Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:13 pm

Big Niall wrote:The 1988 team was great but it was just one season, when Arsenal knicked the title in 1989 it was a sign that George Grahams team was becoming top dog with a back five that would go for a decade.

While the 1990 team won the title, they were poor champions (remember the 4-3 loss to palace?) and in 1991 Arsenal lost just one game in the league on their way to title.Leeds and Manure were also now as good as the team that had been so mighty a few years earlier.

By the time he left, we were sliding and the team ageing.

You can hate Ferguson if you want but imagine how good we'd have been if he had got the job in 1986.

We were sliding but still 4 points clear at the top of the league. Liverpool began the 1990-91 season in emphatic fashion. 14 wins, 3 draws and 1 loss in the first 18 games, 43 goals scored against 15.

He won 3 titles (never finished lower than second and losing one title on a last min goal)

Won 2 FA cups (losing a third to Wimbledon)

And 5 Charity shields.

In 5 years !

I honestly believe if Kenny had stayed we would be looking and saying Ferguson who ?

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Liverpool 9 Crystal Palace 0
Nicol 7, 90
McMahon 15
Rush 45
Gillespie 56
Beardsley 61
Aldridge 67 (pen)
Barnes 79
Hysen 82

Liverpool : Grobbelaar, Hysen, Burrows, Nicol, Whelan, Hansen, Beardsley (Aldridge 66), Gillespie, Rush, Barnes, McMahon (Molby 79)

http://www.liverweb.org.uk/report.asp?rec_id=4812

A lot of that team was coming towards the end of their careers. I can't say for sure, but I don't recall many of them in the FA Cup final of 1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_FA_Cup_Final

Liverpool : GROBBELAAR, Wright, BURROWS, NICOL, Thomas, Jones, McManaman, RUSH, MOLBY, Saunders, Houghton

Five players from the side that crushed palace just 21 months earlier. Grobbelaar, Nicol, Rush and Molby can't have continued that much longer, I think Rushie went on until about 95/96, I think Rob Jones retired pretty early as well

I think the hat-trick I'm thinking of was Staunton, can't remember the match though.

by **Big Niall** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:17 pm

Do you think that the team Souness took over with an ageing Rush,Whelan,Nicol,Molby etc was as good as the team that Kenny took over in 1986 which had just been in the european cup final?

No doubt, Souness was terrible, but he took over a worse team than Kenny did, which is why I think Kenny wasn't a good manager.

Look at Paisley taking over a very good team in 1974 from Shanks and then improved it.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:30 pm

Kenny had to cope with no money from CL, and the after effects of two major disasters off the field. World class players ending their careers (Hansen never played 1990/91 ) yet we were still top of the league and I have no doubts we would have won it again.

He had huge restrictions placed on him at the time as spending was restricted, not only by the loss of European revenue, but because money had to be set aside to begin the developement of all seater stadia after Hillsbrough.

Liverpools cash flow was so bad at times that he had already had to sell Rush to ease the problem. So to blame Dalglish for the fact that Souness bought poorly is not really correct in my opinion.

As for the old team myth, most of the players were 30 or under. With only Hansen and Grobbellar(who played on for another 7 years ) in the ancient category.

Barnes was 28, Beardsley just turned 30, Nichol 30, Houghton 29, McMahon 29, Molby 27, Whelan 29, Rush 29.

With young stars like Mcmanaman and Redknapp starting to be introduced.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:32 pm

Big Niall wrote:Do you think that the team Souness took over with an ageing Rush,Whelan,Nicol,Molby etc was as good as the team that Kenny took over in 1986 which had just been in the european cup final?

No doubt, Souness was terrible, but he took over a worse team than Kenny did, which is why I think Kenny wasn't a good manager.

Look at Paisley taking over a very good team in 1974 from Shanks and then improved it.

That's why I think Kenny's resignation came at the wrong time, but you're still only regarding what happened when Kenny took over. He didn't have Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton, Aldridge and Staunton (£20k!) in the side so he didn't just flog Fagan's side until it had nothing left, he did build it.

