Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:56 pm

As always, numbers tell what the guy that is manipulating them want to say. Tomkins is no different.

The difference with Tomkins and a London journo fúckwit, is that Tomkins is a Liverpool fan, and the London journo isn't and is always looking for problems in Liverpool. Today it may be rotation, tomorrow the spending from a specific view.

The truth will be somewhere in the middle. Probably Liverpool do not have the spending power of Man U or Chelsea, and probably Rafa has made some mistakes along some very spot on signings.

Normally Tomkins' articles are dismissed as ridiculous and shít, but they don't seem to me his numbers more biased than the ones coming from the negative side. It would be nice to see Tomkins' numbers debated, that is, say that he talks bóllocks if you have to, but explain why.

by **112-1077774096** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:56 pm

that second table is very interesting s@int

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:57 pm

GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:The risk of missing CL is too great to take - you cannot miss out on CL no matter what - it is essential for the club .

No Its a must for rafa the club would have done well not being in it for 1 season.

A. T&T might have had to sell up faster
B. we could have focused on league purely 1 season
C. 1 season with less games can do wonders for a players motivation.

Sorry but no -

No team cant afford to not be in the CLs -

1. it helps attract the big players - the top ones
2. The money you get from the tournament enables you to pay for the big players
3. Being in the tournament enables you to keep your best players.
4. Not being in the CL good for motivation ? you really think our players would of been motivated by playing less games while other teams and players play on the big stage every week ? They all want to play in the CL and if they didnt get it with us they would look elsewhere .

No team ? villa seem to be doing ok and so are alot of others stupid comment very stupid.

Also since when has it been hard to bring players to liverpool we are massive club also I seen us not in CL before and no player wanted to leave cos of it.

Villa doing well ? yes they are in the top 4 at the moment but how many world class players have they managed to attract - and i mean world class - players like torres and gerrard .

Liverpool not in the CL is a disaster we cannot afford ever.

Mate its not all about world class players alot of world class player couldn't hack it in the prem its about bring in players who can hack it in the prem and villa have alot of those type of players.

Fact is rafa hasn't really spent poorly he just bought alot of players that are more suited to CL football then prem football and it shows week by week.

by **GYBS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:59 pm

With the second table most of Chelsea players were bought in that first season of maureen - most of the big buys anyway - next season it was frees like ballack and schevchenko but in the first season he spent well over a hundred million on players .

by **tubby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:00 pm

Fecking hell here we go. :laugh:

GYBC vs LegBarnes round 2

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:01 pm

GYBS wrote:Think saint your looking at it in exactly the way Tomkins is saying - just looking at the figures without going a bit deeper into it . Chelsea spent nearly 600 mil yet why it there squad only worth 200 mil ? Man Utd 400 mil yet squad only worth 190 mil ish ? . No sqaud will be worth what teams spend . it just cant happen as that would mena you would need every single player there that you bought over a period .

1 Chelsea £538,690,000 £185,750,000 £352,940,000 £20,761,176
2 Manchester United £398,150,000 £190,565,000 £207,585,000 £12,210,882
3 Liverpool £380,115,000 £177,670,000 £202,445,000 £11,908,529

So what he is saying is that WE have spent £380million and got a squad worth £127million while the mancs have spent £398million and got a squad worth £226million. So we have spent £18million less and got a squad worth £100million less.

Good thinking GYBS that REALLY shows where the problem lies.

by **GYBS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:01 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:The risk of missing CL is too great to take - you cannot miss out on CL no matter what - it is essential for the club .

No Its a must for rafa the club would have done well not being in it for 1 season.

A. T&T might have had to sell up faster
B. we could have focused on league purely 1 season
C. 1 season with less games can do wonders for a players motivation.

Sorry but no -

No team cant afford to not be in the CLs -

1. it helps attract the big players - the top ones
2. The money you get from the tournament enables you to pay for the big players
3. Being in the tournament enables you to keep your best players.
4. Not being in the CL good for motivation ? you really think our players would of been motivated by playing less games while other teams and players play on the big stage every week ? They all want to play in the CL and if they didnt get it with us they would look elsewhere .

No team ? villa seem to be doing ok and so are alot of others stupid comment very stupid.

Also since when has it been hard to bring players to liverpool we are massive club also I seen us not in CL before and no player wanted to leave cos of it.

Villa doing well ? yes they are in the top 4 at the moment but how many world class players have they managed to attract - and i mean world class - players like torres and gerrard .

Liverpool not in the CL is a disaster we cannot afford ever.

Mate its not all about world class players alot of world class player couldn't hack it in the prem its about bring in players who can hack it in the prem and villa have alot of those type of players.

Fact is rafa hasn't really spent poorly he just bought alot of players that are more suited to CL football then prem football and it shows week by week.

