Liverpool FC Forum

by **SupitsJonF** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:16 pm

Selling Xabi, Torres, or Gerrard, regardless of how much money I think would be a step backwards.

Now for the other players, Agger I think is done here. He wants to go, and Milan want him, so get rid of for 12. Maybe thats too much, but no less then 10. Next get rid of Lucas and Dossena, maybe that brings in 6 mil. Thats leaves around 28mil (the 10ish from Keane), and is enough for a good right winger or second striker.

Then, once one of those positions is filled he can get rid of our weird hybrid right winger/strikers (it seems at liverpool if you play one you can play both) Babel, Benayoun, and Kuyt could be sold. However I wouldn't recommend selling all of them, you do need a bench. Probably ship Kuyt and Babel for 16-20, which leaves room for another decent (most likely non english) player.

Worst comes to worse can sell Masch, but I'd prefer not to. Depending on those Reina rumors, if he wants to leave can make some nice money off of him, and a replacement probably would be pretty cheap, but once again a player I'd prefer to keep.

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Course we're all talking about a worse case scenario being that the owners say we have to generate our own funds. That's what comes from supporting a top club like Liverpool, that arrogance and naievety. What about for a fate worse than a fate worse than death, the Owners tell rafa that they need him to CUT the wage bill by 7 million quid a year, AND generate 13 million in transfer fees in order to pay a 20 million quid loan off. Anything he can generate over and above that is his to spend.

Before everyone dismisses it, such things go on regularly at 95% of English football clubs. In many cases, the likes of Torres are simply sold off without any imput from the manager whatsoever. They'd sell him for 70, give Rafa 20 and say "go buy a replacement". It's one of the reasons that elongated building programmes are very hard to make coherent. Players come and go, lose form, get homesick etc and the "project" can stall badly.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:30 pm

Thats what weve been fighting for for months now Mick to get these two out an make sure things like that dont happen. Because it will im sure of it while they are still here there to sneaky an bare faced liars for it not to happen, An thats why i said id take getting rid of them over winning the prem any day.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:44 pm

If the club has no or very little money to dedicate to transfer funds this summer than we should be looking at players in the reserves or out on loan who could become part of the first team squad. Obviously there is some risk involved if we get injuries and the players that come in are not up to the task but it is a risk we will just have to take if the financial situation is that bad.

Lets say for arguments sake we need 22 first team players and another 3 who are our best reserve/youth players. If we could get Darby, Insua, El Zhar, Hammill and Nemeth loan deals in the Championships this season where they were playing regularly would they really do that much worse for us next season than, Degen, Dossena, Kuyt, Babel and N’Gog?

Diego Cavalieri hasn’t looked up to much so far and it seems every summer there are decent Premiership keepers available on Bosmans. Stoke picked up Thomas Sorenson on a free, who would you have rather have as back up to Reina, Sorenson for free or Cavalieri for £3 million.

We would still have to get a right sided midfielder and a striker for the first team but the others could simply be bosmans or cheaper players. My guess is that there are plenty of Premiership quality players who could do a very good back job when required who are available of a free in the summer.

GK: Pepe Reina
GK:

RB: Alvaro Arbeloa
RB: Stephen Darby

LB: Fabio Aurelio
LB: Emiliano Insua

CB: Jamie Carragher
CB: Martin Skrtel
CB: Daniel Agger
CB: Sami Hyypia

RM:
RM: Nabil El Zhar

LM: Albert Riera
LM: Adam Hammill

CM: Steven Gerrard
CM: Xabi Alonso
CM: Javier Mascherano
CM:

ST: Fernando Torres
ST:
ST:
ST: Krisztian Nemeth

This would mean we could sell the below players. I think I have undervalued most of the players and it has come out to £35 million but I think it would be closer to £45 million. Lets say we use £10 million to pay loyalty bonuses, as these players would not have requested transfers. That still leaves £25 -35 million to spend purely generated from selling players who to be perfectly honest are not that good.

Ryan Babel – 8 million
Dirk Kuyt – 7 million
Yossi Benayoun – 5 million
Andrea Dossena – 4 million
Lucas Leiva – 4 million
Diego Cavalieri – 1 million
Andriy Voronin – 1 million
Sebastian Leto – 1 million
Paul Anderson – 500K
Nikolay Mihaylov – 500K
Jack Hobbs – 500K
Damien Plessis – 500K
Charles Itandje – 500K
Jay Spearing – 500K
David Ngog – 500K
Philipp Degen – 500K
Jermaine Pennant – Nothing but free up wages

And who said this management business was hard :eyebrow

by **Fowler_E7** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 pm

john craig wrote:
Cool Hand Luke wrote:To be perfectly our squad is bloated and there are a host of players we could try and sell in order to generate funds, cut wages and make space for youngsters from the academy.

