Liverpool FC Forum

by **loopyliverpool** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:17 pm

Rafa has paid decent enough money for: Dossena, Babel, Lucas, Reira and Kuyt and they are all ...duds. Has had limited success in the transfer market. He was given £20m for Keane only to employ him weirdly or not at all. Yeah the board are a bunch of shisters but you have to question some of Rafa's signings.

by **Madmax** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:25 pm

The longer yankies stay the more problems that will arise... TBH if we dont win the champs league i think rafa will go anyway. He doesnt like working with the yankies and its obvious he wants certain power of which they will not give him.
For me looks like next season we will have another manager! What a mistake it was to feck of DIC and install these oranges...
Would be perfect to start next season with better owners and a better manager..

well i mean a more happier rafa

Hence better manager

by **Bammo** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:30 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:Rafa has paid decent enough money for: Dossena, Babel, Lucas, Reira and Kuyt and they are all ...duds. Has had limited success in the transfer market. He was given £20m for Keane only to employ him weirdly or not at all. Yeah the board are a bunch of shisters but you have to question some of Rafa's signings.

Can you name me a manager that hasn't made questionable signings?

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:30 pm

This "did he get his first choices" thing always gets trotted out. Was James Milner Martin O'Neill's first choice. Did he scour the football World for a left sided midfielder and come to the conclusion that Milner was the best there is? What about Ashley Young from Watford? First choice out of all the availble people he could think of?

If we're not careful we lose sight of what we are actually talking about. When we are assessing transfers and acumen in the market, it's about maximising the resources at your disposal. Arbeloa was a value buy at 3 million or whatever he was. He's a nice right full-back, probably in the top 10 in the Premiership possibly top 6 and at that money he was a good buy. Dossena wasn't at 7 million because for a full back that's a decent wedge, and unfortunately he isn't very good.

During his time at Anfield Rafa has outspent everyone except Chelsea according to various sources. That's backing enough in anyone's book I would say. I totally respect anyone's opinion if they say "give the man three more years" or whatever else, but it'd be far easier if they said they simply believed in him and his methodology rather than dreaming up these daft excuses all the time.

Anyway a little scenario to consider. What if as seems likely there's hardly any cash in the Summer, is the current manager the best man to wheel and deal with restricted funds, given his recent prowess in the market? I don't think he is. I know many don't agree with me, although for some reason that doesn't make me angry. It doesn't make me think they are w@nkers, not real fans, a fecking disgrace, knee jerkers, fickle or any of that stuff. It just makes me realise that they have more faith in the manager than I have. Also, given my feeling that I think Rafa will eventually sign a new contract, it makes me hope that they are right and I am wrong. We'll see.

by **Dundalk** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:40 pm

This is not a discussion thread, it is a list of members names and were their loyalty lies. Simply reply in this thread if you would like Rafa to GO, STAY or if you are UNDECIDED and you will be added to the list

We will be able to see where everyone stands on this

STAY
Dundalk
Reg
Emerald Red
kazza
redbeergoggles
bavlondon
Bammo
taff
SupitsJonF
fivecups
t-h-o-m
redhayesy
Boocity
NANNY RED
hello_red
GRAHAM01
akumaface
theanfieldgank
dawson99
zarababe
Zidane
GYBS
RedBlood
Sabre
Kash_Mountain
maguskwt
Paul C
KennyisGod....still

GO
bigmick
heimdall
s@int
The Good Yank
lakes10
teamleader1
loopyliverpool
Alex G
aCe'
LegBarnes
Rockthekop
centarec

UNDECIDED
Madmax
Effes
shakey
TheRedsFan
GOAT_2.0
tonyeh
Greavesie
Bermenstein
Raffmaker

by **tonyeh** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:44 pm

If Benitez had had his "choice" validated in the Summer, we would have spent 18 million and swapped Finnan for Gareth Barry. I have to ask, what the hell would Barry have really added to our current squad/season?

18 Million for Gareth Barry? Me arse.

As far as I'm concerned Parry (or whoever) was absolutely correct to deny Benitez that kind of money to waste.