Villa have managed for a good part of this season to be around 4th place - they havent won anything or achieved anything yet and it is possible they will just find themselves out of the 4th spot and into the UEFA cup once again . So yes they have prem players - prem players that get them into 5th spot . I think we all want more than that .

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:03 pm

GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:The risk of missing CL is too great to take - you cannot miss out on CL no matter what - it is essential for the club .

No Its a must for rafa the club would have done well not being in it for 1 season.

A. T&T might have had to sell up faster
B. we could have focused on league purely 1 season
C. 1 season with less games can do wonders for a players motivation.

Sorry but no -

No team cant afford to not be in the CLs -

1. it helps attract the big players - the top ones
2. The money you get from the tournament enables you to pay for the big players
3. Being in the tournament enables you to keep your best players.
4. Not being in the CL good for motivation ? you really think our players would of been motivated by playing less games while other teams and players play on the big stage every week ? They all want to play in the CL and if they didnt get it with us they would look elsewhere .

No team ? villa seem to be doing ok and so are alot of others stupid comment very stupid.

Also since when has it been hard to bring players to liverpool we are massive club also I seen us not in CL before and no player wanted to leave cos of it.

Villa doing well ? yes they are in the top 4 at the moment but how many world class players have they managed to attract - and i mean world class - players like torres and gerrard .

Liverpool not in the CL is a disaster we cannot afford ever.

Mate its not all about world class players alot of world class player couldn't hack it in the prem its about bring in players who can hack it in the prem and villa have alot of those type of players.

Fact is rafa hasn't really spent poorly he just bought alot of players that are more suited to CL football then prem football and it shows week by week.

MY ar.se is fat and my balls ring like the big ben

er ok what you on GYBS. :laugh:

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:07 pm

bavlondon wrote:Fecking hell here we go. GYBC vs LegBarnes round 2

every time i make a statement he is round on me like a lepper on jesus ffs !

by **GYBS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:08 pm

s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Think saint your looking at it in exactly the way Tomkins is saying - just looking at the figures without going a bit deeper into it . Chelsea spent nearly 600 mil yet why it there squad only worth 200 mil ? Man Utd 400 mil yet squad only worth 190 mil ish ? . No sqaud will be worth what teams spend . it just cant happen as that would mena you would need every single player there that you bought over a period .

1 Chelsea £538,690,000 £185,750,000 £352,940,000 £20,761,176
2 Manchester United £398,150,000 £190,565,000 £207,585,000 £12,210,882
3 Liverpool £380,115,000 £177,670,000 £202,445,000 £11,908,529

So what he is saying is that WE have spent £380million and got a squad worth £127million while the mancs have spent £398million and got a squad worth £226million. So we have spent £18million less and got a squad worth £100million less.

Good thinking GYBS that REALLY shows where the problem lies.

How many players have they bought with that money thou -

We had players like fowler macca and owen through the 90s we didnt have t buy but the rest we did . tha mancs had who - Neville brothers,Giggs,Scholes,Beckham,Butt plus a few others so they just added to the squad where as Souness GH and Evans had to buy more players to add to the quality we had with youngesters - then later on we had gerrard and carra where as the mancs still had the others but just kept adding and adding with top class quality where as GH bought a lot of cr@p during last two seasons and they had to be replaced - so while Man utd could just spend the money to add the odd 20 odd mil player here and there we had to totally rebuild and entire squad bar a couple of players . Use the figures show we have spent a bit of money near the likes of the mancs but im sure if we look a bit deeper than just figures it helps understand the story a bit more . Our money is stretched a bit more than say Chelsea and the Mancs

Yes No one is saying Rafa hasnt wasted a bit of money on some poor signings - everyone knows that and cant deny that but it is always hard to know which players will suit the prem - there isnt many players most of us thought - why the feck are we getting him he would never do well in the prem . Where as Taggert has blown a lot of flops as well but is happy just to ship them out and replace them with another 20 mil player .

by **GYBS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:11 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
GYBS wrote:The risk of missing CL is too great to take - you cannot miss out on CL no matter what - it is essential for the club .

No Its a must for rafa the club would have done well not being in it for 1 season.

A. T&T might have had to sell up faster
B. we could have focused on league purely 1 season
C. 1 season with less games can do wonders for a players motivation.

Sorry but no -

No team cant afford to not be in the CLs -

1. it helps attract the big players - the top ones
2. The money you get from the tournament enables you to pay for the big players
3. Being in the tournament enables you to keep your best players.
4. Not being in the CL good for motivation ? you really think our players would of been motivated by playing less games while other teams and players play on the big stage every week ? They all want to play in the CL and if they didnt get it with us they would look elsewhere .

