Liverpool FC Forum

by **GYBS** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:05 pm

well watching sky this morning abramovich spent 750 mil on chelsea with over 500 mil on players . 80 mil in first season , 159 mil is second season another 80 mil next season . To take chelsea from 3rd to first .

by **heimdall** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:20 pm

taff wrote:But we are second

Or its cost that just to maintain ourselves in the top four. Look at the spending of other clubs trying to break in.

Sensible debate with a rafalite, impossible

by **NANNY RED** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:35 pm

heimdall wrote:
taff wrote:But we are second

Or its cost that just to maintain ourselves in the top four. Look at the spending of other clubs trying to break in.

Sensible debate with a rafalite, impossible

But you cant debate with so much negativity, Im :censored:

at debating on a computer anyway id sooner say it face to face.

An no im not asking for a date Hiemdell :shifty

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:44 pm

taff wrote:But we are second

Or its cost that just to maintain ourselves in the top four. Look at the spending of other clubs trying to break in.

The season is not over yet Taff, we finished 4th in our last full season mate.

Everton £80million gross since 2004/05
Villa £89million gross since 2004/05
Liverpool £196million gross since 2004/5

So we have spent well over double what the clubs trying to break in have done. Remembering of course that we had a much better base with a better squad and players to begin with, so while they had to spend on improving all their squad we could concentrate on spending more on improving in certain areas.

by **Rorschach26** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:01 pm

s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

but weve always had 2 get rid of players 2 get others in

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:03 pm

s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

by **Zidane** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:17 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

I think we can bring in two quality strikers and keep them happy, the problem is that doesn't suit Rafa's style. If he would sub a midfielder for a striker when we're looking for a goal more than likely the 2nd choice man would have more than enough chances but he doesn't. Instead he subs position for position trying to maintain the formation while giving it 'different' options. That along with the fact that he almost never subs out Torres for the other striker causes the 2nd choice to never get his chances.

Like you said the issues come down to Rafa's methods, how he rates players etc etc. A different manager probably wouldn't have trouble keeping two quality strikers happy. He strengthens the squad but hinders it as well.

by **aCe'** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:26 pm

Rorschach26 wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

but weve always had 2 get rid of players 2 get others in

no we havent... we'v mainly sold players because they were sht buys in the first place... whos fault...the managers...

in terms of spending we'v spent more than the mancs in recent times and thats net spending im talking about there so the whole we'v had to sell to buy nonsense doesnt really work nemore..

in trms of the squad and improvement, as has been said a page or so ago, we havent improved enough given how much we'v spent...

if any other manager was in charge for the past 5years or so i truely believe that we would have had a better squad today and would have probably had a stronger, more competitive starting 11...

Besides Reina, Torres, and perhaps Alonso we havent really improved much on our starting lineup....

I'd take the likes of Finnan, Kewell, even Murphy and Cisse ahead of some of the players we play now....

the way i see it, about 8 out of every 10 players rafa buys are either not good enough or simply dont fit in our system (Mascherano, Kuyt, Babel, Keane... add up to a considerable amount of money)

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:32 pm

Zidane wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

I think we can bring in two quality strikers and keep them happy, the problem is that doesn't suit Rafa's style. If he would sub a midfielder for a striker when we're looking for a goal more than likely the 2nd choice man would have more than enough chances but he doesn't. Instead he subs position for position trying to maintain the formation while giving it 'different' options. That along with the fact that he almost never subs out Torres for the other striker causes the 2nd choice to never get his chances.

Like you said the issues come down to Rafa's methods, how he rates players etc etc. A different manager probably wouldn't have trouble keeping two quality strikers happy. He strengthens the squad but hinders it as well.

even if you brought on a 2nd striker for 30 minutes every time we were still chasing a game or subbed him in for torres every time the contest was no longer in doubt, that would still not nearly be enough time to keep a quality striker happy.

I would say we have two of the best strikers in the world in Gerrard and Torres.

by **account deleted by request** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:41 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

I suppose the easiest answer to the striker problem would be to bring in someone who while not of the calibre of Torres was more versatile. Someone who could play well as a striker when called on but would be in regular contention for a place in the team in a different role. I.E. Someone like Babel ....... only better, or someone who offered something completely different like Crouch did.

Personally I would prefer a genuine top quality striker, as I still prefer 4-4-2 although admittedly Torres has made me question it at times.

I do think we should have someone though, as Torres fit or not cannot play every game.

by **aCe'** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:47 pm

JoeTerp wrote:
Zidane wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

I think we can bring in two quality strikers and keep them happy, the problem is that doesn't suit Rafa's style. If he would sub a midfielder for a striker when we're looking for a goal more than likely the 2nd choice man would have more than enough chances but he doesn't. Instead he subs position for position trying to maintain the formation while giving it 'different' options. That along with the fact that he almost never subs out Torres for the other striker causes the 2nd choice to never get his chances.

Like you said the issues come down to Rafa's methods, how he rates players etc etc. A different manager probably wouldn't have trouble keeping two quality strikers happy. He strengthens the squad but hinders it as well.

even if you brought on a 2nd striker for 30 minutes every time we were still chasing a game or subbed him in for torres every time the contest was no longer in doubt, that would still not nearly be enough time to keep a quality striker happy.

