Liverpool FC Forum

by **andy_g** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:28 am

peewee wrote:I wish I had his patience

we all do

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:29 am

andy_g wrote:
peewee wrote:I wish I had his patience

we all do

by **lakes10** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:31 am

Ciggy wrote:Well I think he is leaving at the end of the season and wants to go out with a bang and win the CL be great for his CV what his destination will be only he knows himself but my guess would be Italy.

He is still young enough and does want to manage RM one day but I just dont think he would go there in the summer.

Another thing this summer at liverpool is going to see one of the toughest times we have ever had this is just speculation but I can see rafa gone with a load of players, whether he takes players with him or either they are sold off, or not good enough. The banks want their money back in June, we will either have a new owner or go into administration.

A new manager will come in with his ideas and plans, new backroom staff, new players then the 5 year plan starts again how it will all work out is anyones guess but its going to get nasty front & back pages of every paper filled with sh!te.

I dont have next weeks lottery numbers but things are about to go from bad to worst.

So should Sammy go (as my post on the other page)
If we get a new manager at the end of the football what damage can the old manager do before he leaves, he could start to set up deals for players to the new club he is going to.
If you just walk in and sack him then theres more chance he will not have the time to work on their minds and get them to leave.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:34 am

The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Capello won them the league then got the sack that tell you all you need to know because they didnt like what they where watching.

I have been saying this for a few months...finally the hottest pro-rafa member agrees with me ....

Its not agreeing with you Rock I was talking about Capello, but what I will say is Can we play you every week to the Barca's, and Real Madrids of this world, why we are successfull against these teams is because of rafa's tactics and analysis, but he does the same when coming up against the likes of the Stoke's and Boro's.

Rafa would win hands down over Garreth Southgate's and Tony Pulis's of the world, he worries so much about what the dross of the league are going to do when he should simply say to our players, these are sh!te now go and tw@t them all over the park.

9 out of 10 times we would win, but his downfall is showing to much respect to the chasing packs when our team should be beating them easily.

He gives us great nights in europe and is the best around in the CL but why he still doesnt understand the prem is anyones guess.

by **Effes** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:35 am

Rafa would NEVER play Skrtel as a right back in the Champs League.

Make of that what you will.

by **Ciggy** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:36 am

andy_g wrote:can i just ask why so many posters are getting their knickers in a twist about bigmick?

Ive no idea .......

by **Effes** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:37 am

andy_g wrote:can i just ask why so many posters are getting their knickers in a twist about bigmick?

the general standard of the forum is dumbing down spectacularly as far as football discussion is concerned and too many are more interested in prolonging petty squabbles above anything else. so a long standing poster, who is among the most thoughtful and well respected there is on here, makes a concerted effort to ensure that there is some quality football based debate to be had. and lots be honest, there is plenty to discuss at the moment. but rather than try and enjoy the discussions a number of small minds decide that the poster concerned is only trying to bolster his ego or further some kind of ulterior motive he has make digs at people.

i just don't get it. what a bunch of soft @rses there are populating this forum nowadays.

It's because they don't like what he is saying.

They don't want to hear it; because he is critical of Rafa they just lay into him and get personal.

These people get personal with anyone who is critical, calling them "not real fans" etc etc.

It's tedious.

by **bigmick** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:50 am

Well thanks v much to those who stuck a word in for me there, but to tell the truth I don't think I've had THAT much stick over the last couple of days. Last couple of weeks it got a bit much, but I think recently it's improved a bit. On the question of the "ego" thing, I guess I can see why people say it as I do start some needless threads, but I think anyone who has an ego which can be boosted by chatting on the internet to a bunch of people they've never met would be a bit sad. "Exactly" I hear you cry

, but no I don't think ego comes into it.

Ultimately though, I suppose I've been just about Rafa's harshest and most persistent critic. Those that see things from the opposite end of the spectrum to myself have had to put up with me going on about it for a few years now, so I suppose it's only natural thyey get fractious sometimes. This is particularly the case when every now and then their corner becomes impossible to defend sensibly. Instances such as buying Keane for 20 million and then selling him without a replacement leave people in a difficult spot should they wish to mount a reasonable argument. Similarly, playing Skyrtel at right back for the first time in his Liverpool career while Carragher plays centre half needs a fair amount of imagination from the defence council, so I don't blame people for getting ersey, what else are they supposed to do, where else are they supposed to go?