No team ? villa seem to be doing ok and so are alot of others stupid comment very stupid.

Also since when has it been hard to bring players to liverpool we are massive club also I seen us not in CL before and no player wanted to leave cos of it.

Villa doing well ? yes they are in the top 4 at the moment but how many world class players have they managed to attract - and i mean world class - players like torres and gerrard .

Liverpool not in the CL is a disaster we cannot afford ever.

Mate its not all about world class players alot of world class player couldn't hack it in the prem its about bring in players who can hack it in the prem and villa have alot of those type of players.

Fact is rafa hasn't really spent poorly he just bought alot of players that are more suited to CL football then prem football and it shows week by week.

MY ar.se is fat and my balls ring like the big ben

er ok what you on GYBS.

If you cant be bothered to debate football sensibly then fu ck off to a tellytubbies forum and debate there . Some people are trying to actually discuss this subject without having to put up with infantile antics from yourself and statements of pure and total nonsense - you did it enough yesterday and ruined two threads - lets give this one a chance shall we . Dont bother replying - thank you .

by **LegBarnes** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:15 pm

Can we all try to forucs on what players rafa has bought and what players was worth buying and what wasted.

Also be good to look at what players are good in CL and what prem then we can finaly see what rafas plans are in full.

For me he looks like he has bought for CL please prove me other wise.

by **tubby** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:15 pm

Question: Did we spend all the money we received for winning the CL in 2004/05? Just curious thats all.

by **GYBS** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:17 pm

bavlondon wrote:Question: Did we spend all the money we received for winning the CL in 2004/05? Just curious thats all.

I guess we will never know where the money went from the CL win - i understand some money was still owed for the cisse deal and we bought players like crouch sissoko in the summer that year - trying to think of who else we bought that summer .

by **account deleted by request** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:21 pm

GYBS wrote:
s@int wrote:
GYBS wrote:Think saint your looking at it in exactly the way Tomkins is saying - just looking at the figures without going a bit deeper into it . Chelsea spent nearly 600 mil yet why it there squad only worth 200 mil ? Man Utd 400 mil yet squad only worth 190 mil ish ? . No sqaud will be worth what teams spend . it just cant happen as that would mena you would need every single player there that you bought over a period .

1 Chelsea £538,690,000 £185,750,000 £352,940,000 £20,761,176
2 Manchester United £398,150,000 £190,565,000 £207,585,000 £12,210,882
3 Liverpool £380,115,000 £177,670,000 £202,445,000 £11,908,529

So what he is saying is that WE have spent £380million and got a squad worth £127million while the mancs have spent £398million and got a squad worth £226million. So we have spent £18million less and got a squad worth £100million less.

Good thinking GYBS that REALLY shows where the problem lies.

How many players have they bought with that money thou -

We had players like fowler macca and owen through the 90s we didnt have t buy but the rest we did . tha mancs had who - Neville brothers,Giggs,Scholes,Beckham,Butt plus a few others so they just added to the squad where as Souness GH and Evans had to buy more players to add to the quality we had with youngesters - then later on we had gerrard and carra where as the mancs still had the others but just kept adding and adding with top class quality where as GH bought a lot of cr@p during last two seasons and they had to be replaced - so while Man utd could just spend the money to add the odd 20 odd mil player here and there we had to totally rebuild and entire squad bar a couple of players . Use the figures show we have spent a bit of money near the likes of the mancs but im sure if we look a bit deeper than just figures it helps understand the story a bit more . Our money is stretched a bit more than say Chelsea and the Mancs

Yes No one is saying Rafa hasnt wasted a bit of money on some poor signings - everyone knows that and cant deny that but it is always hard to know which players will suit the prem - there isnt many players most of us thought - why the feck are we getting him he would never do well in the prem . Where as Taggert has blown a lot of flops as well but is happy just to ship them out and replace them with another 20 mil player .

We had just as many players through in the nineties as the mancs, the only difference is they kept most of theirs while we sold most of ours, and when they sold they tended to get top dollar, while we usually finished up getting ripped off.

The same could be said for Souness mate. I thought he made some great buys....... the FACT that they turned out cr@p was just as disappointing then as now.

I thought Stewart, Clough etc would be perfect for Liverpool unfortunately the truth was far far different.

The top and bottom of the whole debate is we have had a lot of money and we have not made the best use of it. The mancs and Chelsea have had a lot of money and have the TITLES to prove it.

No one expects Rafa to work without money, he has had £100million in the last two seasons. There does come a time when you have to ask are we getting value for money though. When we have no recognised second striker , no right back, no replacement for the left wing and are playing a striker as our right winger Questions will be asked about the so called strength of our squad and if we actually plan our purchases or not.

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