Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:18 pm

I couldn't vote, but if I could, until May, I was a 9.

The Alonso incident, the Agger delay for a contract, the Keane fiasco, and the Dossena/Degen mistakes, have downgraded me to n 8. Shorty after Middlesborough game I even was a 7. But now more calmed I'm an 8 again.

I think that we all may be more pro rafa or anti rafa, but most of the people can see a bit of both sides.

So just I've gone from 9 to 8, it's normal to see people going from 4, to 6, depending on results, so there would be no need to call him fickle if he did change 2 levels.

by **Effes** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:18 pm

Sabre wrote:
Effes wrote:What's with the 0 option "I was right in my after CL Letter. Clueless. Goodriddance."

What's that about, after CL letter?

It's what Bigmick explained, more or less, each of us could tell the story with our own tune.

At the time I found it too harsh since, just the days after a huge achievement like the fifth, which was a glorious achievement, it didn't seem to be the best moment for harsh criticism. I don't remember the ins and outs the tiny details of the letter, I only remember it to be vaguely too harsh. Wasn't meant as a super dig, that is, in number 10 I tried to put the other extreme as a proRafa cliche, and as Peewee is the oldest critic of Rafa I can remember and never quite got fickle about that, I chose that sentence for number 0 in terms of trust.

Of course, then taking it as a dig is an interpretation of the readers (others can consider it a mild joke), but no offence intended.

Oh OK, I genuinely did't know what it was about.

by **Sir Roger** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:06 pm

bigmick wrote:It's a 3, and that's being generous. Letting him sign a new contract will be a disaster for the club IMHO. It took me an awful long time to see the light, too long infact as I allowed my loyalty to excuse numerous failings. It wasn't even as if I didn't see the failings, I pointed them out on here but still chose to ignore the body of evidence.

Since I've finally admitted what my head has been telling me for some time, and forgot that the heart says Liverpool fans stays loyal to every manager, it has become clearer by the day. This Rafalution is no well planned, meticulous assault on the summit of English football, it is a shambolic rag tag of mish mashed policies, skewed signings, ridiculous team selections, farcical sales in the market without replacements. There has been blame mongering at every turn, finger pointing "it wasn't me it was him, I never wanted him honest", cringeworthy childishness and small mannery has become the order of the day. Self obbsession has ruled the roost at the expense of the club, culminating in advising players not to sign contracts until he's sorted out his own "deal". How many fans of other teams in England would rejoice if they woke up tomorrow morning to find Rafa Benitez as their new manager? Not many in my opinion. He has become an embarassment to the club, and I don't like the man anymore as well as the football manager.

Sorry, but you did ask.

Spot on, specifically with regards to the "Rafalution" which has failed spectacularly.
I voted 2 myself as I think he has shown beyond doubt that he does not have what it takes for a prolonged challenge for the Premiership title. But to be honest two cups in five years is abysmal anyway if we want to be taken seriously as the top team
I am actually saddened writing this and reading what others say. I honestly did think he could be the one to restore us to our rightful place. But he has consistently made wrong choices throughout his tenure. For me the writing was on the wall with the last CL final when he played zenden and left crouch out. Insane is a word that springs to mind.
I think the biggest problem most people have is the fear of who will replace him and what it will do to the team.
But I agree with your point about loyalty. How long do we stay loyal to someone who clearly isnt up to the job just because hes our manager?

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:39 am

Sir Roger wrote:I think the biggest problem most people have is the fear of who will replace him and what it will do to the team.
But I agree with your point about loyalty. How long do we stay loyal to someone who clearly isnt up to the job just because hes our manager?

There will always be the fear of the unknown regardless who the manager is. Some may subscribe to thinking we're doing ok, had a run at the title and "it could be worse". I watched an interesting interview on ITV4 with Ranieri yesterday, I fully sympathise with him for doing more in ONE season towards a title bid than Rafa has in five, and not getting another chance. Chelsea changed the manager who finished second to the "invincibles", and it paid off. I'm not suggesting we'll be the same, it's just I can't see Rafa bridging the gap on the basis of time. Maybe if he had a massive transfer budget, but maybe not given his record. Maybe he might sign one or two inspirational signings to make the difference, maybe he'll just sign more N'Goggs, Babels, Dossenas, Degens etc

Loyalty should be first and foremost to the CLUB, LIVERPOOL FC. If you stay loyal to a manager for some noble notion that you should be, it's the "done thing", then you may hold up progress for some ideal. I read a teletext letter from a bitter, texting in asking someone to give Rafa a ten year contract - says it all. He's had long enough to prove capable of challenging for the title - he's now just clutching at straws like a man (who should be) coming to the end of his time in charge.

