Liverpool FC Forum

heimdall wrote:On another point I do find it incredible how I get 2 cards for more or less feck all while Lando can stomp around the boards for ages, insulting and threatening people and creating untold flame wars as much as he wants and only very occasionally gets into trouble. There is such a huge bias in his favour and its sad because its damages this forum.

heimdall wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:

bigmick wrote:

Emerald Red wrote:Dossena - cost 7 million and is the current first choice left-back for the current world champions.

Babel - cost 11 million and had a reasonable season in his first year in the EPL, coming off the bench and scoring some important goals. Was a useful impact player. A promising talent in the under 21 Holland and Ajax youth systems. Now plays for the national team. Again, a price you'd expect to pay for "potential" talent. Unfortunately for Babel, he's not making the most of things, but that's not down to Benitez actually signing him, is it? Lazy.

Reira - cost us 8 million. Came on leaps and bounds since his first stay with City and returning to La Liga. Most marked him down as "nothing special" and were left baffled. Obviously Rafa knew a little more than some folk on here and was proven to be a reasonably successful signing so far, bar the past few games where he's looked out of sorts. Still, he was the difference to our flying start of the season. Still needs a bit of time to settle in more IMO. Hardly a dud. We needed a natural left winger, and we got one. End of.

Kuyt - cost 10 million and has easily paid that sum back handsomely. No, I'm not being sarcastic about his looks, I'm talking about the odd "vital" goal he comes up with. Put it this way, he's the reason why we have a season still left as we'd be in the Eufa right now. More than a work horse than a striker, so in that respect he can be considered a "dud" but as a player who contributes to the side, he's been a relative success, though not quite the standard we are after, but like I said, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. We need a 20+ million pound out and out world class striker, not a 10 million pound one. He is utilized for the national team as he is with ours.

Three of the four players are regulars for their respective national sides, so can you say we paid over the odds? With the exception of Babel, perhaps, no. You can't.

Add the combined total of all four players up and you get roughly 36 million for four regular international standard players. Put that into perspective with United who spent 30 million on one player (aged 29) this season, and Man City who spent almost 33 million for Robinho, and you get a sense of perspective. Or at least you should.

Edit - by the way, the fast sale of Keane should suggest that Benitez never wanted him here in the first place. Certainly not for that price.

But Emerald, if they are all as good buys as you suggest, and given the fact that we've spent a comparable amount to Man Utd during Rafa's five year tenure, how do you explain the fact (at least I assume it's a fact) that they have a better squad than us?

I'm not saying they are all good buys. Read it again. I'm saying that you expect to pay the money spent on them. We needed a squad of players. If the budget given to Rafa is restricting, you can hardly expect him to blow it on one so called reputable player who may or may not do the business. What if the said player doesn't and flops? You're left without any cover in other areas of the pitch, then people would be b*tching about Rafa's lack of signings instead of so called bad ones. Take a look at our left back situation earlier in the season. We were left short there. What if Dossena wasn't bought? We'd only have Insua for cover.

I'll rephrase: Dossena is a goat, we can all agree; Babel has bags of potential, but is wasteful; Reira is a decent left-winger. Good buy IMO; and Kuyt has proven his worth for the money spent. He was quickly recognized not to be the goal machine touted, so he's been "put to use" in other areas because he has other useful attributes that he can bring to the team. If a quality right sided player and second striker is found, no doubt Kuyt would be benched more, as I think he would still be a quality asset to the squad as a very good squad player who's energy could be used in certain scenarios coming from the bench.

I don't understand the relevance of them playing for their national teams, I'm only concerned with how well they play for LFC and I'm afraid they don't. I would much rather that instead of signing lots of players this summer Rafa had focussed on getting 2 wingers,that is all we really needed. We have to be a bit more like Arsenal and bring the youngsters through, especially if we have limited funds. Players like Darby and Insua could have come into the full back poistions, yes it would have been a bit shaky but with our two new top notch wingers it would have helped them to settle in. I have never agreed with Rafa's scatter gun approach and have always preferred the way Whiskey nose and Wenger have been far more relaxed and composed in just making a few signings every year.

Whats all this $hit about dossena being italy's 1st choice
leftback.......