Diego Cavalieri
Philipp Degen
Andrea Dossena
Dirk Kuyt
Jermaine Pennant
Lucas Leiva
Ryan Babel
David Ngog
Damien Plessis
Nabil El Zhar
Charles Itandje
Andriy Voronin
Adam Hammill
Jack Hobbs
Sebastian Leto
Paul Anderson
Nikolay Mihaylov

We've bought a hell of a lot of sh.ite over the last few years when you actually look at that list

10's of Millions have been wasted

by **tubby** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:11 pm

I don't think this situation will come because the owners would know that should we go down that route it would only be a matter of time before we slip out of the top 4. If we got to that point then we are a much less attractive business proposition so the owners would look to sell up.

However hypothetically speaking I would shift Babel and Lukas first. Probably Mascherano too. But if we did that I could see our big players WANTING to leave anyway maybe not at first but after a while so we may as well pack up the :censored:

club.

by **Reg** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:16 pm

NANNY RED wrote:Mick what your saying is my nightmare but im afraid it could become a reality

Nan, 70% of EPL clubs 'WILL' be in that position this summer, without a doubt.

As long as we are all in the same situation then no harm, if we are alone then I agree its a nightmare.

I have full confidence however that Gordon Brown has fuçked everyone and not just LFC.

by **meissler** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:20 pm

Sorry to bring this up, but is Rafa the one that buys players? I'm used to how we do it in the US- you have a GM who buys the players and then a coach who just coaches. In football is the coach a coach and GM basically?

And where do you find out players salaries? Thanks.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:26 pm

Jogador Clube Mensal (€)
Anual (€)
Week (£) monthly yearly weekly
1 Zlatan Ibrahimovic Internazionale 750.000 € 9.000.000 € £166.000
Ricardo Kaka AC Milan 750.000 € 9.000.000 € £166.000
3 Lionel Messi FC Barcelona 700.000 € 8.400.000 € £156.000
4 John Terry Chelsea FC 632.000 € 7.575.000 € £140.000
Frank Lampard Chelsea FC 632.000 € 7.575.000 € £140.000
6 Thierry Henry FC Barcelona 625.000 € 7.500.000 € £138.000
Samuel Eto´o FC Barcelona 625.000 € 7.500.000 € £138.000
8 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United 564.000 € 6.763.000 € £125.000
9 Ronadinho Gaucho AC Milan 542.000 € 6.500.000 € £120.000
Andrei Shevchenko AC Milan 542.000 € 6.500.000 € £120.000
Michael Ballack Chelsea FC 542.000 € 6.500.000 € £120.000
Steven Gerrard Liverpool FC 542.000 € 6.500.000 € £120.000
Rio Ferdinand Manchester United 542.000 € 6.500.000 € £120.000
14 Raul Gonzalez Real Madrid 533.000 € 6.400.000 € £118.000
Ruud Van Nistelrooy Real Madrid 533.000 € 6.400.000 € £118.000
16 Iker Casillas Real Madrid 500.000 € 6.000.000 € £110.000
Frederic Kanouté Sevilha FC 500.000 € 6.000.000 € £110.000
18 Wayne Rooney Manchester United 500.000 € 6.000.000 € £110.000
Michael Owen Newcastle United 500.000 € 6.000.000 € £110.000
20 Fabio Cannavaro Real Madrid 483.000 € 5.800.000 € £107.000
21 Robinho Manchester City 473.000 € 5.680.000 € £105.000
22 Francesco Totti AS Roma 458.000 € 5.500.000 € £101.000
Luca Toni Bayern Munique 458.000 € 5.500.000 € £101.000
24 Arjen Robben Real Madrid 455.000 € 5.460.000 € £100.000
25 Ashley Cole Chelsea FC 450.000 € 5.410.000 € £100.000
Deco Chelsea FC 450.000 € 5.410.000 € £100.000
Fernando Torres Liverpool FC 450.000 € 5.410.000 € £100.000
28 Carlos Tevez Manchester United 428.000 € 5.140.000 € £95.000
29 Adriano Internazionale 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Patrick Vieira Internazionale 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Charles Puyol FC Barcelona 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Andres Iniesta FC Barcelona 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Xavi FC Barcelona 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Sergio Aguero Atletico Madrid 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Gianluigi Buffon Juventus 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
Willy Sagnol Bayern Munique 416.000 € 5.000.000 € £92.000
37 Dimitar Berbatov Manchester United 405.000 € 4.869.000 € £90.000
Andrei Arshavin Arsenal FC 405.000 € 4.869.000 € £90.000
Didier Drogba Chelsea FC 405.000 € 4.869.000 € £90.000
Nicolas Anelka Chelsea FC 405.000 € 4.869.000 € £90.000
Paul Scholes Manchester United 405.000 € 4.869.000 € £90.000
42 Alessandro Del Piero Juventus 400.000 € 4.800.000 € £88.000
Karim Benzema Olympique Lyon 400.000 € 4.800.000 € £88.000
Lúcio Bayern Munique 400.000 € 4.800.000 € £88.000
Frank Ribery Bayern Munique 400.000 € 4.800.000 € £88.000
46 Joe Cole Chelsea FC 383.000 € 4.600.000 € £85.000
Ryan Giggs Manchester United 383.000 € 4.600.000 € £85.000
Xabi Alonso Liverpool FC 383.000 € 4.600.000 € £85.000
Jamie Carragher Liverpool FC 383.000 € 4.600.000 € £85.000
50 David Beckham AC Milan 375.000 € 4.500.000 € £83.000