There's always next season, a Champions League final or even a win might persuade a few to give him another chance. He's blaming everything except his own failings, the team is some way off a title challenge and no closer to one than it was three years ago despite signing arguably the best striker in the league. Maybe he read that and decided that was his excuse in waiting, Torres' absence. But did he not claim when Keane was sold that we didn't need a replacement? Changed his tune fast in a month didn't he................

by **destro** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:43 am

10, Legend

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:16 am

here is the letter, written 30th October 2005

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rafa,

I hope you get to read this letter.

Liverpool Football Club has been my life since I went to my first game in 1973; I have seen more ups than downs so I am more fortunate that our younger supporters who have never seen the title won, I am starting to get concerned that they will never see this.

You have been our manager for one full season now, and a few months of your second season, no putting aside the fantastic Champions League victory what have you actually achieved?

In the league you had us closer on points to the bottom than to the top, you failed to qualify for the Champions League on league position, and in fact we were beaten by our city rivals to that spot, a team that is now proving its true value at the foot of the Premier League. You had us go at the FA cup in an embarrassing fashion.

We are trusting you with something that is most precious to us, to us its not a job, to us it is a passion, its a religion and to a lot of us its possibly the most important thing we have. Our happiness is based on what we achieve in football, we were all able to gloat over the summer about being Champions of Europe again but the pleasure in that is now being taken away. I wanted to prove to people we deserved to win it, that we were a class outfit, to be proud watching us perform in the new season, to see attacking football, to see goals. You are not allowing us to see this. You are stifling any creativity we may have, you are failing to provide us with the opportunities to score goals with your negative tactics, you need to switch this before its too late and we fall too far behind.

Why are we worrying so much about the opposition, let them worry about us, let them look at our team sheet and know that will be on the back foot all game, also stop with the long ball, its pointless, all its doing is giving the opposition the chance to come back at us again.

Also why are you persisting with players who obviously dont cut it? When will Garcia realize that his flicks dont work, when will he realize we play in red and pass it to his own players. When will Traore realize that he has to concentrate for the whole game (or when will you realize that we have two players more effective than him in that position)?
When will Reina come for the ball and collect it? When will you realize that when we are 3-1 down we need to score at least two goals to get anything from the game and the best way to do this is to put forwards on the pitch (not just give them 10 minutes, whatever your feelings the club comes first and Cisse should have been given some opportunity earlier, not just grudgingly given 10 minutes). There are so many other things that I can say to you Rafa but I have a job and need to get back to that.

Now I will never confess to knowing a tenth of what you know about football, but even I can see that it is not working, even I can see now is the time to change tactics and at least give us a chance to score goals and steamroller teams. Just try it, you may like it.
I said it at the start of the letter, this team is precious to us and like anything precious we dont want it broken. I would never dream of buying a fast luxury car and then only using 3 gears, please stop doing that to my club.

thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------

:;):

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:20 am

I gave him 1 out of 8.....including his overall ability to manage and sustain a serious title challenge.

by **bigmick** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:27 am

peewee wrote:here is the letter, written 30th October 2005

-------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Rafa,

I hope you get to read this letter.

Liverpool Football Club has been my life since I went to my first game in 1973; I have seen more ups than downs so I am more fortunate that our younger supporters who have never seen the title won, I am starting to get concerned that they will never see this.

You have been our manager for one full season now, and a few months of your second season, no putting aside the fantastic Champions League victory what have you actually achieved?

In the league you had us closer on points to the bottom than to the top, you failed to qualify for the Champions League on league position, and in fact we were beaten by our city rivals to that spot, a team that is now proving its true value at the foot of the Premier League. You had us go at the FA cup in an embarrassing fashion.

We are trusting you with something that is most precious to us, to us its not a job, to us it is a passion, its a religion and to a lot of us its possibly the most important thing we have. Our happiness is based on what we achieve in football, we were all able to gloat over the summer about being Champions of Europe again but the pleasure in that is now being taken away. I wanted to prove to people we deserved to win it, that we were a class outfit, to be proud watching us perform in the new season, to see attacking football, to see goals. You are not allowing us to see this. You are stifling any creativity we may have, you are failing to provide us with the opportunities to score goals with your negative tactics, you need to switch this before its too late and we fall too far behind.

Why are we worrying so much about the opposition, let them worry about us, let them look at our team sheet and know that will be on the back foot all game, also stop with the long ball, its pointless, all its doing is giving the opposition the chance to come back at us again.