The fact is no manager gets every penny for every signing he wants and Benitez is no exception. Another fact is that even if he did, he'd STILL come up up short because his approach to the game is wrong from beginning to end.

by **Reg** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:48 pm

Stay. Reginaldo The Red.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:50 pm

wat endz u reping

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:52 pm

loopyliverpool wrote:Rafa has paid decent enough money for: Dossena, Babel, Lucas, Reira and Kuyt and they are all ...duds. Has had limited success in the transfer market. He was given £20m for Keane only to employ him weirdly or not at all. Yeah the board are a bunch of shisters but you have to question some of Rafa's signings.

Dossena - cost 7 million and is the current first choice left-back for the current world champions.

Babel - cost 11 million and had a reasonable season in his first year in the EPL, coming off the bench and scoring some important goals. Was a useful impact player. A promising talent in the under 21 Holland and Ajax youth systems. Now plays for the national team. Again, a price you'd expect to pay for "potential" talent. Unfortunately for Babel, he's not making the most of things, but that's not down to Benitez actually signing him, is it? Lazy.

Reira - cost us 8 million. Came on leaps and bounds since his first stay with City and returning to La Liga. Most marked him down as "nothing special" and were left baffled. Obviously Rafa knew a little more than some folk on here and was proven to be a reasonably successful signing so far, bar the past few games where he's looked out of sorts. Still, he was the difference to our flying start of the season. Still needs a bit of time to settle in more IMO. Hardly a dud. We needed a natural left winger, and we got one. End of.

Kuyt - cost 10 million and has easily paid that sum back handsomely. No, I'm not being sarcastic about his looks, I'm talking about the odd "vital" goal he comes up with. Put it this way, he's the reason why we have a season still left as we'd be in the Eufa right now. More than a work horse than a striker, so in that respect he can be considered a "dud" but as a player who contributes to the side, he's been a relative success, though not quite the standard we are after, but like I said, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. We need a 20+ million pound out and out world class striker, not a 10 million pound one. He is utilized for the national team as he is with ours.

Three of the four players are regulars for their respective national sides, so can you say we paid over the odds? With the exception of Babel, perhaps, no. You can't.

Add the combined total of all four players up and you get roughly 36 million for four regular international standard players. Put that into perspective with United who spent 30 million on one player (aged 29) this season, and Man City who spent almost 33 million for Robinho, and you get a sense of perspective. Or at least you should.

Edit - by the way, the fast sale of Keane should suggest that Benitez never wanted him here in the first place. Certainly not for that price.

by **Madmax** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:53 pm

Undecided

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:57 pm

I toddled off to bed last night in a slightly bemused state. I could tell Sabes was spitting feathers, and it seemed I was coming into the crosshairs on his sights so I gave it the flick. Never had a bad word with him before so I wasn't going to start then. As you read through the boards though every week, it's something of a recurring theme with those who stand most firmly behind the manager. I was just wondering this morning what it is that makes people get so angry about the whole situation?

For my part, I simply call it as I see it. The fact that many people disagree with me doesn't particularly wind me up, in fact if anything it's good as it makes for a healthier debate. I still think, infact I'm just about certain of it that the "pro" Rafa camp would hugely outnumber any bunch of people who'd let him go at the end of the season, but that's fine. Liverpool have never been a sacking club, have always been patient with their managers so it's good to see in many ways that the majority of fans still abide by this tradition.

It still doesn't really get to the bottom though of why people who are supportive of Rafa, get so unbelieveably angry on occasions if people disagree with them. Almost always, the discussion will spend time discussing various reasons which are put up which could potentially explain why we aren't where all of us would like to be, and then once those reasons are sensibly debated it reverts back to slag offs, name calling and "not real fan" type putdowns.

Why is somebody else's opinion so important to some people? With the greatest respect to him, the fact that Lando, or Emerald or one of them fellas disagrees with me isn't really that important in my life. I've never met either of em, probably never will and besides, it's just an opinion about a football thing. I don't mean by that I hasten to add that I think their opinion is cr@p or anything like that, I'm simply making the point that it doesn't upset me that they disagree with me, why should it? Equally, I don't understand why anybody who comes on here gets upset if I disagree with them. What does it matter?

Just about all of the opinions on the manager are unproveable either way. One man can say the boardroom shenanigans is having a huge effect, another can say it's minimal. One man can say "ifithadnabeenferRafa'sfirstchoices", another can say it's irrelevent. Why can't we all just accept that people differ and get on with it.

