Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:03 am

bigmick wrote:
john craig wrote:
bigmick wrote:Even talking about potential signings is disrespectful to the players we already have.

Is talking about new managers disrespectful to the manager then?

John you're quoting one of my GYBS impressions mate. You know the ones...

"But how do you know that's what he said? how do you know that, were you there, have you read it, have you asked him? Who is? You? who said? Well who's better?

I was just kidding, I didn't mean it literally Read the whole exchange and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Only winding ye up Mick... and it worked!

by **bigmick** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:27 am

john craig wrote:
bigmick wrote:
john craig wrote:
bigmick wrote:Even talking about potential signings is disrespectful to the players we already have.

Is talking about new managers disrespectful to the manager then?

John you're quoting one of my GYBS impressions mate. You know the ones...

"But how do you know that's what he said? how do you know that, were you there, have you read it, have you asked him? Who is? You? who said? Well who's better?

I was just kidding, I didn't mean it literally Read the whole exchange and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Only winding ye up Mick... and it worked!

Yeah you got me mate, perhaps I'm a bit more edgy these days such is the amount of flak flying around.

by **Madmax** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:35 am

Missed fecking some sitters...
Played like donkey dirk and joined in with the talented brainless babel... Thank god lacklustre lucas didnt play.. Well we always could reply on nippy ngog!

by **Owzat** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:48 am

Why does anyone think the next player Rafa signs is going to be the next Fernando Torres when Rafa has so far managed to sign one striker worthy of LFC? If we got rid of everyone but Reina, Alonso, Carra, Gerrard and Torres then it wouldn't be the end of the world, FIVE players out of a squad around five times that in size. That's not to say the rest should all be got rid of, some are good players even if a few are a little over-rated by some on here, but I wouldn't be too worried if any of the rest left. Of those five Carra and Gerrard were already here, so Rafa has spent £190m+ and we've around five world class players to show for it including two that cost nothing.

by **Effes** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:41 am

Owzat wrote:Why does anyone think the next player Rafa signs is going to be the next Fernando Torres when Rafa has so far managed to sign one striker worthy of LFC? If we got rid of everyone but Reina, Alonso, Carra, Gerrard and Torres then it wouldn't be the end of the world, FIVE players out of a squad around five times that in size. That's not to say the rest should all be got rid of, some are good players even if a few are a little over-rated by some on here, but I wouldn't be too worried if any of the rest left. Of those five Carra and Gerrard were already here, so Rafa has spent £190m+ and we've around five world class players to show for it including two that cost nothing.

Net spend is between £91M and £104M - that's the figure we should be looking at mate.

by **Toffeehater** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:47 am

With some more quality from that amount spent mate , at least 2 more world class players

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:33 am

Effes wrote:
Owzat wrote:Why does anyone think the next player Rafa signs is going to be the next Fernando Torres when Rafa has so far managed to sign one striker worthy of LFC? If we got rid of everyone but Reina, Alonso, Carra, Gerrard and Torres then it wouldn't be the end of the world, FIVE players out of a squad around five times that in size. That's not to say the rest should all be got rid of, some are good players even if a few are a little over-rated by some on here, but I wouldn't be too worried if any of the rest left. Of those five Carra and Gerrard were already here, so Rafa has spent £190m+ and we've around five world class players to show for it including two that cost nothing.

Net spend is between £91M and £104M - that's the figure we should be looking at mate.

net spend means nothing mate as i have said many times, if i buy a car for 20000 and sell my bike for 10000 i still have a car worth 20000, its not suddenly worth 10000. same for torres, he is not suddenly a 10 million quid player because we sold players for 10 million quid halving his value.

i think away to do this would be to look at our first team squad, lets say 11 on field players and 7 subs and add up their value, and then lets do the same with stoke, fulham, wigan, everton etc and see their value and then lets discuss how relevant the value actually is. i am sure the mancs and chavs would be higher but we beat both of them this season making the argument moot really, just like the fact that we cant beat stoke showing that the cost of the squad really doesn't come into it as the be all and end all of how a team should perform.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:37 am

Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:Any sane person (or dare I say it anyone who has "a clue") would know that as of now, we could really do with one of Milan Baros, Djibril Cisse, Robbie Keane, Craig Bellamy or Peter Crouch as they are ALL better strikers than ANY of our stand ins for Torres.

