Perhaps the ultimate Kuyt goal is Liverpool’s equaliser against Arsenal at the Emirates Stadium in the Champions League last season. Ryan Babel slips the ball to Torres, who has dropped out of his lone striker position to assist on the edge of the area.

Torres plays in Gerrard, who drives into the Arsenal penalty area, going past Emmanuel Eboue, then Kolo Toure, before pulling the ball back from the byline to cross. Kuyt, arriving late at full pelt from a wide right position, out-muscles Philippe Senderos, the Arsenal centre half, in the six-yard box and forces the ball past Arsenal’s goalkeeper Manuel Almunia.

And there, encapsulated, is the changing face of modern football. The striker comes out of the space and the midfield and wide players flood into it. What Capello wants from his wide forward, Kuyt has been doing for years now, often to little credit. His work ethic, unselfishness and ability to operate in a netherworld between the touchline, forward line and midfield make him the epitome of the modern attacker.

Kuyt will never have an FA Cup final named after him like Gerrard or draw comparisons with Pele as Rooney did in Portugal but at the top of his game for Liverpool, pound for pound, he continues to punch his weight against the best of them. He knows what his manager wants and he delivers it without ego or introspection.

While Gerrard can obsess about his place in a game and Rooney can become angered by his predicament if unsuccessful, Kuyt has somehow learned to balance his past with his present and accept that circumstances have changed.

He is known as a down-to-earth character — his father was a North Sea fisherman in Katwijk aan Zee, and his wife continued to work as a nurse at an old people’s home even when her husband was one of the most famous footballers in Holland — and his performances reflect that. There is little ego in what Kuyt brings to his team, even though at Liverpool he could easily have thrown a tantrum by now.

Kuyt was bought as a striker. Yes, he could play wide if required because in Holland the 4-3-3 system is king, but he was the Dutch league’s top goalscorer on two occasions, Feyenoord’s for three consecutive seasons, was voted Footballer of the Year in 2005-06 and left for Liverpool with a record of 71 goals in 101 league games.

His boyhood hero was Marco van Basten and on arrival he would justifiably have harboured ambitions to follow in the footsteps of Anfield legends such as Ian Rush and Robbie Fowler.

To have been so thoroughly recast, several years later, as a right-sided wide player whose creative talents and defensive running are as valued as the odd, often vital, goal, would have set off an outburst of temper in lesser men.

Kuyt could no doubt have found a club to accommodate him as a striker had he wished and many foreign imports would have done just that. His willingness to conform to the policies of Rafael Benitez, his manager, has paid dividends, however. Kuyt now recreates his Liverpool role for Holland when, as a striker, he might not have got into the national team.

In this, the system in his country is also rewarded. Dutch football teaches its young footballers to be comfortable in a variety of roles, rather than fearing new ideas, which seems the English way.

This is where Kuyt’s adaptability bisects Capello’s vision for England. To make the next step, Capello requires a player with Gerrard and Rooney’s ability but Kuyt’s understanding of the game and absence of ego. He needs someone approaching the perfect footballer and he does not have that within his England team: not in terms of temperament, at least.

Gerrard may be an inspirational presence on the field for Liverpool, but off it, and with England, he is beset by insecurities. When he complained that he had only been played in his best position five times in 68 games by England he was referring to a role so specific it would determine not just his selection, but that of another one, or maybe two, players.

Gerrard was speaking not of central midfield, but of attacking central midfield with another player detailed to sit and hold. So, given that he felt short-changed playing centrally with Lampard, imagine his reaction when asked to start wide. Never forget that Capello’s first thought was to make him captain and play him in the role he occupies so magnificently for Liverpool now — behind Rooney, who was deployed as a striker — and it was a failure.

Rooney has started on the left with Manchester United to some success, particularly in Europe last season when Sir Alex Ferguson preferred his defensive work-rate to that of Cristiano Ronaldo, but the player would appear to be on something of a short fuse at the moment and Capello may not wish to risk unsettling him further by moving him from a position in which he is beginning to prosper.

Capello’s instinct was to try to use Rooney as a lone striker last year, but he quickly became convinced that he is better in the hole between attack and midfield. Gerrard is also gradually looking more comfortable starting on the left and Capello may feel that swapping the players now is change for the sake of it.

Against that, if he is going to experiment, the time to do so is on Saturday in a friendly against Slovakia, not the following Wednesday in a competitive match with Ukraine. If he can work on switching Rooney and Gerrard this week, then that variation can be taken into the World Cup qualifier, where it will pose a serious problem for the Ukraine defence.

At times, Capello appears to react only to club form (judging by the selection and subsequent de-selection of a gang of Aston Villa players in the past two months) and this promotes the case for Gerrard in the centre.

Yet if he gets it wrong and Gerrard fails to rise to the occasion, with Rooney also in unfamiliar international territory on the left, Capello risks reducing two of his best players at a time when his England team are running relatively smoothly.

Capello is, of course, handsomely rewarded for these judgment calls but, even so, how much simpler just to be able to play a low-maintenance, highyield, ever-reliable, technically excellent Dutchman. If only everything in life was as simple as picking Dirk Kuyt.

by **JoeTerp** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:27 pm

what happened to Gerrard's goal talley in 06/07 the season we lost to Milan in the final? only 7 goals in the league and 11 for the campaign. I don't remember that well, but was he playing more as a central midfielder that season? I thought I remembered reading especially from Stu about how Gerrard was wasted in a 4-5-1 system because he would go missing for parts of the game and was always better playing facing towards the goal at almost all times and making runs from deep. What has changed? the fact that the lone striker is now Torres instead of Kuyt, or Gerrard becoming more familiar, or Rafa tweaking the role he wants from Stevie to fit him better, all or none of the above?

by **Owzat** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:39 pm

JoeTerp wrote:If I were Capello I would play a fully fit England:

James
Gerrard Terry Ferdinand A. Cole
Beckham Carrick Barry
Lampard J. Cole
Rooney

If ALL players fully fit :

Green
Richards Terry Ferdinand Bridge
Carrick Barry
Rooney Gerrard Joe Cole
Owen

Put Rooney in a Kuyt role, Cole in a Riera role with Gerrard playing his own role. Leave fat frank out, if he doesn't score he does feck all for England (usually) I think England's biggest problem is trying to accommodate all the star name primadonnas and not trying to get the players to work a good system. Richards may not be an ideal RB, but I think he's better there than most alternate options. I think trying to include Beckham, Cashley and fat frank just overhypes the team and fills it with egos, as if the one I put forward doesn't (still) have enough.

One thing Sir Alf Ramsey got right was to pick the right players and that didn't necessarily mean the best. I guess a kind of "Kuyt approach", maybe not the best RM selected but perhaps fits better in the system and makes it work better than a big name RM would. I think citeh may find out how trying to fit in lots of primadonnas in one team doesn't always work, especially with an over-rated loads of primadonnas like we've got. For me England look a much better side without Beckham, lets them focus on their game and not try to play through Beckham or rely on him hitting his target from a cross or a free-kick. Another reason I never like seeing Crouch in an England or Liverpool shirt, it can define a pattern of play involving a target rather than playing the ball about and involving the TEAM (emphasis on teams over individuals)

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