It's even unproveable after the event. If Rafa wins the title this season, who's to say that Mourinho would have won it two years ago (I'm not saying he would have, just demonstrating the point). Equally, if Rafa is here for eight years and never wins it, nobody can categorically say that anybody else could have done better.

Why oh why do people get so hot under the collar about things? Getting annoyed because the team doesn't win, that's sensible. The other stuff isn't.

by **Emerald Red** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:59 pm

tonyeh wrote:If Benitez had had his "choice" validated in the Summer, we would have spent 18 million and swapped Finnan for Gareth Barry. I have to ask, what the hell would Barry have really added to our current squad/season?

18 Million for Gareth Barry? Me arse.

As far as I'm concerned Parry (or whoever) was absolutely correct to deny Benitez that kind of money to waste.

The fact is no manager gets every penny for every signing he wants and Benitez is no exception. Another fact is that even if he did, he'd STILL come up up short because his approach to the game is wrong from beginning to end.

You don't even know what you're talking about. Gareth Barry can either be played centrally in the middle, left back, or even left midfield. Benitez is a manager who likes players that can play in at least two positions for tactical reasons. If the deal for Barry had have went through, then I doubt people would be moaning about players like Lucas or Dessena being sh*t because they wouldn't have gotten half the games they have this season due to Barry filling in those roles. I'd take Barry over Dossena and Lucas any day of the week. Dossena would probably not even be here if Barry was signed.

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:02 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Dossena - cost 7 million and is the current first choice left-back for the current world champions.

Babel - cost 11 million and had a reasonable season in his first year in the EPL, coming off the bench and scoring some important goals. Was a useful impact player. A promising talent in the under 21 Holland and Ajax youth systems. Now plays for the national team. Again, a price you'd expect to pay for "potential" talent. Unfortunately for Babel, he's not making the most of things, but that's not down to Benitez actually signing him, is it? Lazy.

Reira - cost us 8 million. Came on leaps and bounds since his first stay with City and returning to La Liga. Most marked him down as "nothing special" and were left baffled. Obviously Rafa knew a little more than some folk on here and was proven to be a reasonably successful signing so far, bar the past few games where he's looked out of sorts. Still, he was the difference to our flying start of the season. Still needs a bit of time to settle in more IMO. Hardly a dud. We needed a natural left winger, and we got one. End of.

Kuyt - cost 10 million and has easily paid that sum back handsomely. No, I'm not being sarcastic about his looks, I'm talking about the odd "vital" goal he comes up with. Put it this way, he's the reason why we have a season still left as we'd be in the Eufa right now. More than a work horse than a striker, so in that respect he can be considered a "dud" but as a player who contributes to the side, he's been a relative success, though not quite the standard we are after, but like I said, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. We need a 20+ million pound out and out world class striker, not a 10 million pound one. He is utilized for the national team as he is with ours.

Three of the four players are regulars for their respective national sides, so can you say we paid over the odds? With the exception of Babel, perhaps, no. You can't.

Add the combined total of all four players up and you get roughly 36 million for four regular international standard players. Put that into perspective with United who spent 30 million on one player (aged 29) this season, and Man City who spent almost 33 million for Robinho, and you get a sense of perspective. Or at least you should.

Edit - by the way, the fast sale of Keane should suggest that Benitez never wanted him here in the first place. Certainly not for that price.

But Emerald, if they are all as good buys as you suggest, and given the fact that we've spent a comparable amount to Man Utd during Rafa's five year tenure, how do you explain the fact (at least I assume it's a fact) that they have a better squad than us?

by **bigmick** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:04 pm

Go. Not quite a "Go, in the name of God go" type go, but go anyway.

by **heimdall** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:05 pm

Judge wrote:
The_Rock wrote:
Scottbot wrote:I think that most are probably feeling too depressed to post at the moment. I know I am. I've never particularly liked this 'pro's' and 'anti's' talk but it's hardly surprising if those who fully support the manager are subdued this morning. I don't recall seeing too many posts from the likes of Peewee or the Rock (and others who aren't keen on the manager) when we were beating Chelsea to go top of the league.

Are you a 78 yrs old dinosaur suffering from Alzheimers

I am always here in victory and defeat....

65 million yr old one. thats the last time a dinosaur graced this planet

As far as we know anyway :shifty

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