Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:53 am

Should the Champions League final be moved from Rome?

How many people have to be stabbed in Rome before Uefa agrees to move the Champions League final? Roma’s notorious supporters are stuck in the dark ages of the Seventies and Eighties, but that has not stopped Uefa from pressing ahead with its controversial plan to hold this year’s Champions League final in Rome's Olympic Stadium. The time is right to make a stand.

Sources at Uefa have told The Times that many working at the organisation’s headquarters in Switzerland are unhappy with the choice of venue for May’s final. When they raised their concerns with the governing body’s top brass they were told that it was Italy’s turn to host the final.

Uefa is hoping that there will be no trouble on May 27 and is confident that Italian police will deal with any problems. Any English supporter who has been to the Olympic Stadium knows that holding the final there is a risk not worth taking. Type “Roma” and “stabbing” into Google and you get 280,000 results.

Arsenal supporters were attacked when their team beat Roma on penalties last week, 14 Liverpool fans were stabbed when their side played in the Italian capital eight years ago, 16 Manchester United followers were stabbed in 2007, three Middlesbrough fans were knifed in 2006. The list goes on.

“It's fair to say a few eyebrows have been raised about the decision to play the game at the Olympic Stadium,” a source at Greater Manchester Police said. “Given the number of times Roma supporters have found themselves embroiled in trouble in recent years, doubts have been expressed about whether an English club would have been awarded the final if they'd the kind of record Roma have on that front.”

According to Uefa, the governing body’s core mission is to promote the principles of unity and solidarity in football. It is difficult to see how that can be achieved when English, Spanish, German and Portuguese supporters are worried that they will be stabbed if their team qualifies for the final.

“We are very concerned,” Malcolm Clarke, chairman of the Football Supporters’ Federation, said. “There is a history of English fans suffering serious attacks in Rome and a failure by the Italian authorities to deal with it.”

Violent incidents at Serie A games may be declining, but Italian football needs a short, sharp shock to eradicate its hooligan problem. English clubs were banned from European competition for five years after the tragic events at Heysel in 1985, but Uefa’s policy for dealing with what is rapidly becoming the Italian disease is a slap on the wrist and a paltry fine.

Michel Platini, the Uefa president, warned earlier this season that the final would be moved if there were any more violent incidents in Rome and we are challenging him to back his words with action. The Champions League final is scheduled to be played on Wednesday May 27 and Wembley Stadium, the Nou Camp in Barcelona and the AllianzArena in Munich are some of the venues available to host European club football’s biggest game.

Say no to Rome. Say no to Stab City. Say non to Michel Platini. Join our campaign to force Uefa to move the Champions League final by e-mailing rome@timesonline.co.uk and we will forward your comments to Platini. Remember to tell your friends to get their voice heard and forward this onto them. And if they want, they too can sign up to Ahead of TheGame, Britain’s best football e-mail. Tell them why they should – they can make a difference. Sign up here.

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THE ITALIAN DISEASE

In recent years, supporters of Middlesbrough, Genoa, Manchester United, Catania, Liverpool, Atalanta, Inter Milan, Lazio, AC Milan, Reggina and Arsenal have been stabbed while playing Roma …

MAY 1984
After the 1984 European Cup final numerous Liverpool fans were stabbed in a night of violence after Roma lost on penalties. The trouble went largely unreported in the British media in an era when English hooliganism dominated the headlines.

FEBRUARY 2001
Fourteen Liverpool supporters suffered stab wounds in Rome before and after a Uefa Cup tie.

DECEMBER 2001
When Liverpool returned to the Italian capital for a Champions League game, five more visiting fans were hospitalised after being knifed.

MARCH 2006
Three Middlesbrough supporters were stabbed and ten others injured the night before the club secured an aggregate Uefa Cup victory over Roma. Officials at the Riverside Stadium, who were urged by the Italian authorities to provide fans with detailed safety advice, described the policing of the game as a "cesspool of mismanagement".

DECEMBER 2007
Seven Manchester United supporters were taken to hospital before the Champions League match against AS Roma at the Olympic Stadium. Three of the seven suffered stab wounds to the "stomach and buttocks", according to local police, while the others were injured after being beaten and kicked.

MARCH 2009
An Arsenal fan was attacked with a knife as a coach carrying supporters, who had travelled independently but had tickets, was attacked by a group of Roma "Ultras" just outside the Olympic Stadium. The coach's windows were smashed and at least one hooligan entered the vehicle, letting off a flare and stabbing a supporter in the knee.

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LISTEN TO THE FANS

Sean Bones, vice-chair of the Manchester United Supporters’ Trust:
“The wisdom of Uefa's choice of Rome as the venue for this year's Champions League final has to be called into question. Over the years when away supporters have visited Rome they have been picked off systematically on their way to and from the stadium. The most dangerous and notorious area is the Ponte Duca D'Aosta Bridge, where Italian police don't seem to have the ability or inclination to protect away fans. No one wants to see a continuation of the ruthless attacks that have been happening with alarming regularity over the years in Rome. Let's not lose sight of the fact that visiting supporters will be in Rome to watch a football game, not to have their lives threatened."