And if it was so bl**dy easy to win the double then how come none of the legendary predecessors did it? Until the Premiership made a mockery of doubles, they were very difficult to achieve. I reckon we suffered more than most at the hands of Heysel, the bitters might have won a European Cup but I reckon we might have done the treble or at least won it with the 1988 side. Arsenal may have stolen the league off us in the dying throes of the 88/89 season, but we had to deal with another tragedy and were pipped on goals scored.

THE "DOUBLE"

1889 Preston NE
1897 A Villa
1961 Tottenham
1971 Arsenal
1986 Liverpool

Thereafter the mancs and Arsenal did five doubles in less than a decade and the achievement lost a lot of its prestige. I'm not sure you can really credit the early ones too much either, early days of the league etc So three teams did it in about 90 years, THAT made it some achievement. Only ONE Liverpool manager even managed it, just because he took over a great side doesn't make him a poor manager

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:16 pm

Continuing the discussion :- The top ten European cup/CL managers.

1. Bob Paisley
Paisley, the former Liverpool manager who led the team for nine seasons, secured the club their first European Cup, and remains the only coach in history to take his side to three European Cup wins (1977, 1978 and 1981).

2. José Villalonga Llorente
Llorente won the European Cup twice, both times with Real Madrid. He was the first manager to win the trophy, in 1956, and at 36 years and 184 days, he remains to date the youngest coach to win the competition.

3. Brian Clough
The Nottingham Forest manager won the European Cup twice, in 1979 and 1980 – a feat that is considered by many to be one of the most impressive in the competition's history considering the status of the side he was managing.

4. Helenio Herrera
Herrera won the competition twice with Inter Milan, in 1964 and 1965. He was one of the first managers to call the support of the "12th man", and left a lasting legacy: when fans look back to the club in the 1960s they still refer to it as Herrera's Inter.

5. Sir Alex Ferguson
Ferguson is generally considered one of the finest managers of all time. The Manchester United manager has won the Champions League twice, the first of which was in 1999, and most recently in 2008. Ferguson could join Paisley as the only managers to win the competition on more than on two occasions.

6. Vicente del Bosque
Del Bosque coached Real Madrid from 1999–2003, the most successful spell in the club's modern history. He won the Champions League with Real twice, and finished in the last four of the competition every season he was in charge.

7. Arrigo Sacchi
Before becoming a football coach Sacchi was a shoe salesman, making his consecutive wins in 1989 and 1990 with AC Milan all the more impressive. He was appointed manager of Real Madrid as a result, but was not as successful in Spain.

8. Carlo Ancelotti
The Italian Ferguson, Ancelotti has won the Champions League twice, in 2003 and 2007, on both occasions with AC Milan. He is also one of only five men to have won the competition as both a player and manager.

9. Ottmar Hitzfeld and Ernst Happel
Hitzfeld, or 'der General' as he is sometimes known, and Happel are the only managers in the competition's history to win with two different teams. Hitzfeld guided Borussia Dortmund to the title in 1997, and Bayern Munich in 2001, while Happel took Feyenoord to the trophy in 1970 and Hamburg in 1983.

10. Luis Carniglia
This Argentine took Real Madrid to the final of the European Cup twice, winning in both 1958, with a 3-2 win over AC Milan, and in 1959, with a 2-0 win over Reims. However, he was sacked for leaving Ferenc Puskás out of the side in the win over the French side.

Presumably Rafa would have been in there or at least fighting for a place in there if we had won in Athens.

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:17 pm

s@int wrote:Liverpools cash flow was so bad at times that he had already had to sell Rush to ease the problem. So to blame Dalglish for the fact that Souness bought poorly is not really correct in my opinion.

As for the old team myth, most of the players were 30 or under. With only Hansen and Grobbellar(who played on for another 7 years ) in the ancient category.

Didn't we sell him for £2.7m and buy him back for £2.9m? Souness did buy poorly, his buying mirrored fergie's in his early time in England, poor buys and too many from Scotland/with SPL connections.