This thread though as Peewee says was something which cropped up elsewhere. Although he is a main player in proceedings, it's not about Kuyt it's about our policy visa vis signing on existing players. Although many obviously disagree, I think it's an absolutely scandalous way to carry on by the manager, and something tells me there's more to be revealed on this. As such, and as it was something new and completely out of left field, I thought it deserved a thread. Many people were actually asking for a thread to be started. The Kuyt thread is 107 pages long as it is, I don't think it does any huge harm to have a new place to talk about this.

Anyway, that's why I did it so there you go.

by **Bam** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:01 am

andy_g wrote:can i just ask why so many posters are getting their knickers in a twist about bigmick?

the general standard of the forum is dumbing down spectacularly as far as football discussion is concerned and too many are more interested in prolonging petty squabbles above anything else. so a long standing poster, who is among the most thoughtful and well respected there is on here, makes a concerted effort to ensure that there is some quality football based debate to be had. and lots be honest, there is plenty to discuss at the moment. but rather than try and enjoy the discussions a number of small minds decide that the poster concerned is only trying to bolster his ego or further some kind of ulterior motive he has make digs at people.

i just don't get it. what a bunch of soft @rses there are populating this forum nowadays.

Probably because Mick has never come out and said Rafa's time is up in his book. Before then he used to debate with what I'd percieve as his cybernet mates, discussing his concerns in certain areas regarding Rafa. While his friends enjoyed the debate to an extent. But I've noticed ever since Mick has tied his colours to the mast, he's come in for some pretty rude exchanges. His matey's have got the 'ump and the tones in their posts arent so debatable anymore, more like knarky.

He also posted a Mourinho thread in Prem discussion to get a bit of controversial discussion going. Of course his old counterparts couldnt hold their tongue and continued their new found rude tone with him.

This isnt Rafa LFC here we're supporting or Alonso FC, its Liverpool FC and as soon as some people realise that the better.

by **The_Rock** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:03 am

lakes10 wrote:The reporter was then asked how would today result go down with Hick, he said that Hick come to the club after seeing us in the CL and that he know that is were the money is, if Rafa keeps his side in the top flight and in the last set of the CL then Hicks will be happy,He said (something like this)Hicks understands that football is a world wide thing, he did not know about Real apart from seeing them in the CL, he did not know where they were in their own home table but know they were a big name club in the CL.

I think and i am shocked that i am going to say this, I understand why Rafa has been fixed on the CL since the new owners took over, i dont think they care about us in the Prem (apart from the big games) aslong as we do well in the CL and it put on Live TV in america they are happy. Rafa understands this and might be doing just what is asked of him, Focus on the CL and the other big games in the Pre, but for us fans we are not happy that during that time we will see Man U take 19th and 20th.

so is Rafa just doinmg what is asked of him? well if the reporter is right then yes

Is Rafa just building a team that willonly do well in the CL? yes i think so.

Is Rafa happy that all he has to do to keep his job is to do well in the CL and beat the big Prem clubs? yes, it works very well for his own profile and back in his homeland.

I will be sad to see Sammy go but know i can see how unhappy he must be, Sammy must be trying to talk Rafa into a game plan for the Prem when Rafa is only focused on the CL.

So of the clip of Sammy at the game with his head in his hands and then with his arm over Steven Gerrard tells you a lot, Steven Gerrard has only one thing to win with Liverpool and thats the Prem, I do fear that Steven Gerrard could leave our club for a club that is fixed on winning the Prem if he thinks that our club is only ever going to be set out to be a big name in the CL.

Yes i understand that i have based a lot of what i put on a unnamed reporter in Liverpool on Radio Five Live.

Hicks is a money man....he gives a $hit about sports. The fisco he created with A-rod (spending all the money on 1 player instead of making a better team - i know i keep mentioning about quality instead of quantity...but this is taking it too far

) and in his ownership taking the rangers (Texas) to last place for four straight years....

I am pretty sure....Hicks already know that getting a long round in the champions league (not necessary to win it) is much more lucrative than winning the premierleague... So it won't be a big surpise if he indeed instruct the coach to show priority to the champions league...... The players might be aware of this...thus all their sub-par performances in the league (can't blame them...if your superior does your performance appraisal and gives more weightage to europe instead of local...what do u do ?).