1)He wasn't even picked in their european cup (2008) squad.... (maybe thats the reason why italy didn't win it...cos dossena never played )

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsocc....Id=5293

2)He has only won about 6 caps since 2007

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Dossena


3)In their last 2 friendlies...Fabio Grosso was their 1st choice...

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/match?id=256024&cc=4716

so how has he all of a sudden become italy's 1st choice LB.. ?

My take :
We should have never bought dossena....we already had :
1)Auerlio (yeah..i know he is injured a lot)....
2)Insua
3)Arbeloa could play down the left if needed.

Thats the problem with benitez.....he spends so much money on average players (quantity instead of quality)...and then keeps complaining that manure has so many "20 million pounds" players..... If he only concentrated on buying quality (and not getting rid of them 6 months later ) ..we would have quite a few more "20 million pounds" players too...


Lets take this season as example, If he hadn't bought dossena, riera, ngog, degen (i know he is free...but he should have gotten a high signing-on fee rite ?)....it would have been more than enough to get barry....but no....he decided to go "quantity-ental" and then blames parry for not signing barry...

Even the greatest striker (Rush) we ever had is questioning benitez now...... just a thought the hippies should think about...

Sabre wrote:We have a new Sudoku today, with new numbers

Our league form has shown signs of improvement in the last two seasons, but we've only really become consistent in that we are difficult to beat rather than winning enough games. Premiership Champions win around 70%+ of their games, here's Rafa's record :

04/05 44.74%
05/06 65.79%
06/07 52.63%
07/08 55.26%
08/09 57.69%

Is that improvement? It's not even close to what we need to be doing. If league titles were awarded for least defeats then he'd be in with a shout

04/05 36.84%
05/06 15.79%
06/07 27.03%
07/08 10.53%
08/09 3.85%

As you can see the first array of numbers is given a lot of importance to talk about progress, and the second array of numbers is given less importance. The point being made with this set of numbers is "Is that progress??"

But the truth is that the more victories percentage you have the better, and the less defeats you have the better, so we could define a function "Progress" P, which would be a substraction between the percentage of wins and the percentage of defeats.

That is P=V-D. It's Obvious that the more Vs you have and the less defeats you have, the more you progress in points.

This new combined array of numbers, let's see what they say.

04-05 --> 44.74-36.84=7.9
05/06 --> 65.79-15.79=50
06/07 --> 52.63-27.03=25.6
07/08 -->55.26-10.53=44.3
08/09 -->57.69-3.83=57.9

Can you believe it? A set of numbers brought by a happy clapper saying something positive about the team? Incredible, no?

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) says that the season in which we beat our league record of points had the best P indicator of the last years. Which is true.

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) also indicates that this is being our best season of the last years, and so can be read both in the league table points and the P indicator.

My indicator of progress (P=V-D) also indicates that we have made progress under Rafa.

"But Draws give less points than victories! P=V-D is not valid"!!!!

Well, then think of P2, a new function. P2=3*V-D, which reflects with accuracy how much more points give a victory than a draw.

The new indicator P2 also says we have made progress.

It's so easy to arrange a couple of numbers to say something you like. Perhaps I should do more often. But I couldn't take myself too seriously if I did. It's bóllocks.

Hey Lando, do you like my "stats"  ?

I love them Sabre. 

Sir Roger wrote:

zarababe wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:OK - for the benefit of healthy discussion, and to once again disprove this pathetic notion that I never post anything to do with football, and that I am not bright enough to debate. (With a bunch of people who would lose a battle of wits with a rottweiler! )

Here goes:

The reasons I feel that Rafa should keep his job, by Lando Griffin:

Once upon a time, there were 3 be... Hang on - let's get out of fairytale mode...


15th May 2004. Just after tea time. About 5 o'clock.

Owen has just scored in a 1-1 draw at home to Newcastle United to bring to an end the 2003-04 season with a bang even the most alert bat would miss from 2 yards. Over the course of those 38 games, we won only 16 times, drawing 12 and losing 10. We finished 4th with an average home attendance of 42,677. We went out in the 5th round of the Cup to Portsmouth, were booted out of the league cup in round 4 by Bolton at Anfield, and departed the UEFA cup at the same stage to Didier Drogba's Marsailles.

Houllier's problem was that he became too close to his players, and often allowed his heart to rule his head when making decisions about the team. He was a good man. (Even if he DID sell God.)