"old team myth" - who said that? I said retiring or injured, I believe a lot of our players around 1990 were in one category or the other. Perhaps for some, like Nicol, I think of them as ending their careers although they went on to clubs like Sheff Wed and I think Nicol played in the US. I think players like Rush, Barnes and Grobbelaar went on too long in our side, maybe we wanted to revive their prime instead of moving on. I think it's not unfair to say the 1990 side was not in its prime, although I think Souness made a mess of what he inherited. I think I'll have a bash at working out who he inherited. Wasn't sure when Beardsley left, but reading the official Liverpool website profile SOUNESS sold him to the bitters for a poxy £1m. Also "allowed" Hysen to leave and "following the arrival of Graeme Souness as boss in 1991 McMahon's days at Anfield were numbered."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/beardsley/
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/hysen/
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/mcmahon/

Souness Inheritance 1990/91

Grobbelaar (81-94)
Hooper (85-93)

Staunton (86-91)
Burrows (88-93)
Hysen (89-91)
Nicol (82-94)
Venison (86-92)
Hansen (77-91)
Ablett (86-92)
Tanner (88-93)

Molby (84-95)
Houghton (87-92)
Barnes (87-95)
McMahon (85-91)
Whelan (80-94)
Hutchison (91-94)
Redknapp (91-02)
Marsh (88-93)

Rush (88-95)
Beardsley (87-91)
Rosenthal (90-94)

Think that's about the size of it. Like I said, a few of them were past their prime, too many through injury. Hansen retired a week after Kenny left. Some footballers play for 20 years, but their best years are usually gone after 10+ - especially if at one club. Not a bad starting squad, quite clear from liverpoolfc.tv that Souness made a few poor choices in buying and selling

Just flicking through the past players section, I can see a developing Souness XI of James, Wright, Ruddock, Saunders, Stewart, Thomas, Walters and some others that make the team he inherited look awesome - was it Kenny's fault Souness picked such ordinary footballers as "fit to wear the red of Liverpool" ?

I feel most sorry for, and plenty of respect for, Roy Evans, took over the shambles that Souness left him and managed to finish 3rd (twice) and 4th (twice) Souness took over a better squad and didn't manage that, his greatest achievements were beating a second rate Sunderland in the FA Cup and perhaps surviving in the job as long as he did. Is there a player Souness signed that could go down as a legend?

Answers on a postcard..............

Compare that to the squad left Souness by Kenny and I think you'll see that a few legends were signed by Kenny, re-signed in the case of Rush. Probably a mistake to sell of Aldo, I think Souness selling Beardsley was a bigger mistake than any Kenny made - bar maybe quitting

by **Owzat** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:30 pm

s@int wrote:Continuing the discussion :- The top ten European cup/CL managers.

Where do you get these from? You really should cite your sources

I had a look around quickly for comparable top tens, this BBC one made me laugh

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/football_focus/6094334.stm

Final results:
1. Paisley: 28%
2. Clough: 27%
3. Stein: 18%
4. Fergie: 15%
5. Shankly: 6%
6. Nicholson: 4%
7. Busby: 1%
8. Chapman: 1%

4th November 2006 and fergie was only fourth, either the mancs were too busy cranking their handles over their beloved treble videos, or people have more sense than you'd credit from reading forum views and pages on 606.

Another one :-

Our top 10.
1. Herbert Chapman
2. Alex Ferguson
3. Bob Paisley
4. Jock Stein
5. Matt Busby
6. Bill Shankly
7. Brian Clough
8. Bill Nicholson
9. Stan Cullis
10. Alf Ramsey

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/managers/story/0,,535519,00.html

That was done in 2001, places fergie higher than Shanks and Sir Bob although, if you think about it, the mancs were in a good run in 2001 while they were in a slump in 2006 (no league title for three seasons) Now THAT's what I call Interesting, the influence of time - when it was done, who you ask etc. IF fergie was a better manager than Sir Bob in 2001, surely nothing changed in Sir Bob's favour since!?!? Not the same source of course, but it is quite astounding that votes on BBC saw Herbert Chapman pick up 1% and finish 8th while the ObserverGuardian list put him top.

I think lists are best described as inclining to one side!

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:38 pm

Owzat wrote:
s@int wrote:Liverpools cash flow was so bad at times that he had already had to sell Rush to ease the problem. So to blame Dalglish for the fact that Souness bought poorly is not really correct in my opinion.