And what is more baffling....is that, Benitez is standing in Hicks corner all this while.....Just shows you how "much" benitez "loves" this club.... :no

by **Salty Sock** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:06 pm

Ciggy wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Capello won them the league then got the sack that tell you all you need to know because they didnt like what they where watching.

I have been saying this for a few months...finally the hottest pro-rafa member agrees with me ....

Its not agreeing with you Rock I was talking about Capello, but what I will say is Can we play you every week to the Barca's, and Real Madrids of this world, why we are successfull against these teams is because of rafa's tactics and analysis, but he does the same when coming up against the likes of the Stoke's and Boro's.

Rafa would win hands down over Garreth Southgate's and Tony Pulis's of the world, he worries so much about what the dross of the league are going to do when he should simply say to our players, these are sh!te now go and tw@t them all over the park.

9 out of 10 times we would win, but his downfall is showing to much respect to the chasing packs when our team should be beating them easily.

He gives us great nights in europe and is the best around in the CL but why he still doesnt understand the prem is anyones guess.

I think you guys should re-read this post again.. it really does encapsulate the honest truth of Liverpool's situation.

Rafa has both good and bad quality, but the bottom line is he is a maestro tactician.. albeit, his player selection has been mockereyed.

Third guys, I don't know why people are jumping on BigMicks back.. I appreciate his perspective, and that is all it is. Perspective.. take it or leave it but give him the respect to his own opinion. He has my support..

by **The_Rock** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:13 pm

Ciggy wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Capello won them the league then got the sack that tell you all you need to know because they didnt like what they where watching.

I have been saying this for a few months...finally the hottest pro-rafa member agrees with me ....

Its not agreeing with you Rock I was talking about Capello, but what I will say is Can we play you every week to the Barca's, and Real Madrids of this world, why we are successfull against these teams is because of rafa's tactics and analysis, but he does the same when coming up against the likes of the Stoke's and Boro's.

Rafa would win hands down over Garreth Southgate's and Tony Pulis's of the world, he worries so much about what the dross of the league are going to do when he should simply say to our players, these are sh!te now go and tw@t them all over the park.

9 out of 10 times we would win, but his downfall is showing to much respect to the chasing packs when our team should be beating them easily.

He gives us great nights in europe and is the best around in the CL but why he still doesnt understand the prem is anyones guess.

Maybe i didn't explain myself properly. What i mention a number of times is that i can't see how a team like Real Madrid can go after Benitez. They sacked a better manager (Capello) becos they though he was too defensive. And he won them the league thatseason.

Benitez is way more defensive than Capello. Also how will the Real Madrid fans react when he drops robben because he does not defend like Kuyt ? What will they do when he play van horsie as a left winger like he did crouch....

So in a nutshell....don't think Real Madrid will hire Benitez unless they don't mind finishing 4th with boring football and strange signings with a small chance of winning the champions league....

by **NANNY RED** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:04 pm

Ciggy wrote:Well I think he is leaving at the end of the season and wants to go out with a bang and win the CL be great for his CV what his destination will be only he knows himself but my guess would be Italy.

He is still young enough and does want to manage RM one day but I just dont think he would go there in the summer.

Another thing this summer at liverpool is going to see one of the toughest times we have ever had this is just speculation but I can see rafa gone with a load of players, whether he takes players with him or either they are sold off, or not good enough. The banks want their money back in June, we will either have a new owner or go into administration.

A new manager will come in with his ideas and plans, new backroom staff, new players then the 5 year plan starts again how it will all work out is anyones guess but its going to get nasty front & back pages of every paper filled with sh!te.

I dont have next weeks lottery numbers but things are about to go from bad to worst.

Do you know what Cigg im chocker with the lot of it. Some days i feel like jibbing it an not goin nomore , but ive supported this team for over 40 years theve gave me joy an broke my heart, but all this carry on weather its true or not is :censored:

soul destroying, But for the sake of my insanity at the mo while Rafa is the boss he will have my support , If he wants to go then so be it same goes for any player. if he is playing in the red shirt ill back him if they wanna go an play somewhere else then they can :censored:

off, My first love is LFC, an what it stands for, an with all this carry on we are slowley being destroyed. its :censored:

heart wrenching, I admit i love Rafa because i siverly believe in him. The first manager i have really believed in since Kenny, thats the hard part for me to think he wants anything other than whats best for the club,

But as i said im really chocker with it all now, we seem to be in the papers every day for the wrong reasons. So ive made my decision if any manager or player wants to fight for the GOOD of Liverpool football club THEN THEY WILL HAVE MY SUPPORT. If Rafa or any player even Xabi :laugh:

wants to

this club over then they are better out of it.