He walked on 24th May 2004 by mutual consent, leaving behind a World-renowned striker who had had his head turned by the bright lights of Madrid, a Captain who was disillusioned, and a squad lacking any real ability to challenge for the Micky Mouse cups, let alone the big stuff.

And then Rafa came. Before a ball was kicked in anger, he had to jet off to the other side of the World to plead with 2 players he had never met before and ask them to stay at the club and believe in him.

One did, and went on to become one of the best midfielders in the World.

The other one? Well he's currently plying his trade at a second-rate club, fighting relegation and failing to get a game for his Country, having previously been first-choice for so long.

Anyhoo...

With a relatively tight budget compared to his main rivals, Rafa made a few observations of his current squad and realised very quickly that the squad was full of under-performing slackers and punks happy to rot in the reserves as long as they received their cheques every week. He also rapidly established there were was a total lack of class in midfield. Following Josemi, who unarguably pushed Steve Finnan to become one of the best leftbacks in the Country, Rafa swooped to sign Xabi Alonso, a relative unknown in English football, who would go on to become one of the finest passers and controllers of the game in the Premiership.
Several years of playing with a nail and a whippet up front meant that the middle of the park was constantly being by-passed as the defence tw*tted long-ball after long-ball upfield in the vein hope that the nail would head it down, and the whippet would run through and score.
Rafa bought Luis Garcia, an enigmatic goalscoring attacking midfield midget who would force the defence to pass along the ground more often, and who would offer the element of the unknown to our strike force. Ranging from utterly brilliant to terrifyingly cack, this 2' imp had people choking on their pies at both ends of the stadium.

Benitez made 3 major signings in his first season, despite having lost Owen. 2004-05's results went thus:

Played 38. W17, D7, L14. We were knocked out in the 3rd round of the FA Cup away at Burnley, but we reached the league cup final, losing in extra time following a Steven Gerrard own goal.

Oh, and we also won the Champions' League in thrilling fashion, beating the most fancied teams along the way.

In 2005-06, he won the FA Cup and European Super Cup. We completely dominated the final of the World Club Championship but could not find the net, losing to a late sucker-punch from the 18' Brazilian CB who's name escapes me. Lucas? Lucil? That tw*t who plays for Benfica anyway...
We also welcomed back God. For free.

League record: W25 D7 L6.

In 2006-07, we got to another Champions' League final, and dominated throughout. Unfortunately, AC Milan got their revenge and we went home potless. Hang on - no - we won the Charity Shield, beating Chelsea.

League record: W20 D8 L10.

In 2007-08, a semi-final appearance in the Champions' League, and only the freakish Riise own-goal prevented us from riding roughshod to yet another final.
League record:

W21 D13 L4.

2008-09. Top for quite a while, beating Man Utd and Chelsea twice along the way. Currently second with 12 games to play, 7 points off Man Utd. Our highest points total at this point since the year after we last won the title, and all this despite a long-term injury to our best striker, and on-going internal disputes.
Currently awaiting a Champions' League encounter with Real Madrid having finished top of our group unbeaten.

2008-09 record so far:

P26: W15 D10 L1.

There has been progress in the style and shape of the team since Rafa's arrival. I am unapologetic in my damnation of this ridiculous trend of saying "Take the Champions' League progress out of it...". That is like saying "Take Ferguson's league titles away, and he's not good enough..." - it is pathetic, it is disrespectful and it is not going unnoticed on MY watch, let me tell you.

We drew our 10th match on Sunday against the richest club side in the World with Gerrard and Alonso missing and Torres at 70%. It was not a bad result in those circumstances.
Lapses in concentration, fluke goals, good opposition play and sheer bad luck have all contributed to those 10 draws. To suggest it's negative tactics is naive, as we have been caught out in the majority of times at set pieces or when we were on the attack.

I honestly believe that we just need a few adjustments here and there, and we will be a force to be reckoned with.

I also honestly believe that if Rafa leaves, we will be up the proverbial in a barbed-wire canoe.

ooooh top post Lando - take that the moaners and groaners.. 

If the manager gets praise for his team winning shouldnt he get stick if they dont?

Rafa won the 2005 CL and was lauded as a tactical genius
When he lost the 2007 CL shouldnt he have been called a tactical buffoon?

