Liverpool FC Forum

by **parchpea** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:52 pm

If we had made so many good buys why is it that only Gerrard and Torres can win games for us. There are no others on the books that can take to that field and make a difference by opening up the opposition, not a single one. We can defend, stop teams, and play in a tactical fashion but without those two players Rafa Benitez has not recruited a single footballer capable of doing that job. This is not only why we will not win a title with him at the helm but also why no more contract offers should be drawn up. I really fear the worse if he eventually decides to accept an offer because the thought of another 5 years of his negative and ultimately second best brand of football makes me feel sick.

by **GOAT_2.0** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:54 pm

Between stay and undecided but I'm still p.issed off about yesterday so lets say undecided

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:58 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:If Benitez had had his "choice" validated in the Summer, we would have spent 18 million and swapped Finnan for Gareth Barry. I have to ask, what the hell would Barry have really added to our current squad/season?

18 Million for Gareth Barry? Me arse.

As far as I'm concerned Parry (or whoever) was absolutely correct to deny Benitez that kind of money to waste.

The fact is no manager gets every penny for every signing he wants and Benitez is no exception. Another fact is that even if he did, he'd STILL come up up short because his approach to the game is wrong from beginning to end.

You don't even know what you're talking about. Gareth Barry can either be played centrally in the middle, left back, or even left midfield. Benitez is a manager who likes players that can play in at least two positions for tactical reasons. If the deal for Barry had have went through, then I doubt people would be moaning about players like Lucas or Dessena being sh*t because they wouldn't have gotten half the games they have this season due to Barry filling in those roles. I'd take Barry over Dossena and Lucas any day of the week. Dossena would probably not even be here if Barry was signed.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Gareth Barry is not worth 18 million + defender any day of the week and it was the correct decision to say no to that.

He's Villa's captain. Has been for some time. He's also a pivotal player for them and was easily their player of the season for about three years running. It was Villa's valuation price to put us off going for him for cheaper. It didn't work. Benitez obviously seen something in him that you and I don't, after all, he is a manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world and would know these things. Was Carrick worth his 18 million valuation? Was Hargreaves worth his? Fact is, in this climate, if you want English born international players, you pay more for them.

Hmmmm...Benitez also "saw" something in Dossena and Degen too. That doesn't fill me with any confidence, like much of Mr Benitez' decisions these days.

The fact still remains that there is no way in the world that Barry is worth that money (plus Steve Finnan) and whoever said no to forwarding that money was bang on, imo.

It that kind of decision making that makes me shudder at the thought of Benitez havig full control over transfers.

Jesus Christ, have you not read any of my last posts about Dossena? Dossena has been nothing more than a cover player, and a sh*te one at that. And when has Degan played for us? One game? F*ck sake, he was a Bosman. He cost us nothing. Plus who would you rather have playing as left back or a holding player? Barry or either Lucas or Dossena? As for Finnan, he was a quality right back, but his career was ending. Better to cash in.

You're missing the point.

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:00 pm

bigmick wrote:It could be a lot worse though Eff. I had a look on RAWK yesterday, and there's no question that I'd last about three posts on there. I'd disappear under a barrage of "feck off you c..."s and get banned for the privilage as well. Now I know there are probably quite a few who wish this forum would go the same way (where I'm concerned anyway) but I cannot understand for the life of me why people get so worked up about it.

It wouldn't even be so bad if we were sweeping all before us and someone called for the managers head. You'd think they were on a wind up then, and you might get fired up. Now though, even the most ardent, loyal, faithful sopporter of the manager must surely accept that there is some foundation for legitimate debate at least? I find their animosity and open antagionism like many things in life as I get older, completely mystifying.

Such is life Mick ,the older we get the more cynicism becomes more apparent to us ,We see a new breed of supporter a more impatient animal ,one less likely to just be content with a manager who is currently fighting a tide of criticism ,and at the same time publicly engaged in a bitter dispute that rages behind closed doors .
No Mick, its not unstinting faith in the manager its just the support I have given every Liverpool manager ,and will continue to do so .
I let the dissenters do their worst ,and I continue to believe in a manager who I deem to be our future.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:01 pm

go now

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:04 pm

Undecided.

But if he is to stay, then he needs to seriously address the blatant shortcomings in his approach and methods. His current leanings are way too flawed.

If it's going to be more of the same next year though, then he should go at the end of the season.

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:07 pm

redbeergoggles wrote:
bigmick wrote:It could be a lot worse though Eff. I had a look on RAWK yesterday, and there's no question that I'd last about three posts on there. I'd disappear under a barrage of "feck off you c..."s and get banned for the privilage as well. Now I know there are probably quite a few who wish this forum would go the same way (where I'm concerned anyway) but I cannot understand for the life of me why people get so worked up about it.

It wouldn't even be so bad if we were sweeping all before us and someone called for the managers head. You'd think they were on a wind up then, and you might get fired up. Now though, even the most ardent, loyal, faithful sopporter of the manager must surely accept that there is some foundation for legitimate debate at least? I find their animosity and open antagionism like many things in life as I get older, completely mystifying.

Such is life Mick ,the older we get the more cynicism becomes more apparent to us ,We see a new breed of supporter a more impatient animal ,one less likely to just be content with a manager who is currently fighting a tide of criticism ,and at the same time publicly engaged in a bitter dispute that rages behind closed doors .
No Mick, its not unstinting faith in the manager its just the support I have given every Liverpool manager ,and will continue to do so .
I let the dissenters do their worst ,and I continue to believe in a manager who I deem to be our future.