As for the old team myth, most of the players were 30 or under. With only Hansen and Grobbellar(who played on for another 7 years ) in the ancient category.

Didn't we sell him for £2.7m and buy him back for £2.9m? Souness did buy poorly, his buying mirrored fergie's in his early time in England, poor buys and too many from Scotland/with SPL connections.

"old team myth" - who said that? I said retiring or injured, I believe a lot of our players around 1990 were in one category or the other. Perhaps for some, like Nicol, I think of them as ending their careers although they went on to clubs like Sheff Wed and I think Nicol played in the US. I think players like Rush, Barnes and Grobbelaar went on too long in our side, maybe we wanted to revive their prime instead of moving on. I think it's not unfair to say the 1990 side was not in its prime, although I think Souness made a mess of what he inherited. I think I'll have a bash at working out who he inherited. Wasn't sure when Beardsley left, but reading the official Liverpool website profile SOUNESS sold him to the bitters for a poxy £1m. Also "allowed" Hysen to leave and "following the arrival of Graeme Souness as boss in 1991 McMahon's days at Anfield were numbered."

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/beardsley/
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/hysen/
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/team/past_players/players/mcmahon/

Souness Inheritance 1990/91

Grobbelaar (81-94)
Hooper (85-93)

Staunton (86-91)
Burrows (88-93)
Hysen (89-91)
Nicol (82-94)
Venison (86-92)
Hansen (77-91)
Ablett (86-92)
Tanner (88-93)

Molby (84-95)
Houghton (87-92)
Barnes (87-95)
McMahon (85-91)
Whelan (80-94)
Hutchison (91-94)
Redknapp (91-02)
Marsh (88-93)

Rush (88-95)
Beardsley (87-91)
Rosenthal (90-94)

Think that's about the size of it. Like I said, a few of them were past their prime, too many through injury. Hansen retired a week after Kenny left. Some footballers play for 20 years, but their best years are usually gone after 10+ - especially if at one club. Not a bad starting squad, quite clear from liverpoolfc.tv that Souness made a few poor choices in buying and selling

Just flicking through the past players section, I can see a developing Souness XI of James, Wright, Ruddock, Saunders, Stewart, Thomas, Walters and some others that make the team he inherited look awesome - was it Kenny's fault Souness picked such ordinary footballers as "fit to wear the red of Liverpool" ?

I feel most sorry for, and plenty of respect for, Roy Evans, took over the shambles that Souness left him and managed to finish 3rd (twice) and 4th (twice) Souness took over a better squad and didn't manage that, his greatest achievements were beating a second rate Sunderland in the FA Cup and perhaps surviving in the job as long as he did. Is there a player Souness signed that could go down as a legend?

Answers on a postcard..............

Compare that to the squad left Souness by Kenny and I think you'll see that a few legends were signed by Kenny, re-signed in the case of Rush. Probably a mistake to sell of Aldo, I think Souness selling Beardsley was a bigger mistake than any Kenny made - bar maybe quitting

I think we sold Rush for around £3million (£2.9) and bought him back for £2million.

I think we sold a lot of the better players too soon, Beardsley played very well for Everton and Newcastle for years.

Houghton and Mcmahon again were sold too soon by Souness and without buying players of similar ability to replace them.

Gerrard is 29 Carra is 31, we bought Keane at 29 and were after Barry of a similar age, so age is also reletive to the individuals ability.

I think part of the problem under Souness is he wanted to change too much too soon, both on and off the field. The experienced players had won leagues and cups eating what they wanted and playing five a side in training so would obviously have been a little reluctant to accept a different diet and new training ideas. Which may perhaps explain why so many of them were quickly moved on.

The second part of the problem was the p!ss poor buys that Souness made. (Sadly I agreed with most of them at the time :down:

) and the number of serious injuries the players got in training. (Surely down to Souness)

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:45 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:I wonder what Rafa needs to do to make the list?

Top of my head ....

1)Win the premier league

2)Be a team-player type of manager... (ie...doesn't cut of his nose to spit his face when the CEO signs players like Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Agger, Keane, Babel...etc).