Steve Powell, Football Supporters’ Federation:
“We are very concerned about the repeated episodes of violence in Italy and will be putting pressure on Uefa. We have to make sure that supporters who behave well at football matches are treated with the respect that they deserve. Unfortunately, that is not always the case.”

Trizia Fiorellino, Chelsea Supporters’ Group:
“You will never stop me going to games, but lots of people are worried about the possibility of going to Rome. The stadium is big but the seats have been bolted onto the terraces and there is a massive running track around the pitch. It’s the Italian police that we are most worried about.”

Stuart Young, Middlesbrough Fanzone:
"As a Middlesbrough fan Rome brings back some frightening memories of what so-called football fans can do to the travelling opposition fans. We were warned of the potential dangers that may arise in Rome when we visited the Italian capital in 2006, but we did not expect the pure brutality by the Roma fans and to some extent the over-eager Italian police.

“With the possibility of the final being an all-English affair it will only encourage the fans of Lazio and Roma to go on the rampage against travelling fans. The danger signs are there and this must be addressed before it is too late. The final must be moved to a safer location to avoid the high possibility of fans getting injured or sadly being killed. This competition deserves to have a great location, but more importantly a safe environment for players and fans and the Olympic Stadium is not one of these locations for a big event like this."

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LISTEN TO THE LEGEND

Tommy Smith, former Liverpool captain:
“Thank God there are no Italian teams left in the competition. It is up to the FA to do something about this but I doubt they have enough power to make anything happen.”

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VOTE NOW

Let your fingers do the talking. Click here to tell us if you want the Champions League final removed from Rome. We will send the results to Uefa.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2009/03/ahead-of-the-14.html

by **Reg** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:55 am

Liverpool: Why Uefa has to move Champions League final away from Rome

Kristian Walsh

I feel quite spoilt. 22-years-old and I have witnessed two European Cup finals, including the most dramatic of all-time. But as I look towards the possibility of a third one in five years, there is more than a slight apprehension about what could transpire if we actually get there.

In Istanbul and Athens – and I’m sure Arsenal, United and Chelsea fans can confirm this to be the case in Paris and Moscow as well – Uefa heavily promoted their “fanzones”, representing solidarity and fair play in the footballing community.

These inflatable pillars of pretence presided over at least two finals which did not boast adequate facilities to host a match of the magnitude of the Champions League final.

In the euphoria of our win in Istanbul, it's forgotten the stadium was in the middle of nowhere thousands of miles away, a snapshot of Istanbul’s shattered dream of hosting the 2004 Olympic Games.

Athens was even worse, a maze of numerous inadequately organised checkpoints which were manned by overzealous police who tried to squeeze over 20,000 fans through the tiniest bottlenecks. Despite what William Galliard told the media, anyone who was there knows that the biggest problems came from the dire organisation of Europe’s governing body.

Seeing your side play in a European Cup final should be as comfortable and stress-free as possible – you should be able to go and watch your team with no reservations about external issues.

With this in mind, I am sure fans will echo my sentiment that the 2009 final should not be played in Rome, especially if an English team gets there.

In the past few years, fans of Manchester United, Arsenal and Middlesbrough have suffered difficulties there, with Arsenal’s problems occurring as recently as last week. I have also heard stories of our visit in 2001 which also brought problems.

The memories of Rome 77 and 84 for Liverpool fans are greeted with a warm, nostalgic smile; the Redmen travelled en masse via planes, trains and automobiles to see their side lift their first and fourth European Cup. I can’t speak for the supporters who were there back then – I can only absorb their engrossing anecdotes of their time in the Eternal city. But I think I am safe in saying their memories of Tommy Smith’s header and Grobbelaar’s shootout antics would have been less memorable if the Italian police and fans had crossed that unspeakable line.

Football is different now as it was then. The clientele of the match has changed. There are more families who attend now, as well as people who see the sport as purely entertainment. Although I am not a part of either demographic, I do understand why they would feel threatened by the venue – I certainly would not take my 13-year-old brother to Rome.

Fans do not want to be greeted with flailing batons from police or knives slashing from the hands of supposed football supporters. Fans do not want to have ferocious abuse catapulted towards them as they walk around the capital.

We should be able to watch our team play in a Champions League final with no hassle and no anxiety. Playing the final in Rome would result in nothing but that.

by **Reg** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:00 am

I was discussing this with a friend just today, not knowing of this campaign.

With the fan violence against ManUre and Arsenal last week plus the overly aggressive policing that appears to support home fans against away fans, it seems complete madness to hold the game in Rome.

Once AGAIN UEFA have made a completely illogical decision/choice based on personal gain

rather than taking the reality of the game and local considerations and track record into account.

Absolutely crazy and I back this campaign 100%. Take to Torino or to the San Siro, but Rome? Forget it, they dont deserve it.

by **LegBarnes** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:18 am

Any trouble like this at any ground/city the game should be moved its about safety of fans and tbh I wouldn'y feel safe going there.

But also why should roma fans get rewarded for being one of worst sets of fans in europe and get CL final there when there is many other clubs/citys with better fans that need to be rewarded...