Add Pongolle and Luis garcia to your list Mick.

I hope in the summer we bring in atleast two attacking players or a play maker someone with a bit of trickery with that spark that makes you excited.
We only have Gerrard & Torres that have you on the edge of your seat. or who can change a game its not enough.

good point Ciggy. but depressing really

i would gladly trade ngog, kuyt and babel for Garcia, Crouch and Bellamy. and el zhar for Pongolle.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:19 am

peewee wrote:
Effes wrote:
Owzat wrote:Why does anyone think the next player Rafa signs is going to be the next Fernando Torres when Rafa has so far managed to sign one striker worthy of LFC? If we got rid of everyone but Reina, Alonso, Carra, Gerrard and Torres then it wouldn't be the end of the world, FIVE players out of a squad around five times that in size. That's not to say the rest should all be got rid of, some are good players even if a few are a little over-rated by some on here, but I wouldn't be too worried if any of the rest left. Of those five Carra and Gerrard were already here, so Rafa has spent £190m+ and we've around five world class players to show for it including two that cost nothing.

Net spend is between £91M and £104M - that's the figure we should be looking at mate.

net spend means nothing mate as i have said many times, if i buy a car for 20000 and sell my bike for 10000 i still have a car worth 20000, its not suddenly worth 10000. same for torres, he is not suddenly a 10 million quid player because we sold players for 10 million quid halving his value.

i think away to do this would be to look at our first team squad, lets say 11 on field players and 7 subs and add up their value, and then lets do the same with stoke, fulham, wigan, everton etc and see their value and then lets discuss how relevant the value actually is. i am sure the mancs and chavs would be higher but we beat both of them this season making the argument moot really, just like the fact that we cant beat stoke showing that the cost of the squad really doesn't come into it as the be all and end all of how a team should perform.

Even if you do buy into all that "net" ballacks, something some like to do because it makes Rafa's wastefulness look less wasteful, you have to ask is our squad improved by £91m or whatever the "net spend" is?

fergie sold Beckham for £25m, did anyone add that £25m to his squad value BEFORE he was sold? Doubt it. Plus you can sell players at a loss or profit, but it's the players you put out that win matches which is why I (usually) stick to the cost of the squad for comparison and our current squad value is around £155m.

EDIT : that doesn't include any value for Gerrard or Carragher, so the squad is probably worth/cost/value in excess of £200m. Not a lot for a team that's drawn half its last sixteen Premiership games..............

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:22 am

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:Any sane person (or dare I say it anyone who has "a clue") would know that as of now, we could really do with one of Milan Baros, Djibril Cisse, Robbie Keane, Craig Bellamy or Peter Crouch as they are ALL better strikers than ANY of our stand ins for Torres.

Add Pongolle and Luis garcia to your list Mick.

I hope in the summer we bring in atleast two attacking players or a play maker someone with a bit of trickery with that spark that makes you excited.
We only have Gerrard & Torres that have you on the edge of your seat. or who can change a game its not enough.

good point Ciggy. but depressing really
i would gladly trade ngog, kuyt and babel for Garcia, Crouch and Bellamy. and el zhar for Pongolle.

I think advocates of Rafa should take note that he's got worse back-up strikers than he's had when he took over and at any time in his reign. Is this the man to take us to a league title? Someone thinks Kuyt, Babel, El Zhar and N'Gog will win us many games in Torres' absence?

by **The_Rock** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:52 am

Baros and Cisse anytime of the day than what we have now (apart from torres of course).

Baros played the lone strike role pretty well in the run up to the champions league win. I shudder to think what would have happen if morientes wasn't cup-tied and picked instead of Baros (like in the league cup final where we lost).

Cisse scored around 20 goals from right midfield.....and he wasn't good enough. But look who replaced him ?

Actually when u really look at houllier's purchases...... Benitez isn't that much better than him.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:23 pm

Owzat wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:Any sane person (or dare I say it anyone who has "a clue") would know that as of now, we could really do with one of Milan Baros, Djibril Cisse, Robbie Keane, Craig Bellamy or Peter Crouch as they are ALL better strikers than ANY of our stand ins for Torres.