3)Signs players who are suited to the english league (Strong, Pacy players with good 1st touch).

4)Buys quality instead of quantity (Makes use of the millions he get every season to buy 1st team players to improve the team... Not to load the squad with average players).

5)Doesn't bite the hand the feeds him (ie....don't do interviews that puts the club in a bad light...don't make use of his "friends" to pass inaccurate news of clubs being interested to sign him and put himself above the club)

6)Great Man-mangement skills ..what differentiates a manager from a run of a mill coach is that he has to have this.... He has to have this trait. Players must give their 100% every match for their manager.

7)A good media personality - .He has to give awesome interviews & Quotes...Yapping to the press in monotonous voice which puts a caffin-loaded person to sleep is a strict 'NO-NO'. ......

Are you saying Rafa has none of these qualities?

I didn't make that statement but I agree with it. I would say, as I always have said, that Rafa is a good coach but a very average manager. His biggest failing is in man-management and signings oh and negative tactics, plus leaking news too serve his OWN, not Liverpool's, interests. Having said that he is bloody brilliant in Europe, I have to give him that.

Not that brilliant
He lost us the CL final in Athens

Oh, well, excuse the f*ck out of him for getting us there.

Sorry

Thanks for getting us there, getting our hopes up and losing to a far inferior AC milan than when we won it because of insane team selection and tactics

Is that better?

Spoken like a true glory hunter.

Have to laugh at the "far inferior" Milan jib there. Total bollox, and teams and managers, as well as pundits, always make the same mistake of assuming such a thing, which I can never understand why considering the plethora of absolute legends they had playing for them in most positions. Oh, but they are old. I forgot. Fergie must have assumed the same thing.

Should we have beat them in '05? No f*cking way. But we did. That's football. But I still blame Benitez for forming us into a side capable of actually getting to such finals. He's cruel that fella. Making us dream and believe in such things.

by **heimdall** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:05 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:I wonder what Rafa needs to do to make the list?

Top of my head ....

1)Win the premier league

2)Be a team-player type of manager... (ie...doesn't cut of his nose to spit his face when the CEO signs players like Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Agger, Keane, Babel...etc).

3)Signs players who are suited to the english league (Strong, Pacy players with good 1st touch).

4)Buys quality instead of quantity (Makes use of the millions he get every season to buy 1st team players to improve the team... Not to load the squad with average players).

5)Doesn't bite the hand the feeds him (ie....don't do interviews that puts the club in a bad light...don't make use of his "friends" to pass inaccurate news of clubs being interested to sign him and put himself above the club)

6)Great Man-mangement skills ..what differentiates a manager from a run of a mill coach is that he has to have this.... He has to have this trait. Players must give their 100% every match for their manager.

7)A good media personality - .He has to give awesome interviews & Quotes...Yapping to the press in monotonous voice which puts a caffin-loaded person to sleep is a strict 'NO-NO'. ......

Are you saying Rafa has none of these qualities?

I didn't make that statement but I agree with it. I would say, as I always have said, that Rafa is a good coach but a very average manager. His biggest failing is in man-management and signings oh and negative tactics, plus leaking news too serve his OWN, not Liverpool's, interests. Having said that he is bloody brilliant in Europe, I have to give him that.

Not that brilliant
He lost us the CL final in Athens

Oh, well, excuse the f*ck out of him for getting us there.

Sorry

Thanks for getting us there, getting our hopes up and losing to a far inferior AC milan than when we won it because of insane team selection and tactics

Is that better?

Spoken like a true glory hunter.

Have to laugh at the "far inferior" Milan jib there. Total bollox, and teams and managers, as well as pundits, always make the same mistake of assuming such a thing, which I can never understand why considering the plethora of absolute legends they had playing for them in most positions. Oh, but they are old. I forgot. Fergie must have assumed the same thing.

Should we have beat them in '05? No f*cking way. But we did. That's football. But I still blame Benitez for forming us into a side capable of actually getting to such finals. He's cruel that fella. Making us dream and believe in such things.

Yeah that is cruel of Rafa, I agree.