And more pwer to yer elbow for doing it mate, fair play. Whether or not it's "unstinting support" or based on sound reasoning is by the by, it's your opinion and your entitled to it. Whether your opinion is based on nothing more that a "feeling", a "hunch" or whatever else it doesn't alter your right to have one.

I won't lose any sleep over the fact we don't agree, but as I say I simply cannot understand anyone giving a sh!t what I think either.

Ultimately, there is very little that could happen which would make the most die hard anti, or the most srdent pro change their minds after five seasons so why not just talk about it in a civil way? I'm the one who people accuse of being only concerned about being "proven right", and yet whenever we have a dodgy result the most ardent rafa fans crank up the vitriol every time. You don't see me coming on here and calling everyone a c... each time we win, so I don't see for the life of me why it should be the other way when we don't.

by **The Good Yank** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:07 pm

Go, although not exactly "Grab a torch and Pitchforks", more like a "grab a small flashlight and a broom."

by **lakes10** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:11 pm

I am almost UNDECIDED on this as i have no idea who should be our manager.

But

Times up.

************GO***************

by **bunglemark2** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:13 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:
tonyeh wrote:If Benitez had had his "choice" validated in the Summer, we would have spent 18 million and swapped Finnan for Gareth Barry. I have to ask, what the hell would Barry have really added to our current squad/season?

18 Million for Gareth Barry? Me arse.

As far as I'm concerned Parry (or whoever) was absolutely correct to deny Benitez that kind of money to waste.

The fact is no manager gets every penny for every signing he wants and Benitez is no exception. Another fact is that even if he did, he'd STILL come up up short because his approach to the game is wrong from beginning to end.

You don't even know what you're talking about. Gareth Barry can either be played centrally in the middle, left back, or even left midfield. Benitez is a manager who likes players that can play in at least two positions for tactical reasons. If the deal for Barry had have went through, then I doubt people would be moaning about players like Lucas or Dessena being sh*t because they wouldn't have gotten half the games they have this season due to Barry filling in those roles. I'd take Barry over Dossena and Lucas any day of the week. Dossena would probably not even be here if Barry was signed.

I know exactly what I'm talking about. Gareth Barry is not worth 18 million + defender any day of the week and it was the correct decision to say no to that.

He's Villa's captain. Has been for some time. He's also a pivotal player for them and was easily their player of the season for about three years running. It was Villa's valuation price to put us off going for him for cheaper. It didn't work. Benitez obviously seen something in him that you and I don't, after all, he is a manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world and would know these things. Was Carrick worth his 18 million valuation? Was Hargreaves worth his? Fact is, in this climate, if you want English born international players, you pay more for them.

Hmmmm...Benitez also "saw" something in Dossena and Degen too. That doesn't fill me with any confidence, like much of Mr Benitez' decisions these days.

The fact still remains that there is no way in the world that Barry is worth that money (plus Steve Finnan) and whoever said no to forwarding that money was bang on, imo.

It that kind of decision making that makes me shudder at the thought of Benitez havig full control over transfers.

Jesus Christ, have you not read any of my last posts about Dossena? Dossena has been nothing more than a cover player, and a sh*te one at that. And when has Degan played for us? One game? F*ck sake, he was a Bosman. He cost us nothing. Plus who would you rather have playing as left back or a holding player? Barry or either Lucas or Dossena? As for Finnan, he was a quality right back, but his career was ending. Better to cash in.

Mate, it's not often I disagree with you....but I reckon the Finnan thing was a bad choice. I'd take him - even now - over the current options.
One thing struck me today : there's a wee note in the Irish Times today where it quotes Rafa bemoaning the fact that he hasn't had the same funds at his disposal that some of his contemporaries. But looking at his Net Spend, £100M+ has been wasted...Now, I'm not saying that he's alone in making some duff signings, but looking at the "hits" versus the "misses", I'd have to say his judgement was, let's say, "clouded" at times....
Let's leave that aside though for a moment....
There's no doubt his track record since he came to the club would make many Managers' mouths water....but for a club with the history, and dare I say the "right" to expect success such as Liverpool, you'd have to say his choice of tactics, his substitutions, his pigheadedness or even childishness at times, it's just plain embarrassing and too much of a distraction at times. To be honest, I've a pain in me hoop reading week after week that he's gonna sign or a new contract; no wait a minute, the wind changed, he isn't ! Hang on, the sun's out again....etc....etc...ad infinitum...
The Keane thing was an absolute disgrace, and if it's the case that he didn't want the man in the first place, then act like a grown-up and stop making your point in a bloody childish, public manner and embarrassing yourself and the club.
I hate to say it but I've lost respect for the man, and that for me means it's time to go. I hate to say that 'cos a new guy means new start (from scratch again), means no continuity....and meanwhile the scum motor on ahead..

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:13 pm

s@int wrote:go now

Well put S@int. I'm gonna g for me run with Eff' now and see if I can think of a song of me own. Someone should start a thread where it's about football and the club but you have to make your point by means of a song. If somebody could PM me and explain how you rename a link from http//www.sksjshdsjhddndfhfhdjdjjfffjfjfjffgfgjgjfj and make it into cool song in blue, it'd make it more fun. For me anyway.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:15 pm

All here mick

http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10888

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:21 pm

I hate to say that 'cos a new guy means new start (from scratch again), means no continuity...

Why? Chelsea scrapped Scolari, but they aren't "starting from scratch".

I'm not saying that a change of manager isn't without it's peril, but it's not like taking everyone one and shooting them.

by **redbeergoggles** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:24 pm

I think the older, I get the more tolerance I can afford, the more patient, so fair play to you Mick your resolute in your views and dont present them in an overbearing manner like some posters .

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