Sir Roger wrote:

taff wrote:Ok I understand the point but it doesnt work like that in all honesty.  In 2007 we actually looked the better team but it just didnt go our way while in 2005 they were better but shocked by the comeback

Why doesnt it work like that?
Who says so?

If he was a tactical genius boss world class top manager for winning in Istanbul why isnt he an idiotic moronic lower league useless manager for losing in Athens?

You really are a clueless bell end. 

tonyeh wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:

tonyeh wrote:People mouth off insults, because the don't have an intelligent reply to offer for an argument they don't like/want to hear.

It's that simple.

You only have to look at some of the replies on here by some people to see that they just do not have a reasoned response for their position formed in their head.

The inane ramblings of an idiot.

I don't counter dim-witted arguments as no matter where you're from, bullsh*t baffles brains.

You aren't here to learn. You aren't here to form opinions.

You're here to GIVE opinions.

Once a poster with all the intellectual agility of a carrot has made their amoeba-like mind up, all the reasoned and informed debate in the World won't change it. That is "FACT." (Said by you, no doubt, in a sort of post-counseling "I love me" way, hinting at the troubled childhood where you were shunned by those around you, only to find your one true purpose of being "The Village Idiot", meaning you would forever be tarnished with the disdainful looks of faces past, and a faint odour of rotting pilchards.)

Tell me, though, if you are able:

How do you counter; "Rafa is a c*nt and I want him sacked"?

I await your response with baited breath...

Watch yer mouth fatman...you might end up with another card.

This "The inane ramblings of an idiot"...This "
I don't counter dim-witted arguments as no matter where you're from, bullsh*t baffles brains" and this "Said by you, no doubt, in a sort of post-counseling "I love me" way, hinting at the troubled childhood where you were shunned by those around you" are prime examples of what is wrong with some people's replies on this forum.

tonyeh wrote:I'm not asking for anyone to be carded.

But starting a post with this "The inane ramblings of an idiot"...

Ooooh, I know!

I mean - it's like opening up with; "Watch yer mouth fatman...you might end up with another card", isn't it?

The state of the World today...

aCe' wrote:Rush: Rafa is not bigger than Liverpool
02:38 PM 24 February, 2009

Talking to the Liverpool Echo, Liverpool legend Ian Rush said: "Question marks over the future of Rafa Benitez have been hanging over Liverpool for far too long now.

"But the one thing that needs stressing is that no man is bigger than the club.

"This was a motto which even applied to the likes of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley and it still holds true today.

"We would love Rafa to stay of course but if he is starting to feel that maybe the club is no longer the right one for him then other options have to be examined.

"Far too much club business is being conducted in public with the speculation over the manager’s future being just one example.

"Liverpool need to get their house back in order - and soon."

Lando_Griffin wrote:

heimdall wrote:On another point I do find it incredible how I get 2 cards for more or less feck all while Lando can stomp around the boards for ages, insulting and threatening people and creating untold flame wars as much as he wants and only very occasionally gets into trouble. There is such a huge bias in his favour and its sad because its damages this forum.

Dear Heimdall,

Thank you for sharing your opinions with the World. You bring untold joy to the boards of Newkit, and I am sure I am not alone in thinking that you are the sole reason for the survival and resurrection of this fine forum.

I love you and want to have your babies.

Yours forever,

Mavis T. Blurt.

Treasurer of the "Young and Old Union for Workers in Architecture, Nature, Kilts and Environmental Regeneration." (Y.O.U. *****)

Intellectually impoverished bigot 

maypaxvobiscum wrote:

aCe' wrote:Rush: Rafa is not bigger than Liverpool
02:38 PM 24 February, 2009

Talking to the Liverpool Echo, Liverpool legend Ian Rush said: "Question marks over the future of Rafa Benitez have been hanging over Liverpool for far too long now.

"But the one thing that needs stressing is that no man is bigger than the club.

"This was a motto which even applied to the likes of Bill Shankly and Bob Paisley and it still holds true today.

"We would love Rafa to stay of course but if he is starting to feel that maybe the club is no longer the right one for him then other options have to be examined.

"Far too much club business is being conducted in public with the speculation over the manager’s future being just one example.

"Liverpool need to get their house back in order - and soon."

Rush has got it spot on there.