Add Pongolle and Luis garcia to your list Mick.

I hope in the summer we bring in atleast two attacking players or a play maker someone with a bit of trickery with that spark that makes you excited.
We only have Gerrard & Torres that have you on the edge of your seat. or who can change a game its not enough.

good point Ciggy. but depressing really
i would gladly trade ngog, kuyt and babel for Garcia, Crouch and Bellamy. and el zhar for Pongolle.

I think advocates of Rafa should take note that he's got worse back-up strikers than he's had when he took over and at any time in his reign. Is this the man to take us to a league title? Someone thinks Kuyt, Babel, El Zhar and N'Gog will win us many games in Torres' absence?

but Rafa had Crouch, Ponggole, Garcia, Bellamy, Fowler, Baros, Keane and Cisse while he was manager. he sold them. and brought in Voronin, kuyt, Ngog, Torres, and i may have missed out 1 or 2 but not worth mentioning anyway. other then Torres, none are better than those sold.

by **Owzat** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:06 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Owzat wrote:
maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Ciggy wrote:
bigmick wrote:Any sane person (or dare I say it anyone who has "a clue") would know that as of now, we could really do with one of Milan Baros, Djibril Cisse, Robbie Keane, Craig Bellamy or Peter Crouch as they are ALL better strikers than ANY of our stand ins for Torres.

Add Pongolle and Luis garcia to your list Mick.

I hope in the summer we bring in atleast two attacking players or a play maker someone with a bit of trickery with that spark that makes you excited.
We only have Gerrard & Torres that have you on the edge of your seat. or who can change a game its not enough.

good point Ciggy. but depressing really
i would gladly trade ngog, kuyt and babel for Garcia, Crouch and Bellamy. and el zhar for Pongolle.

I think advocates of Rafa should take note that he's got worse back-up strikers than he's had when he took over and at any time in his reign. Is this the man to take us to a league title? Someone thinks Kuyt, Babel, El Zhar and N'Gog will win us many games in Torres' absence?

but Rafa had Crouch, Ponggole, Garcia, Bellamy, Fowler, Baros, Keane and Cisse while he was manager. he sold them. and brought in Voronin, kuyt, Ngog, Torres, and i may have missed out 1 or 2 but not worth mentioning anyway. other then Torres, none are better than those sold.

Pongolle, Baros and Cisse weren't Rafa signings, I think that went against them and I think both weren't given a fair go. I'm not sure Pongolle would have been the player Houllier thought he would be, Cisse has shown glimpses at Sunderland of what we could have had/kept. Baros had some positive points, but I don't think his sale was a bad move.

Maybe Rafa simply doesn't have patience with strikers, the rest were his signings and some were gone nearly before they'd arrived. It would be a bit harsh to say Kuyt is poorer than all those named, he has been played out of position rather than given a prolonged chance in a striker role, but how many Rafa signed strikers have been given a prolonged chance? Crouch was here what - three seasons?

Rafa Striker Signings - Seasons At Anfield

3.0 Luis Garcia (04/05-06/07)
3.0 Crouch (05/06-07/08)
2.5 Kuyt (06/07-08/09
2.0 Voronin (07/08) - out on loan 08/09
1.5 Morientes (04/05-05/06)
1.5 Fowler (05/06-06/07)
1.5 Torres (07/08-08/09)
1.5 Babel (07/08-08/09)
1.0 Bellamy (06/07)
0.5 N'Gog (08/09)
0.5 Keane (08/09) - sold already

Not sure I'd term Luis Garcia as strictly speaking a striker, same goes for Babel as neither was always played there. I've put Voronin down as two seasons at the club even though he's not actually playing this season here. Kuyt has played about a season as half-striker, half-winger.

That's 11 strikers/striker options signed by Rafa, average length of stay 1.5 seasons (some are still here, if not all used as strikers)

by **devaney** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:46 am

Ok as a fan of Kuyt and somebody, before the last three matches, who was beginning to lose the faith I think credit should be given where it is due. Fantastic goal against Villa and some excellent work recently. I just hope he can keep this form going. His early season goals really helped when we were coming back from behind.

by **stmichael** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:38 pm

Thought he was excellent the other day.

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