Pure :censored:

.

by **simolonge** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:15 am

The same thing is said nearly every year when its Italy or not mainland Europe.

Never happen for one reason and one reason only.

The UEFA bigwigs will all have paid up for the nicest 5 star hotels ages ago.

by **Sabre** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:26 am

edit. Wrong thread.

by **Boocity** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:33 am

Sabre wrote:Where are the posters that went on and on and on about Rafa losing the plot and his mistake?

I respect that they said back then it was a mistake of Rafa. But for the sake of consistency I expected to see them having a go at Ferguson:

* Because he explains his own "facts" about when games start

* Because he says he spends less than Rafa, he shows his own "facts".

For doing that our manager was insulted. But it all depends on what papers you read, what you choose to twist or quote.

My option is clear, by default I trust the Liverpool manager, not the Manchester United manager. What about you?

Rafa was not genius for saying what he said, but he wasn't an arrogant idiot neither for it. He was just saying the things as he saw it. Pretty much like Ferguson is doing now. Someone saying Rafa lost the plot back then and believing Ferguson now would have to have their mind checked, as their bias has trespassed unhealthy levels.

Sabre, did you post this in th wrong topic???

by **Number 9** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:37 am

Sabre wrote:Where are the posters that went on and on and on about Rafa losing the plot and his mistake?

I respect that they said back then it was a mistake of Rafa. But for the sake of consistency I expected to see them having a go at Ferguson:

* Because he explains his own "facts" about when games start

* Because he says he spends less than Rafa, he shows his own "facts".

For doing that our manager was insulted. But it all depends on what papers you read, what you choose to twist or quote.

My option is clear, by default I trust the Liverpool manager, not the Manchester United manager. What about you?

Rafa was not genius for saying what he said, but he wasn't an arrogant idiot neither for it. He was just saying the things as he saw it. Pretty much like Ferguson is doing now. Someone saying Rafa lost the plot back then and believing Ferguson now would have to have their mind checked, as their bias has trespassed unhealthy levels.

Raffa was spot on saying what he said!
The thing is he said it at the wrong time mate.Our team were flying high and the "battle cry" had a reverse effect.He meant to rally the troops but they buckled..with pressure as opposed to being energized by anger or passion!
Do i blame Raffa?No
I put it down to inexperience..he was premature and got too confident too early

by **Sabre** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:44 am

Boo: Definitely, My mistake.

Please, do not quote my mistake, I'll post it in the proper thread

by **mighty mo** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:24 pm

if 2 english clubs make the final it makes sense to have the final at wembley or as a substitute the san siro meaning italy does not lose out in the showcase final ...... i see a horrible scenario of both roma and lazio fans joining forces to attack english supporters if the final is in rome...... the fans in that city have fascist nationalists ideologies and having the final there is a recipe for disaster....... hopefully common sense prevails........UEFA have already shown common sense regarding the hillsborough 20th year anniversary...... fingers crossed they show it again

by **tubby** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:50 pm

UEFA hate to admit when they are in the wrong.

by **Owzat** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:43 am

Simple facts are :

- the majority of the past incidents listed had already happened when they awarded the final
- they're unlikely to move the final this late for anything other than a serious security threat or loss(es) of life
- how many of the fans died? They don't aim to kill so the "threat" will not be deemed a serious one
- UEFA will claim the security will be tighter for a final, how can we prove any different?
- this is UEFA we're talking about, they may claim different but other countries don't get bans for racism, violence, killing fans etc. We were told if we misbehaved in Euro 2000 we would be banned, yet other fans fought and nothing happened.

and would we care if we were out of the competition and/or it was the mancs going to the final? It makes me laugh that English clubs claim prejudice against them, yet clamour to have finals moved. Didn't they want the last one moved to suit the English finalists and to avoid problems associated with getting to/into Russia?

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:07 am

the main problem i could see was a repeat of 84 where roma got to play the final at their own ground, lucky they are knocked out

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:27 am

Well ive been there twice for he footie 77 no problems at all but in 84 the bas.stards ambushed us. What i would say though if we get there an the Mancs do an all then yes i would move it , because it will be like hell on earth there. But if us an another European team get there then i would leave it .

by **KennyisGod....still** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:48 am

I dont think it matters where the final gets staged, if its us an the mancs its not gonna be pretty. late kick off, poor ticket allocation, all day drinkin..... an that aint to mention the potential end of season pi$$take for whichever loses the title race. as much as i'd love to be there to witness us in a CL final, thats one match i wudn wanna be at, specially abroad. an lets be honest, wembley wudn actually be perfect for keepin possible warrin fans segregated wud it? i don't see any chance of the game bein moved, too much money already spent, such a short time for re-arrangements (yes, its a one-off game but with a ridiculous sideshow tagged on it) and a chance for europe to ultimately kick us back out if fans misbehave. was there any trouble in moscow las year btw? never took much notice for some reason or other!!

if it turns out an england v europe final i think there'll be no problem, a Liverpool/arsenal final - i see no problems........ but us an the mancs..... difrent story i think unfortunately.

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