Just not Mourinio that i couldnt take im afraid.

by **Sabre** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:24 pm

andy_g wrote:can i just ask why so many posters are getting their knickers in a twist about bigmick?

the general standard of the forum is dumbing down spectacularly as far as football discussion is concerned and too many are more interested in prolonging petty squabbles above anything else. so a long standing poster, who is among the most thoughtful and well respected there is on here, makes a concerted effort to ensure that there is some quality football based debate to be had. and lots be honest, there is plenty to discuss at the moment. but rather than try and enjoy the discussions a number of small minds decide that the poster concerned is only trying to bolster his ego or further some kind of ulterior motive he has make digs at people.

i just don't get it. what a bunch of soft @rses there are populating this forum nowadays.

I don't like when he's insulted.

However I don't believe we should have more respected posters than others, Andy.

If sarcasm is used against one, one feels the right to use sarcasm, and in this thread, you have the answer to that sarcasm of mine in a response like Peewee's, in which I'm directly insulted, with nobody saying that's out of order. That's why I laugh when I get sarky and I'm told I'm out of order.

That is, my fatal blow of sarcarsm was, "Ask Peewee if we should give Kuyt contract". The answer was proportional for sure? Is that ok because I'm not a respected member? or is it because I still think the manager might lead Liverpool to a good port? Or perhaps a soft-mind?

I'd like the right to use sarcasm against sarcasm, and "foreseeing answers" against "foreseeing answers", and "labelling posters" against "labelling posters". But it seems you have to receive all those with no answer. And that's a like asking me to play football with my two legs tied.

I find myself in a position in which no matter that you say Keane's incident has been a fiasco, and no matter you say clearly that Skrtl at Right back is a mistake, you'll still be labeled as unrealistic, Rafalite, biased and unable to face reality, if not brainwashed. Or if you go a bit lower than your post, someone will imply that if we get a bit sarky with Mick, it's because I'm of Rafa LFC or Alonso LFC .

We have to accept the likes of me or Nanny those labels, because it's normal. When Mick gets those labels, and BTW, he shows he's big enough to receive them with not too much problems, people are surprised (leaving the insults aside, again)?

But you know what Andy? the problem is not me. If it was me not being respected no problem, I go to another forum and problem solved. The problem is that posters like Leon, Igor Zidane or LFC2007 don't post much these days here neither. The problem is that many other members, long standing or not, do say there's too much negativity. So if you want to analyse why the quality of the football discussion has lowered you should look with more perspective than focusing on the stick Mick gets.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:34 pm

Ciggy wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Capello won them the league then got the sack that tell you all you need to know because they didnt like what they where watching.

I have been saying this for a few months...finally the hottest pro-rafa member agrees with me ....

Its not agreeing with you Rock I was talking about Capello, but what I will say is Can we play you every week to the Barca's, and Real Madrids of this world, why we are successfull against these teams is because of rafa's tactics and analysis, but he does the same when coming up against the likes of the Stoke's and Boro's.

Rafa would win hands down over Garreth Southgate's and Tony Pulis's of the world, he worries so much about what the dross of the league are going to do when he should simply say to our players, these are sh!te now go and tw@t them all over the park.

9 out of 10 times we would win, but his downfall is showing to much respect to the chasing packs when our team should be beating them easily.

He gives us great nights in europe and is the best around in the CL but why he still doesnt understand the prem is anyones guess.

I have said this many times
We are Liverpool and they are :censored:

Simple

Where I disagree with you is that I personally think he does understand the Premier League but its just not as important to him as showing Europe, especially the spaniards, that he is the best manager. The one that got away but will probably return.
He wont achieve this by winning the Prem because the continentals dont particularly care about who wins the Prem
Thats why he is satisfied with qualifying rather than winning
Its as plain as the nose on Thommos face
:nod

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