Juninho Pernanbucano Olympique Lyon 375.000 € 4.500.000 € £83.000

Sidney Govou Olympique Lyon 375.000 € 4.500.000 € £83.000

David Trezeguet Juventus 375.000 € 4.500.000 € £83.000

by **tubby** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:28 pm

Reg wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:Mick what your saying is my nightmare but im afraid it could become a reality

Nan, 70% of EPL clubs 'WILL' be in that position this summer, without a doubt.

As long as we are all in the same situation then no harm, if we are alone then I agree its a nightmare.

I have full confidence however that Gordon Brown has fuçked everyone and not just LFC.

Really? I find that a bit hard to believe. I mean clubs will earn a bigger % more than last season for finishing positions in the league thanks to TV rights money. Why do you think they were all spending big in the Jan window.

by **NANNY RED** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:29 pm

Did that come off the stats board an all :laugh:

Everything else is there

by **bigmick** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:30 pm

meissler wrote:Sorry to bring this up, but is Rafa the one that buys players?

It's quite complicated mate, and rather than derail the thread I'll give you an impartial view of the way iot works in English football.

Yes the manager "buys" the players in the sense that he identifies who it is he wants to fill the gaps in his playing staff. Usually the club gives him a budget which is made up of potential transfer fees and salaries. Generally all managers are asked to work within that.

Occasionally disputes arise however as Chief Exuctives or directors of football who actually negotiate the transfers, spend a larger portion of the transfer kitty on a particular player than the manager would like, which can lead to him potentially being under funded for other more pressing targets.

We arguably had such a situation at the club during the summer.

By and large though, if the signings don't work out it's the manager who is held accountable and that is the case in football throughout the British Isles and I think always has been.

by **Effes** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:34 pm

Pretty grim scenario that Mick, but who's to say that wont happen?

Id get rid of the dross first - Dossena, Babel, Lucas. That would mean what, £3M, £5, £3 = £11M?
I'd rather keep Benayoun, but if we were pushed then he could go.
Why not keep Voronin - depneds what we could get for him.

Absolutley no way sell Reina, there are no rumours - just an article about his Dad's wishful thinking.

Unfortunatly long gone are the days when we signed players from lower leagues or British Isles.

Steve Nicol from Ayr United
Alan Hansen from Partick Thistle
Keegan from Scunthorpe United (He went to win European Player of the Year!)

Just wish we had a scouting system set up to do a similar job now.

Besides those Ive listed, I wouldnt want to let go of anyone else - not the "senior" players anyway.
Just wish we had more quality coming through.

There would have to be some smart moves re. signing players.

Someone like Gudjohnsen would be cheap, and wouldn't demand a starting place all the time.
How about Rafa getting someone non of us know, like when he signed Xabi? Someone who
can play on the right and have that quality.

by **JC_81** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:37 pm

In response to the thread opener - I don't see it as a major problem.

Without any extra cash being made available this summer we should still have some from the sale of Keane and could generate a bit more by selling fringe players and letting a few others go on the cheap to free up wages.

Get rid of Kuyt, Babel and Pennant for a start. We should be able to generate 15 million at least from selling the two Dutch 'wizards'. Spend the money generated on a quality winger and quality forward. By quality I don't mean they have to be 21 year old household names costing 20 million each. A couple of dependable experienced players with a bit of quality would do for me. There are plenty out there and a club with as many scouts on their books as we do should be able to find some. We don't need major reconstruction, but a couple of astute signings.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:42 pm

Personally I would prefer us to buy one top class player and make do and mend in a couple of positions than spread what little money we may have buying 4 players that are probably no better than what we are offloading in an attempt to cover all our bases.

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