Also why are you persisting with players who obviously dont cut it? When will Garcia realize that his flicks dont work, when will he realize we play in red and pass it to his own players. When will Traore realize that he has to concentrate for the whole game (or when will you realize that we have two players more effective than him in that position)?
When will Reina come for the ball and collect it? When will you realize that when we are 3-1 down we need to score at least two goals to get anything from the game and the best way to do this is to put forwards on the pitch (not just give them 10 minutes, whatever your feelings the club comes first and Cisse should have been given some opportunity earlier, not just grudgingly given 10 minutes). There are so many other things that I can say to you Rafa but I have a job and need to get back to that.

Now I will never confess to knowing a tenth of what you know about football, but even I can see that it is not working, even I can see now is the time to change tactics and at least give us a chance to score goals and steamroller teams. Just try it, you may like it.
I said it at the start of the letter, this team is precious to us and like anything precious we dont want it broken. I would never dream of buying a fast luxury car and then only using 3 gears, please stop doing that to my club.

thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------

When they called you "pathetic", they might have meant "prophetic".

Had you not referred to lil' Luis Garcia, one of my favourite players, I'd give you a five out of five for being on the money. Unfortunately though, the Garcia reference (which I note was pre the "trickster and ball waster" thread) and a small slag off of Reina, gets you only a 4 out of 5. Not bad though considering it was four years ago.

I think we can take it as a given that Rafa either doesn't read this forum, or doesn't overly respect your opinion Peewee 'cos he ain't changed much

On the other hand, I think his "seeing of the light" period was entirely due to my robust arguments on the subject of rotation. It's just a shame that he concluded around the same time as everyone else that I was actually a bit of a c... and decided tyo go through his "dimmer switch period" just to spite me :laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:30 am

mick

we are not bad for a pair of idiots who know nothing about football as we don't have our coaching badges or manage a top team

by **Roger Red Hat** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:46 am

I've just read/watched Rafa's little talk on BBC website and he's absolutley spot on when he claims that the injuries to Torres this season has cost us. If we'd of had the goals that torres got last season we'd of p1ssed this league. So, by that reckoning he's saying we're 1 top quality striker away from been a title winning team.

You've gotta give him another season in charge so he can put that theory into practice. In summer if Rafa signs a big player, no fk it, a WORLD CLASS player to play up front then we know his intensions are good. Then we'll see how close we get next season.

have faith people - I have all confidence he'll pull it off next season. :;):

I've had a sign.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:53 am

is this the sign lee

by **LegBarnes** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:53 am

Lee J wrote:I've just read/watched Rafa's little talk on BBC website and he's absolutley spot on when he claims that the injuries to Torres this season has cost us. If we'd of had the goals that torres got last season we'd of p1ssed this league. So, by that reckoning he's saying we're 1 top quality striker away from been a title winning team.

You've gotta give him another season in charge so he can put that theory into practice. In summer if Rafa signs a big player, no fk it, a WORLD CLASS player to play up front then we know his intensions are good. Then we'll see how close we get next season.

have faith people - I have all confidence he'll pull it off next season. I've had a sign.

But will he sign a top class forward or buy another kuyt ?

He is gonna look for any thing now to get him self a 5 year deal who wouldn't that meens if he :censored:

up next season and gets sacked he gonna cost us another 20 mil we just a bank account to rafa thats all he don't care about us the fans or even our players.

by **whylongball?** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:58 am

2 for me. As much as i like his tactical sense he has not shown anything that can convince me he would win the league. Becoming more and more like Houllier, no consistency, fail to motivate players, make a lot of mistakes transfer market to me(quantity over quality).

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:05 am

When they called you "pathetic", they might have meant "prophetic".

It's easy to be prophetic. You stance against any manager, and these days, he'll be eventually sacked. One, Two, Three, Four, or Five years, and you'll be right.

When the new manager arrives I only have to say he won't the league. If he wins it I'll be too happy to care about the abuse. But since winning the league is difficult, probably I'll be able to say at some point I was right. Of course I won't do that.

Anyhow, I don't have problems to deliver internet I was right medals. :laugh:

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:13 am

well for something thats obviously not important to you why comment on it when its already 3 and a half years old?

oh yeah that's right, to try and take the p!ss, you have a habit of doing this and then playing all innocent afterwards, in fact its an insult to posters on here that you think the buy it.

so to sum up, what I said over three years ago was spot on, you tried to take the p!ss and come up short again, whoda thunk it

all this from the guy who said torres wouldnt cut it in england and he needs too many chances to score, seems its not that easy to be prophetic after all :laugh:

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