Can you explain this term glory hunter, it's allways confused me why someone who is a glory hunter would support us and not Arsenal, Man Utd or the Chavs. Make it good this time Emerald.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:11 pm

Owzat wrote:Where do you get these from? You really should cite your sources

Sorry mate, I got this latest one from the Telegraph

LINK

The first one (TOP TEN GREATEST MANAGERS ) came from the Daily Mail.

LINK

by **Sir Roger** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:29 pm

Owzat wrote:
s@int wrote:To be fair to Kenny, he had to cope with losing the best strike partnership Liverpool have ever had (Himself and Rush) and he brought in a whole new forward line and still managed to win the League and get to the CUP FINAL. He then went to Blackburn and did an amazing job of taking a team that had won nothing for Donkeys years to the title.

He also was begining to introduce the stars of tomorrow when he left Liverpool. Mcmanaman for example made his first appearance for Liverpool under Kenny.

A lot of the team was retiring or injured. He brought us Barnes, Beardsley and Aldridge for I think it was less than a million each - absolute bargains. And didn't he bring in Houghton and Staunton as well?

While he may have taken over a strong team, was it not also like the Arsenal double winning side of 1998 - coming to the end of it's heyday and needing replacing? It isn't easy to replace quality CBs like Lawro and Hansen, even the BBC woud be hard pressed to find a better pair! I think the biggest criticism I could aim at Kenny was walking out when the club needed him most, at that stage of the transition that any other manager might make a mess of - and the next one did! Ever since we've had strengths and weaknesses but not the complete package. We've had solid CB pairings and excellent strike pairings, but at the same time............. And we've not had quality out wide since Barnes in his pomp, we've had plenty of good players but not quite enough to make true "the whole is greater than the sum of its parts" ie principally good players don't necessarily make a good team

I agree
Especially with the part about walking out
That hurt me for years especially because of Sounesses reign. But I understand and appreciate why Kenny did it and let it go a while back.
Its just fate sometimes that steps in and changes everything.
The fickle finger of fate...

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:33 pm

heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:I wonder what Rafa needs to do to make the list?

Top of my head ....

1)Win the premier league

2)Be a team-player type of manager... (ie...doesn't cut of his nose to spit his face when the CEO signs players like Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Agger, Keane, Babel...etc).

3)Signs players who are suited to the english league (Strong, Pacy players with good 1st touch).

4)Buys quality instead of quantity (Makes use of the millions he get every season to buy 1st team players to improve the team... Not to load the squad with average players).

5)Doesn't bite the hand the feeds him (ie....don't do interviews that puts the club in a bad light...don't make use of his "friends" to pass inaccurate news of clubs being interested to sign him and put himself above the club)

6)Great Man-mangement skills ..what differentiates a manager from a run of a mill coach is that he has to have this.... He has to have this trait. Players must give their 100% every match for their manager.

7)A good media personality - .He has to give awesome interviews & Quotes...Yapping to the press in monotonous voice which puts a caffin-loaded person to sleep is a strict 'NO-NO'. ......

Are you saying Rafa has none of these qualities?

I didn't make that statement but I agree with it. I would say, as I always have said, that Rafa is a good coach but a very average manager. His biggest failing is in man-management and signings oh and negative tactics, plus leaking news too serve his OWN, not Liverpool's, interests. Having said that he is bloody brilliant in Europe, I have to give him that.

Not that brilliant
He lost us the CL final in Athens

Oh, well, excuse the f*ck out of him for getting us there.

Sorry

Thanks for getting us there, getting our hopes up and losing to a far inferior AC milan than when we won it because of insane team selection and tactics

Is that better?

Spoken like a true glory hunter.

Have to laugh at the "far inferior" Milan jib there. Total bollox, and teams and managers, as well as pundits, always make the same mistake of assuming such a thing, which I can never understand why considering the plethora of absolute legends they had playing for them in most positions. Oh, but they are old. I forgot. Fergie must have assumed the same thing.

Should we have beat them in '05? No f*cking way. But we did. That's football. But I still blame Benitez for forming us into a side capable of actually getting to such finals. He's cruel that fella. Making us dream and believe in such things.

Yeah that is cruel of Rafa, I agree.