I would say we have two of the best strikers in the world in Gerrard and Torres.

gerrard ? gotta be having a laugh there surely ?!

we have one world class striker in Torres and thats about it..
We have Kuyt, N'gog, and Babel who can all be played there (carra and arbeloa can also be put there but they wouldnt be any good) all in all not good enough..

our 2 wingers are nothing special, average to good at best and wouldnt get in most top sides... our 2 fullbacks are solid but nothing special either..again wouldnt get into most top sides...

what sets us apart from the Villas and Evertons of the league is that we have 2 brilliant players in Gerrard and Torres who can both get us out of sht week in week out... we play to our strengths and it pays off most of the time...

by **DanAn** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:57 pm

For me we are three quality players short from being arguably the best team in the world. We need a Targetman, creative wide player and a fullback.

If we got someone like Lahm/Srna that can play both sides at fullback and Silva/Arshavin that can play both wings. We'd be set.

More urgently though we need a quality big man up front but that is willing to spend time on the bench.

by **JoeTerp** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:04 pm

aCe' wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
Zidane wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:
s@int wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:how important is it to have a good squad? Did Rafa's Valencia teams have the best squad in La Liga? If we had a different manager for the last 5 years, do people think we would have a better squad now? A better one than United or Chelsea?

A good squad is very important, even MORE SO when the manager believes so strongly in rotation. I think we would definately have a better balanced squad and probably a stronger squad given how much we have spent and the players that have been available during this time.

Whether it would have been as strong as Chelsea or the mancs squads is perhaps more doubtful, but then again a team is only as strong as its weakest link, and we have certainly spent more than enough to ensure that we should have adequate cover in all positions.

what I am saying is that who cares if we think we have a good squad. I think Rafa would argue that he has a good squad for what he is trying to do. Most people don't rate Kuyt, but he must be doing something out there that is valuable to the club. I am not really sure that Rafa would want someone that most people would probably say is better to play out there.

Also with our striker situation, that is a bit tricky. We normally play with just one up front, so if we buy somebody who can also play as a lone striker, they aren't going to feature a whole lot because that person is not going to be better than Torres. It doesn't seem like you bring in or keep anybody of too much quality in these roles because players want to play.

I think we can bring in two quality strikers and keep them happy, the problem is that doesn't suit Rafa's style. If he would sub a midfielder for a striker when we're looking for a goal more than likely the 2nd choice man would have more than enough chances but he doesn't. Instead he subs position for position trying to maintain the formation while giving it 'different' options. That along with the fact that he almost never subs out Torres for the other striker causes the 2nd choice to never get his chances.

Like you said the issues come down to Rafa's methods, how he rates players etc etc. A different manager probably wouldn't have trouble keeping two quality strikers happy. He strengthens the squad but hinders it as well.

even if you brought on a 2nd striker for 30 minutes every time we were still chasing a game or subbed him in for torres every time the contest was no longer in doubt, that would still not nearly be enough time to keep a quality striker happy.

I would say we have two of the best strikers in the world in Gerrard and Torres.

gerrard ? gotta be having a laugh there surely ?!

we have one world class striker in Torres and thats about it..
We have Kuyt, N'gog, and Babel who can all be played there (carra and arbeloa can also be put there but they wouldnt be any good) all in all not good enough..

our 2 wingers are nothing special, average to good at best and wouldnt get in most top sides... our 2 fullbacks are solid but nothing special either..again wouldnt get into most top sides...

what sets us apart from the Villas and Evertons of the league is that we have 2 brilliant players in Gerrard and Torres who can both get us out of sht week in week out... we play to our strengths and it pays off most of the time...

Gerrard maybe isn't and out and out striker, but he is surely Nando's attacking partner.

by **bigmick** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:27 am

He is Joe you're quite right. Probably next season assuming Rafa is still the manager but really whoever is doing the job, we are very likely going to play 4-5-1 for the forseeable I should think. Given our financial plight, if such a player exists I'd have a look for somebody who can play up top as the one, or alternatively replace Gerrard as well. I say this because I think I'm right in saying we don't have a replacement for either at the moment. I say that not as a negative comment btw, I just genuinely believe we haven't, please correct me if I'm wrong/call me c... for having an opinion and voicing it or whatever.

I reckon someone like Christiano Ronaldo could do it, but he's hardly a likely signing. Rooney could do it as well, but ditto. Robin Van Persie probably could, and he might be more of a shout (although he wouldn't be cheap).

I think that's probably the answer though. Half of S@ints creative second striker, but who can also fill in for Gerrard and Torres if needs be as well. There's no doubt some players abroad who could do it, but your Arshavinns of this World are probably too specialist in their second striker roles to cut it. Arshavin could do Gerrards job, but not Torres's.

That's what I'd be on the lookout for anyway. because at the moment if either Torres or Gerrard get injured at any time, we're fecked.

by **loopyliverpool** » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:37 pm

gerrard ? gotta be having a laugh there surely ?!

we have one world class striker in Torres and thats about it..
We have Kuyt, N'gog, and Babel who can all be played there (carra and arbeloa can also be put there but they wouldnt be any good) all in all not good enough..

our 2 wingers are nothing special, average to good at best and wouldnt get in most top sides... our 2 fullbacks are solid but nothing special either..again wouldnt get into most top sides...

what sets us apart from the Villas and Evertons of the league is that we have 2 brilliant players in Gerrard and Torres who can both get us out of sht week in week out... we play to our strengths and it pays off most of the time...

Totally agree with you aCe! What sets those horrible Mancs in a class of there own is quality full backs and wingers as first choice and cover. When you think about ours they are average to good, not world class. We could do with players who can dribble, get to the bye-line and cross a decent ball in. This is seriously lacking in our team. We are excellent up to the opposition's penalty area and then we become quite predictable, either becoming narrow or crossing from deep which is easier to defend against. Getting to the bye-line and crossing creates much better attacking options.

Liverpool FC Forum

The squad. - How good is it?

Who is online