Can you explain this term glory hunter, it's allways confused me why someone who is a glory hunter would support us and not Arsenal, Man Utd or the Chavs. Make it good this time Emerald.

We're sh*te unless we win a bit of silverware, and it's either the players/manager's fault, and then our rivals are looked upon and envied and they secretly wish we were that good, or that they could jump ship. It's like telling your ma to f*ck off at Christmas because she didn't get you that Mechano set you always wanted, but instead got something totally useless. But f*ck the thought of it, or that there is always next year. Complete lack of faith. Complete lack of respect. Good enough for ye, Heimdall? Or should I be more poetic?

I like how credit is often deflected because in the minds of certain individuals, hopes were built, and they were let down. That's life, and it happens. I too was disappointed. Sometimes you just have to applaud the effort. You don't always get what you want. No point crying about it.

by **heimdall** » Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:37 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
heimdall wrote:I wonder what Rafa needs to do to make the list?

Top of my head ....

1)Win the premier league

2)Be a team-player type of manager... (ie...doesn't cut of his nose to spit his face when the CEO signs players like Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant, Agger, Keane, Babel...etc).

3)Signs players who are suited to the english league (Strong, Pacy players with good 1st touch).

4)Buys quality instead of quantity (Makes use of the millions he get every season to buy 1st team players to improve the team... Not to load the squad with average players).

5)Doesn't bite the hand the feeds him (ie....don't do interviews that puts the club in a bad light...don't make use of his "friends" to pass inaccurate news of clubs being interested to sign him and put himself above the club)

6)Great Man-mangement skills ..what differentiates a manager from a run of a mill coach is that he has to have this.... He has to have this trait. Players must give their 100% every match for their manager.

7)A good media personality - .He has to give awesome interviews & Quotes...Yapping to the press in monotonous voice which puts a caffin-loaded person to sleep is a strict 'NO-NO'. ......

Are you saying Rafa has none of these qualities?

I didn't make that statement but I agree with it. I would say, as I always have said, that Rafa is a good coach but a very average manager. His biggest failing is in man-management and signings oh and negative tactics, plus leaking news too serve his OWN, not Liverpool's, interests. Having said that he is bloody brilliant in Europe, I have to give him that.

Not that brilliant
He lost us the CL final in Athens

Oh, well, excuse the f*ck out of him for getting us there.

Sorry

Thanks for getting us there, getting our hopes up and losing to a far inferior AC milan than when we won it because of insane team selection and tactics

Is that better?

Spoken like a true glory hunter.

Have to laugh at the "far inferior" Milan jib there. Total bollox, and teams and managers, as well as pundits, always make the same mistake of assuming such a thing, which I can never understand why considering the plethora of absolute legends they had playing for them in most positions. Oh, but they are old. I forgot. Fergie must have assumed the same thing.

Should we have beat them in '05? No f*cking way. But we did. That's football. But I still blame Benitez for forming us into a side capable of actually getting to such finals. He's cruel that fella. Making us dream and believe in such things.

Yeah that is cruel of Rafa, I agree.

Can you explain this term glory hunter, it's allways confused me why someone who is a glory hunter would support us and not Arsenal, Man Utd or the Chavs. Make it good this time Emerald.

We're sh*te unless we win a bit of silverware, and it's either the players/manager's fault, and then our rivals are looked upon and envied and they secretly wish we were that good, or that they could jump ship. It's like telling your ma to f*ck off at Christmas because she didn't get you that Mechano set you always wanted, but instead got something totally useless. But f*ck the thought of it, or that there is always next year. Complete lack of faith. Complete lack of respect. Good enough for ye, Heimdall? Or should I be more poetic?

I like how credit is often deflected because in the minds of certain individuals, hopes were built, and they were let down. That's life, and it happens. I too was disappointed. Sometimes you just have to applaud the effort. You don't always get what you want. No point crying about it.

But if you see something wrong do you not want to make it better?

BTW Thanks for giving me your definition of a glory hunter, I don't feel as put out by it now, although I don't think that was your intention. :wwww

By your definition a glory hunter is someone who wants their team to be the best they can be, so yes I guess I am a glory hunter, I want my team to bask in glory. What is so wrong with that btw?

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